Paint vs gelcoat.

After a couple months of prep, my 50-year old Willard 36 is about to get repainted. I had planned on AlexSeal. Painter at the yard just finished re-gelcoating a boat and it looks great. He suggested it might be more durable. My impression is gelcoat is more porous and needs more maintenance (wax). Boat will spend foreseeable future in tropics and Florida.

Thoughts?

Seems to be regaining favor...just depends on the guy making the recommendation.


A good gel coat with minimal effort can look great after 30+ years...even longer.


Good paint...10-20 years????

I painted with Alexseal 6 years ago and it still looks new and gets compliments. I've done no maintenance to it. The yard said that Alexseal is more repairable than the competition, but I can't speak to that. A bit of trivia...Hatteras boats are painted at the factory rather than gel coated.

Actually Hatteras boats are gel coated and then painted. They still use gel coat to get the smooth surface.

I'll bet you a beer on that, Dave.

Ken E. said:

I'll bet you a beer on that, Dave.

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Well, since I don’t drink beer, I will let you off that bet. Here is an excerpt from the Hatteras web site.


One of the last stops that a yacht under construction at our New Bern factory makes is the Paint Shop—and now it’s the GT65 Carolina’s turn. She’s in for a lot more than just a quick coat of paint, however. At Hatteras Yachts, achieving a beautiful, glass-smooth finish involves ten steps utilizing six different materials and takes a crew of up to twenty workers more than ten days to complete.



The first step in the finishing process is to dewax the hull by stripping and sanding its original gelcoat exterior. All surfaces are coated with a blue dye, which helps the paint crew to identify any high or low spots and eliminate them.


Note where it says “its original gelcoat exterior”.

Mea Culpa. My surveyor friend has it wrong so it seems.

No problem, you know you can’t trust surveyors...

I had heard Hatt painted their new boats many years ago. Part of my bias towards paint vs gelcoat. Other thoughts?

BTW - I am a beer drinker. I'll take Dave's beer.

Ha....I'll buy you a beer anyway. I think my confusion was that the boats are actually first gel coated, faired and then are painted as the last step. I thought they were just faired, painted and shipped.

No they need the gelcoat to smooth the hull and also to get it to release from the mold. But they must love paint because they spend a butt load of money painting a brand new boat, 20 workers for days and days...

Weebles, how much is the cost difference between paint and gelcoat ? If it last twice as long, but costs twice as much, its a wash.

yep, Hat paints their boats with AkexSeal.

I can't vote on this myself, I can only tell you what a friend said to me while I was buffing out our gel coat. He owns a 39' Blackfin which he had painted several times in his 25+ years of ownership. He told me to take the time to take care of the gel goat now that it is shiny, because paint is a constant battle of sanding and repainting sections. He wishes he would of had the option to gel coat it years ago. I have no idea what paint he used. I can tell you that the gel coat on our 86 NT shined up beautifully and it has been neglected for many many years.

I've had both and thought gelcoat best until present Mainship w optional painted hull. I now prefer painted.
Rationale...
Gelcoat changes color with aging and hard to match and I wouldn't consider patching / matching a DIY job
Painted (MS used Awlcraft) did DIY spot repair / repaint and color match after 10 yrs was exceptional even close up.
Helped a friend paint over a color gelcoat hull stripe.
We used Awlcraft same time I did my repair. He clear coated over it and I think that may be the ultimate.

Well, I traded notes with a marine expert who's opinion I trust. Seems Gelcoat is best when used in a mold with resin applied before it's fully cured to form a stout chemical bond. When Gelcoat is painted-on, the chemical bond is not as strong, and air drying makes it more porous. Compared to paint, it is easy to apply too thick, is brittle, and prone to cracking in flex-areas such as around hinges.

I will be painting the boat, not gelcoating.

Peter

I agree.

The marine professional to whom I alluded was Steve D'Antonio. I cannot adequately express my gratitude to Steve and many others like him. I have been humbled by their generosity and openness, especially in these days where novice cruisers won't give the time of day without a Patreon donation. I've met so many wonderful people in my ongoing refit (okay, 'met' is really correspondence by phone or email).

