Water in Encapsulated Keel

Kept finding a small puddle of water in the bilge area and just found it's been seeping out from the encapsulated keel. I cut a hole in the bilge floor and it's filled solid with lead chucks and pellets, with fresh water mixed in right up to the top. So I drilled a 1/4" hole in the bottom of the keel and gallons of water drained out. Really glad I found this and was able to drain the water, but need some suggestions on how to dry it out. I was thinking to pour some acetone in there and let it drain a few times. Anyone else have another solution? Heat, a vacuum, etc? Or just let it dry by itself? I wont be launching the boat for another year so it can bake over the summer.

Why would it be "fresh water"?

I would be careful with acetone due to its volatility. Instead I think that I would drill a series of holes in the bottom of the keel. Tap the holes so you can hook up a manifold of hoses and then put suction on it with a shop vac. Of course you will need a source for air to get into the hollow keel. The hole that you have drilled already will be one source but you may have to drill a couple more and vary opening the holes over time to let the air into different areas of the keel. There is a company that uses this process in cored hulls to dry the coring out. Buy Ridgid shop vacs since they have a lifetime warranty and you may burn out a couple of shop vacs depending on how long it takes to dry it out. Then you need to find out how the water got into the keel and fix that. I had a hollow keel on a previous boat that had water in it, boy did that water stink. And the smell would go through the fiberglass into the cabin. I finally cut the top out to open up the keel so I could clean it out and the smell went away.

Greetings,
Mr. B. I agree with Mr. C. As well as being volatile, acetone may damage the FRP of the keel. IF you're set on flushing with any liquid, alcohol may be a somewhat better choice. More holes, tapped for a manifold and future plugs, then ventilation. Find that leak.

While I have no direct experience, I find it hard to believe that you can effectively flush out water from a keel with ethanol (definitely better than acetone). Surely, whatever you try to flush with will simply drop to the lowest point of the keel and run out the drain holes, unless you intend to completely fill the keel with ethanol to absorb residual water?
Still not clear about the "fresh water" or was this simply a misstatement?

I would make a small hole in the keel and suck air through it. I would put a closed bucket between the vacuum pump and the keel, and in that bucket I would put a battery powered humidity meter. I would suck air through there until the humidity dropped to normal.

Greetings,
Mr. C. Yup. A complete fill up and drain with alcohol would be the only viable way of flushing IF Mr. B is set on doing so. It would still mean ventilating for a goodly period of time to dry further THEN a complete sealing.



I thought Huntington NY was on one of the Great Lakes but nope-Long Island so the freshwater comment is a question for me as well. Seepage from rain perhaps?


Edit: Mr. MY. That might take years IMO. Water has a fairly low vapor pressure.

You might also consider using a compressor and blowing the water out under pressure?

Plus, another question is this. Once you drain the water (thoroughly) do you even really need to dry the lead shot etc? Presumably the keel is normally in water on the outside, so why should it matter if it is damp on the inside?

It was definitely fresh water. Although I said the keel is encapsulated, I believe water can get into the keel area from the bow inside the forward cabin. It’s an old boat and new to me. My guess is at some point in its life, water leaked into the cabin and drained aft into the keel. Will avoid acetone...just thought it would help dry things out.

Perhaps a stupid question (??) but is it possible that since the water is really fresh, it was actually intentionally used to increase keel ballast by filling all voids around shot etc?. Per previous comments, if water is fresh and does not stink, then it presumably has not been doing any harm to interior of keel.

Greetings,
Mr. C. That's an excellent point (post #8). What difference does it make if the shot is still damp although any water in there may cause problems if it freezes...

Good point about the freezing but then why no problem to date?

Greetings,
Mr. C. Maybe it has frozen but caused no damage yet. One option may be to just leave it as is and thread the existing drain hole, put in a plug and drain every fall.

Comodave said:

...Buy Ridgid shop vacs since they have a lifetime warranty and you may burn out a couple of shop vacs depending on how long it takes to dry it out..

