estimated time and route

Good day all. I'm new to the forum and very interested in the trawler lifestyle. I've pondered upon many trawlers but the majority of them are in florida. I'm just wondering how long it would take to cruise a trawler from Palmetto Florida to St. Catharines Ontario Canada? Also the route I would have to take. I'm hoping some of you have taken the journey up north and can shed some light as to what to expect. Thx

Greetings,
Welcome Mr. rayalbel. What to expect????? Bridge openings that you may have to wait for. Weather related delays-yes, even on the ICW. Height restrictions on fixed bridges on the Erie canal (21' if I remember correctly). Running aground (if you haven't already you will someday-buy tow insurance). Possible mechanical failures-carry spares or know where to get them quickly. DO NOT have a timetable of ANY SORT!!!!!!!!!! Time is relative. Some days you may make 70 miles, others, 25 miles, and some 0 miles. Did I mention, do not have a timetable????

rayalbel said:

Good day all. I'm new to the forum and very interested in the trawler lifestyle. I've pondered upon many trawlers but the majority of them are in florida. I'm just wondering how long it would take to cruise a trawler from Palmetto Florida to St. Catharines Ontario Canada? Also the route I would have to take. I'm hoping some of you have taken the journey up north and can shed some light as to what to expect. Thx

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A year ago it took me about 20 days to come up the ICW from Ft Lauderdale, Fl to Cape May, NJ. I would estimate another 6-10 days up to Ontario but having never done the Erie Canal....that's just a wild guess. and saying 6-8 knots would be average.

psneeld said:

A year ago it took me about 20 days to come up the ICW from Ft Lauderdale, Fl to Cape May, NJ.

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How much of that time was actually running, as opposed to down time due to the delays mentioned by RT (love your hair)? How often did you go "outside"?
KJ

Greetings,
Thanks Mr. KJ my electrician does it for me.

The ICW to New Jersey then out to the Hudson then the Erie to the Oswego then Lake Ontario home. Unless you can clear 15 ft then the Erie to the Welland. It would take me at least 6 months.

I am a retired research boat captain who has done a number of delivery trips along this route in the past few years. In my experience a good hard days work on the inside is 75 to at most 100 miles. You could expect twice that off shore as a general rule. Off the top of my head, I would allow 30 days for the trip, includeing weather but excludeing any breakdowns. If you want to ENJOY the trip you should allow twice the time. IMHO. Bill

boatdriver47 said:

I am a retired research boat captain who has done a number of delivery trips along this route in the past few years. In my experience a good hard days work on the inside is 75 to at most 100 miles. You could expect twice that off shore as a general rule. Off the top of my head, I would allow 30 days for the trip, includeing weather but excludeing any breakdowns. If you want to ENJOY the trip you should allow twice the time. IMHO. Bill

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I've done it lots also...sail and power...slow and fast...inside and outside...

All depends on the boat and time of year...

KJ said:

How much of that time was actually running, as opposed to down time due to the delays mentioned by RT (love your hair)? How often did you go "outside"?
KJ

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I'd have to check my log....but ran it kinda like a delivery... Sunup to sundown...the legs between Ft Laud and Charleston, SC were in late Jan so the days weren't long and I pushed the boat to make time. tried to Average 8 knots. Ran outside to Ft Pierce.first day..long but had a good Gulf stream push up to 10 kts sometimes..

No lost days till Charleston where I dry docked the boat for 2 months till continuing to Jersey. From Charleston...I slowed a bit to 6-7 knots to improve fuel economy...ran outside from Wrightsville Bch. NC to Beaufort, NC. Lost 1/2 day in Bellhaven, NC due to a bad frontal passage. The Lost anther day due Northeast cnditions when we ran the Chesapeake instead of coastal Norfolk to NJ. One day in the Chessie was 800 AM to 200 AM from Norfolk to Herrington harbor...just to make time.

All in all..tring to push a 6-8 knot boat 100 miles a day is a struggle. 80 pretty easy and 75 NM is a good goal if trying to make time.Sometimes you have to push if you want to make marinas..but if happy with anchoring...then go till you have to have happy hour!

100 miles is a very long day in a 6 or 7 kt boat. Even a 70 mile day will seem long if you do a couple of them back to back. Not to mention that I'd be really nervous about getting on a new to me boat and setting out on that long a trip with an agenda. One thing that really doesn't belong on a pleasure boat is a rigid agenda.

bobofthenorth said:

100 miles is a very long day in a 6 or 7 kt boat. Even a 70 mile day will seem long if you do a couple of them back to back. Not to mention that I'd be really nervous about getting on a new to me boat and setting out on that long a trip with an agenda. One thing that really doesn't belong on a pleasure boat is a rigid agenda.