Steve was kind enough to allow me to quote his email - see below. Note the link at the end of the cut/paste text below on AwlGrip vs AwlCraft paint.

Thanks to all - very helpful discussion for me.

"While I continue to encounter this, gelcoat vs. paint, question from time to time, it continues to surprise me. In short, other than for repairs, gelcoat is best suited for use in a mold, i.e. it is applied to the inside of a female mold first, then fiberglass fabric and resin are applied on top of it, before the gelcoat is fully cured, thereby creating a very tenacious, chemical bond between the two.

Applying gelcoat, in paint-like fashion, for deck, cabin or whole hull applications, after the fact, has two results. One, it does not achieve a chemical bond with the underlying substrate. Two, when gelcoat cures while exposed to air, it becomes porous. Furthermore, gelcoat tends to be somewhat brittle, much more brittle than paint, so if it is applied too heavily, especially over an area that might flex, adjacent to a hinge or cleat for instance, it tends to crack. Controlling gelcoat thickness can be challenging, especially when used in this manner. None of these features are desirable. Its one saving grace is the ability to repair application defects such as runs, dust or insect entrapment, all of which can be sanded or buffed out. Beyond that, there’s virtually no benefit to using gelcoat as opposed to two part polyurethane (PU) paint, and the latter is available in chemistries that also allow for repairs. I find that those who are willing to spray entire hulls in gelcoat do so because they understand the product, its strengths and weaknesses, and it can be sanded and buffed to near-perfection. Still, those reasons are not good enough in my opinion to choose it over poly-urethane, PU paint is the preferred approach by far.

It’s worth noting, typically, PU paint also does not achieve a chemical bond with its substrate, however, its ability to adhere tenaciously to properly profiled surfaces is considerable, and in my estimation it does so more effectively than gelcoat.

When it comes to two part paint, there are a number of choices, in both chemistry and manufacturer. This column covers some of the details, choices and trade-offs.

Paint can be poorly applied also....so like many jobs...it can depend on the human factor more than chemistry.

There are different grades of gel coat from what I understand.

It is considered easier to paint so it is by far the more common recoating method....but it will be interesting to see in 10-15 years as more refinished boats finish out their second lives.

This is from the Bertram 31 site (a group with a long history of top notch boat refinishing)...

"The resulting finish and the nature of the gelcoat will far exceed a painted surface in terms of longevity and repair ability, but you'll see why painting is the less expensive alternative. Gelcoat is less expensive in terms of material costs, but that is outweighed in terms of labor costs... Over a 20 year period the gelcoat becomes more cost effective, especially when compared with Awlgrip on topside surfaces since there would be at least 1 if not more re-paint jobs needed. "


https://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/re-gelcoating.htm

psneeld said:

"The resulting finish and the nature of the gelcoat will far exceed a painted surface in terms of longevity and repair ability, but you'll see why painting is the less expensive alternative. Gelcoat is less expensive in terms of material costs, but that is outweighed in terms of labor costs... Over a 20 year period the gelcoat becomes more cost effective, especially when compared with Awlgrip on topside surfaces since there would be at least 1 if not more re-paint jobs needed. "

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There was another question in this thread about cost between gelcoat and paint. I didn't ask specifically as I was more interested in what was best, but my sense is the cost was the cost was the same. After 50-years, my boat has an amazing number of holes from old instruments, gauges, thimbles, screws, snaps, cleats, antennae, etc. The amount of prep and faring is staggering. Even if the final choice of paint vs gelcoat carried a 50% premium one way or the other, overall effect on the project would be minimal.

As an aside, I've researched a bunch of similar threads on both TF and CF. There are many, many people who are very happy with their paint jobs after 10+ years, invariably stating "still looks like new." I can flatly state that 20-year gelcoat looks dim and chalky after 20-years in the Florida sun, especially if it isn't waxed annually, a non-trivial expense and effort. I suspect that's why Hatt paints their hulls from the factory.

I think the point is that an owner can wash and wax a gel coated boat and keep it looking pretty good for 20 years...at which point a major buff will bring it back for $ but far less than another good paint job.


I am not sold that gel is the way to go...but I have seen examples of re-gel coating that I would be ecstatic with and paint jobs that I would want my money back.