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We dried a 2'x6' section of cored hull using a shop vac. We made a manifold out of plastic tubing and duct taped it to the hull where we drilled some holes. It look about 2 weeks but the core area passed a surveys moisture meter after and this was in Seattle.

If you can seal it up well enough, an A/C system vacuum pump (of reasonable size) and a water trap will do a better job of causing water to evaporate than a shop vac could ever dream of, as you'll be able to build enough vacuum to boil water at room temperature or a little above (given good enough sealing). A shop vac could be useful to pull enough vacuum to pull some warm, dry air through the space, however.

The reason you want to get the water out is smell. Our Trojan had a hollow keel that over the years got filled with fresh water. It stunk worse than a black water tank. The smell would go through the fiberglass and was noticeable before I drilled the hole in the top of the hollow keel. Once I drilled a hole the smell was horrible. A shop vac will move enough air to get it to dry out. What you want is air flow, not necessary a lot of inches of vacuum.

rslifkin said:

If you can seal it up well enough, an A/C system vacuum pump (of reasonable size) and a water trap will do a better job of causing water to evaporate than a shop vac could ever dream of, as you'll be able to build enough vacuum to boil water at room temperature or a little above (given good enough sealing). A shop vac could be useful to pull enough vacuum to pull some warm, dry air through the space, however.

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You'll never get enough vacuum do do any good. The vapor pressure of water at reasonably temperatures is low, and the evaporation rate will not get very high until you approach very high vacuums - more than you are likely to get in something that has had water leak in somewhere. The key is air circulation, however you can get it - suck out or blow in. The same is true of an alcohol mix - it does not increase the evaporation rate much unless the added liquid has a very low boiling point. Ether would be ideal but it highly flammable.

I think if you have some time you could dry that out with two small holes in the bottom of the keel, one at the extreme forward end, one at the extreme aft. Blow a small volume of air in each (or one at a time) and let it escape through the bilge hole. It would help to have an air dryer on the compressor. Alternatively suck through the bilge hole, here it would help to tent the keel and run a dehumidifier in the tented space so dry air is sucked in.

If you are using a shop vac, make sure there are enough leaks to allow some airflow through the motor. Most shop vacs depend on air flow to cool the motor, if you plug or nearly plug the hose they will overheat fairly quickly (no air to the motor).

(Some) Grand Banks have hollow keels. There is a hose that sticks out of the floor of the bilge. I just hooked my drill pump up to the hose and pumped it out. It doesn't matter if its wet in there, or at least it didn't on my boat. I discovered there was a screw or two missing (steady RT) for the stainless strip on the stem and underway, water would be pushed up and into the holes and the keel would fill. I fixed the holes and checked the keel each year. Just let it drain and figure out where the leak is and then relax. Drying it is a waste of time. Besides, burning out shop vacs and pouring ethanol in there? Then it leaks again? I can think of a much better use for ethanol, suitable for boaters too.

I still do not understand how "fresh water " gets into the keel. I kind of get how on a sail boat this might happen with rain water leaking down the mast nito the bilge and beyond, but on a power boat??

Many boats like that have a drain plug either in the side or end of the keel, for just the issue you are dealing with. Usually a brass plug in a fitting. I have seen them with so many layers of paint that if you did not know where it was, you would never find them. You might want to check before drilling any more hole. If not then I would suggest inserting a drain plug before you finish and splash the boat. Will make next time so much easier.

Personally have no experience with this. But if it was me I would plug any holes you have made and fill keel back up with soap and water and try to get a low pressure seal with valve. Possibly then you can locate keel delam by moisture or bubbles before any attempt of drying keel.

Need to find the problem first!

Fresh water can find its way into the boat from anchor locker deck hole, leaks in hand rails, engine compartment vents, unnoticed leak if on city water, condensation, leaks in plumbing drain fittings and more depending on the boat.


Granted all are pretty minor but can add up.


If its gallons and fairly rapid, hard to believe just fresh water.

Ps I believe he said his incapsulated keel which is full of lead beads. It should be air tight or have a type of liquid possibly to keep air out which would prevent corrosion.
A bilge is just a bilge to catch what you have noted above like water leaks, and or contain any hazardous spill one may have.
The other thing mentioned he drilled a hole in the bilge.