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True...but that's the life of a delivery captain so it wasn't that big of a deal for me. I hadn't even sea trialed the boat except for a 10 minute ride the day I went to look at her. turns out the head systems were on their last legs...but the engine was only 18 months old with 2-400 hours on her..

That would be my point - doing that trip as a delivery captain means that there's a paycheque waiting at the end of the trip. Doing it as a (new) pleasure boat owner means that there might very well be a divorce waiting at the end of the trip.

just out of curiosity, how much would a boat captain cost to deliver say a 36ft ...Florida to lake ontario....ball park.

rayalbel said:

just out of curiosity, how much would a boat captain cost to deliver say a 36ft ...Florida to lake ontario....ball park.

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A captain worth the money is around 300 a day plus around 100 for each crew (although some Capts will get a better deal on crew if you allow them to bring friends or family (and your insurance allows it). Plus all travel expenses...some will want per diem on top of their pay (for smaller boats like a 36 and $300/day for that long of a trip I would just go $300/day no per diem). Plus you pay fuel, marinas, repairs even if the Capt does them.

so 25 days minimum - $7500 Capt only (many will want a paid crewman)
$2000 Marinas
$2000 Fuel
$ 500 Travel (ballpark)
Total $12,000 (minimum I would guess and it could easily be another 25% for a total of $15,000

(I would suggest shipping a 36 footer)

The alternative is if you go and hire someone to "guide you" like I did on my first delivery...but even if you saved half on the Capt...it's still a $10,000 trip unless you press hard and anchor out a lot.

Holy crap...I think I just found out what I want to be when I grow up lol...wow. Looks like shipping it is. Even then, it must be a pretty penny as well to ship.

I've done the trip from NY to Buffalo on the Erie Canal and it took us 10 days. What time of year were you planning on leaving? Are you going to keep the vessel at HHC Marine Dockyard or LaSalle Park?

Cheers

Call Boat Transport out of Mendon, Mass. They move boats N and S all the time and are quite reasonable. Also try Andrews Trucking out of St. David's Ont for quote.

Salty Bear...home port will be at the Beacon Harbour out of St. Catharines. I'm hoping we will find a trawler and have her home around July or Aug. We liked the layout of the Albins and Marine Trader. We stumbled upon an Albin palm beach a couple of days ago. Any thoughts on the Palm?

Did you get pics? Of either vessel? The Albins are good, I like the Marine Traders.

I know where the Beacon Marina is. Its a nice facility. Have you been boating in the area for a while?

How would the cost of trucking a boat between the OP's two locations compare to the cost of running the boat up on its own hull? In 1998 when we bought our GB the cost to truck the boat from Alameda, CA to Puget Sound was about $4,000, the same as it would have cost to hire a delivery crew. So we trucked it which was much faster (3 days) and made our insurance company a lot happier.

One thing in our favor was that because of the type of trailer used the flying bridge did not have to be removed from the boat. A larger model GB would have required the flying bridge to be removed and then replaced at the destination, something that would have added a great deal more cost to the trucking option.

With luck on the weather a month should do IF youn run delivery style.

However there are lots of places like St Augustine or Charlston that deserve a day or two.

With some noodeling all the bridge , lock restrictions are posted on line , so a plan will get you much further each day.

Our planning consists of finding suitable anchorages at say , 50 , 60 and even 75 miles apart a few days in advance.

The Marina to marina cruisers have it easier (if the boat is not outsized) as there are loads of buck a foot to $4.00 a foot places to overnight.

From ACY to NYC along the N Jersey shore is the only place along shore , in the actual ocean is required for most.

With good weather the jump from Norfolk to ACY or even NYC can easily be done.

You should have enough hours on the boat to begin to trust it by then.

Good cruising , but do STOP along the way , its more fun.

Do the delivery yourself if you value the boat , most "delivery crews " are beyond brutal.

FF

rayalbel said:

Salty Bear...home port will be at the Beacon Harbour out of St. Catharines. I'm hoping we will find a trawler and have her home around July or Aug. We liked the layout of the Albins and Marine Trader. We stumbled upon an Albin palm beach a couple of days ago. Any thoughts on the Palm?

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Be wary of those Taiwan boats fron the 80's if they lived in tropical waters their whole life and stayed in the water year round.