So yes I would probably paint unless I saw several re-gels by the same guy and had quite a few discussions over how quality assurance would be achieved.


I am only passing along that in my travels I am experiencing more and more refinishers and owners that are choosing gel over paint.... could be a good reason...or not.

In my experience with gel coating an existing surface, the gelcoat will have to be sanded fair then buffed back to a gloss finish. That takes a LOT of hours. Also gelcoat is quite thick and is very difficult to spray evenly. To get it to lie down flat you need to thin it a lot ideally with styrene but I have seen acetone used. In either case the solvent has to evaporate out of the gelcoat which is likely what causes porosity in gelcoat that is sprayed as a finish on an existing surface.


As to the statement above about gelcoat becoming porous when cured in air, gelcoat is air inhibited, which means it won't cure fully when exposed to air. To get gelcoat to cure you either add wax to it or coat it with a film of something like polyvinyl alcohol (PVA) to isolate it from air so it can cure fully. The wax rises to the top of the gelcoat and forms a barrier between the gelcoat and air. PVA washes off the gelcoat after the cure.

I can't knowledgably speak to the +/- of re-gel coating, but it sounds like a major undertaking to me, e.g. how do you fair it out, etc. But I painted my 27' sailboat nine years ago with Interlux Brightside (one part) and it's held up very well with minimal maintenance. The boat sits on a saltwater mooring all summer and sails on Nantucket and Vineyard Sounds.

The only problem I've encountered is fixing small dings: it's impossible to completely blend in touch-ups with the existing paint (dark blue), which of course has faded somewhat over the years. But the touch-ups are hardly noticeable and blend themselves in pretty well after a year or so.
Joe

CapeWhaler said:

I can't knowledgably speak to the +/- of re-gel coating, but it sounds like a major undertaking to me, e.g. how do you fair it out, etc. But I painted my 27' sailboat nine years ago with Interlux Brightside (one part) and it's held up very well with minimal maintenance. The boat sits on a saltwater mooring all summer and sails on Nantucket and Vineyard Sounds.

The only problem I've encountered is fixing small dings: it's impossible to completely blend in touch-ups with the existing paint (dark blue), which of course has faded somewhat over the years. But the touch-ups are hardly noticeable and blend themselves in pretty well after a year or so.
Joe

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I had some friends who lived aboard and painted their Amel sailboat over 15-years ago using Brightside. Took them the better part of a summer to do it part time. I saw the boat last year and it still looked good. Off white color, San Francisco climate so not too hard on paint.

Yes, I wouldn't say it was a fun job by any means. Took me about two months from wiping down the hull with wax remover and initial sanding to the final coat, and it was outside so had to choose my days re weather and temps. But very happy with the result and durability. I should have also mentioned that the boat sits on the hard outside during New England winters.
Joe

I would take most anything that Steve D says to the bank.

Yep, I'll be painting with AlexSeal this spring.

Polly resin anything , even gel coat, is for building new boats , not repair.

In a mold the gel can be sprayed on to the proper thickness , glass surfacing tissue and cloth added to reinforce the gel to stop print thru of the additional layers of hull.

Paint with epoxy fairing compounds , and an electric jitter bug seems simplest.

An air powered sander may leave oil on the surface.

Paint is maintenance free for all of 10 years with NO waxing just a good washing. Probably due for repaint in 10 years. Gel coat in good condition needs wax every year minimal. If in poor condition needs wet sanding, compounding, buffing, and wax to restore. Then wax every year. However gelcoat lasts for a long long time. Providing it is maintained as noted previously.

I could flip a coin over Gel vs paint, but would absolutely lean toward the paint, if a polyurethane one.


I find the gel coat fairly easy to repair small dings and cracks, which we all get. And not hard to blend in. One can buy get coat to match their current job and really easy if it's white. However, gel does crack and can be tricky with curing, etc.



My experience with polyurethanes is in aircraft painting which has some similarities. Poly is HARD and pretty resistance to dings and cracks... but will ding or chip if hit hard enough. However, I find patching and repairing and "blending in" to be extremely difficult. You almost need to tape off to some sort of edge and repaint that whole panel or area. Well, we don't have a lot of edges on boats. So blending become a necessity.