Just my 2 cents...

Using a shop vac on a confined area you rinsed out with a voluble liquid? Keep all your fire extinguishers near-by.
My 1989 N46 kept the FW in the keel. Material of the FW tank I forgot. Had a major side benefit of being used for ballast

Okydowky said:

Personally have no experience with this. But if it was me I would plug any holes you have made and fill keel back up with soap and water and try to get a low pressure seal with valve. Possibly then you can locate keel delam by moisture or bubbles before any attempt of drying keel.

Need to find the problem first!

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That is a good suggestion. Then proceed with drying it out and repair the leaks.

Thank you all for the great replies! I’m thinking I won’t go crazy trying to dry things out because it probably won’t hurt to have a little dampness in there. Based on your feedback, this is what I‘m thinking:
First pour a few gallons of pink antifreeze into the keel and let it drain out. That way if any liquid remains at least it won’t freeze.
Next is to find the source of the leak and attempt to seal it up. Unfortunately, I can’t see anything obvious so this may not be easy. But as long as water doesn’t fill up beyond the pocket in the deepest part of the keel at the stern where the bilge pump is, there should be no way for water to leak in.
I’ll drill one more ¼” drain hole in the forward part of the keel and using my shop vac exhaust outlet (which works great to drain my pool pipes), seal the hose around the hole in the bilge, and blow forced air through there to get some circulation and hopefully drain any remaining liquid. Maybe do that a few times on dry days over the summer.
Finally I’ll seal everything up and put a drain plug on the side of the keel and check it after the first season in the water. If no water drains out, I should be good.

Chrisjs said:

I still do not understand how "fresh water " gets into the keel. I kind of get how on a sail boat this might happen with rain water leaking down the mast nito the bilge and beyond, but on a power boat??

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I had water in my keel on my Albin. Not discovered during the purchase survey.
I drilled and tapped a drain under the point of the keel where the water was leaking out. Installed it before the boat was launched that spring, and removed every haul out for about 4 years when nothing else came out.


I was able to locate the source of the leak. It was from oem installed bilge pumps. One screw on each pump penetrated the bilge right at the low point.
It was an easy fix to glass up all the holes. I mounted the bilge pumps from the top so no more possible leaks from that cause.

Don’t overthink this issue, it really doesn’t need all that effort to get it dry...mine was never bone dry and she is still chugging about out there 12 years later. I see her most summers.

Beeliner said:

Kept finding a small puddle of water in the bilge area and just found it's been seeping out from the encapsulated keel. I cut a hole in the bilge floor and it's filled solid with lead chucks and pellets, with fresh water mixed in right up to the top. So I drilled a 1/4" hole in the bottom of the keel and gallons of water drained out. Really glad I found this and was able to drain the water, but need some suggestions on how to dry it out. I was thinking to pour some acetone in there and let it drain a few times. Anyone else have another solution? Heat, a vacuum, etc? Or just let it dry by itself? I wont be launching the boat for another year so it can bake over the summer.

Click to expand...

Once she’s blocked water in the keel would escape from a fracture or point of leakage- maybe seal that drain hole and fill ‘er up from the inside: No leak at the keel would be good news and you could focus elsewhere

Water also comes out where it goes in....

Beeliner said:

Kept finding a small puddle of water in the bilge area and just found it's been seeping out from the encapsulated keel. I cut a hole in the bilge floor and it's filled solid with lead chucks and pellets, with fresh water mixed in right up to the top. So I drilled a 1/4" hole in the bottom of the keel and gallons of water drained out. Really glad I found this and was able to drain the water, but need some suggestions on how to dry it out. I was thinking to pour some acetone in there and let it drain a few times. Anyone else have another solution? Heat, a vacuum, etc? Or just let it dry by itself? I wont be launching the boat for another year so it can bake over the summer.

Click to expand...

Once she’s blocked water in the keel would escape from a fracture or point of leakage- maybe seal that drain hole and fill ‘er up from the inside: No leak at the keel would be good news and you could focus elsewhere