My Albin had pretty bad hydrolysis issues and I'm in the process of grinding off the bottom and relaminating. I'm good with glasswork but a marina might charge $15-$30,000 to do it right (plus the boats ut of the water a couple months to over a year depending how they do it. Don't even talk to people about blisters....if that's what they are talking about first...before they use the word hydrolysis...I'm gonna speculate that they have read some...but not enough on the subject. You ALWAYS have hydrolysis going on...whether you have blisters or not depends.

Don't think that a surveyor will catch much more than the obvious blisters because without extended drying or coring ...a moisture meter isn't very accurate. The more reading I do...the more coring the hull is the only way to find out for sure how bad the damage can be and even then...I have good spots and spots 6 laminations of roving deep that were bad.

Yes..I'm sure some...maybe even many delivery captains can be tough on a boat...but some are better than owners because they care for it better long the way, they can head off major issues before the owner might recognize them...they can fix/jury rig systems so the trip can be completed without expensive on the road repairs...etc...etc.. It just takes a bit to find the right one.

FF is sorta correct about the NJ ICW...it's a PIA for time and boats drawing 4 feet or more. It can be done at high tide most of the way without any more concern than the rest of the ICW. If you do it because you want to or need to for weather...call your assistance tower in the area and get very specific instructions for their stretch of the NJ ICW. I have notated many a cruisers chart for bad areas along most of the NJ ICW over a beer in their saloon.

Another option is to make the trip, or segments of it, yourself but make a priceless learning experience out of it by hireing a captain to do an "assisted voyage" with training. If you are new to this type of boating this might work better for your insurance company, as well.

What a wonderful opportunity for a lifetime cruise and to get to know your boat in the relative comfort and safety of the ICW! I get excited just thinking about it.

Seeing as how you're presumably new to trawlering, I'd suggest the GICW to Ft Myers, across the Okeechobee Waterway, then up the AICW. If you're comfortable enough then for an offshore jaunt, run outside to NYC, then up the Hudson to Albany and over to Oswego. I've covered all those miles and it can be a relaxing trip with proper planning. There's a lot to learn about locks, bridges, anchoring etc. but that's 1/2 the fun.

No one has mentioned the inland route...not sure if it's still open?

Like others have noted - a good rule of thumb is to plan about 75 miles per day and be prepared to cut it short or go longer. The only time we tie up to anything is to buy fuel, get stores, pumpout or lock thru - we never stay at Marinas.

Check out:
https://activecaptain.com/X.php
for valuable firsthand information.

Oh, and get yourself an unlimited towing policy before you head out.

"FF is sorta correct about the NJ ICW...it's a PIA for time and boats drawing 4 feet or more. It can be done at high tide most of the way without any more concern than the rest of the ICW."


That is if you can accomodate the large number of low bridges inside NJ that DO NOT OPEN!

We ran LUCY ( 50 loa) inside NJ after ACY , but under 4 ft draft and 10ft 6 inch air draft allowed the trip.

PLAN AHEAD!!!

FF

FF said:

"FF is sorta correct about the NJ ICW...it's a PIA for time and boats drawing 4 feet or more. It can be done at high tide most of the way without any more concern than the rest of the ICW."


That is if you can accomodate the large number of low bridges inside NJ that DO NOT OPEN!

We ran LUCY ( 50 loa) inside NJ after ACY , but under 4 ft draft and 10ft 6 inch air draft allowed the trip.

PLAN AHEAD!!!

FF

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The only problem bridge for the average small to medium powerboat/trawler without a tuna tower/tall mast is the Longport bridge at 25 feet..I'm not sure if they reopened the NJICW back to the original path (behind that bridge)...it shows on the ud to date charts as open...but that's one section I haven't run in about 8 years. The rest of the bridges that don't open (4 of them) are 35 feet.

Good advice about planning ahead for any trip...too many boaters rely on old knowledge and get trapped by construction/dredging, shoaling, lack of fuel, etc..etc...

I have done the trip and that is way too long of a trip to have a schedule. How about a wait of 6 days at Barnegat Light, NJ for weather and another 6 days at Oswego, NY for weather and how many other times waiting just one day for weather or whatever.
The most dangerious thing to have on a boat is a schedule. Period.
CCC

My canadian trucker charged me $2.00 / per mile for my last boat ... but that was back in 1997... I thought I heard $3.00 / mile lately ... anyway - the cheapest way to get a boat from point A to B is usually to truck it.

I would persue that unless you want to enjoy a sweet slow poke