Jefferson 42 Black Iron Fuel Tanks

I'm looking at a 1987 Jefferson 42 and have spent the last coupe of days going over ll of her systems. Today I looked at the engines, genset and fuel tanks as best as I could. There was only a small opening in the wall insulation where the fule lines came out and I ran a borescope over the top of the tanks. One tank had a considerable amount of rust that was curling up on top. Couldnt see the sides. Other tank top looked fairly good. No leaks or diesel small. There was a nameplate that indicated the tanks are each 210 gallons and material is black iron 3mm. Can anyone give me a ballpark figure to replace them if done by a yard? I want to adjust my offer accordingly. I appreciate any advice and comments

Don't be so quick to condemn the steel tanks. They last many decades in work boats, and in trawlers if kept dry.

Agree. Check the access to them. If you unbolt them can you slide them out far enough to reach all 6 side? Some power wire brushing followed by proper coatings night revitalize them.

I have a 1987 41’ President that has 3 mm iron tanks. 210 gallons each. I was going to replace one of them this winter just because they are 32 years old. Unfortunately my back is not cooperating and doesn’t seem to be getting any better. I have twin SP225s so I have pulled one engine to get to the tank before I finally realized I can’t do the work due to my back. It was fairly easy getting the engine out after I made a crane to lift the engine. It was going to cost about $2600 for an aluminum 1/4” 5052 alloy tank with shipping to Michigan. I would guess that if I were to have it done it would cost around $10K. Good luck.

Not bad mouthing them. Just trying to understand my potential risk before spending a substantial amount of money. These tanks are hard to examine because they are behind the bulkhead insulation. Comodave gave me a good feel for potential cost and I will get a surveyor to look at them as well. Thanks for everyone's response.

I was going to replace mine just because they are old, not because I have any indication of leaking or even potential leaking. However my back isn’t cooperating so I will just clean up the area since I have the engine out. I will replace anything that looks questionable. I also was able to get in and replace the head in the aft cabin with the engine out I could climb back and run new hoses and wiring for the new head. Next winter I will do the same with the starboard engine because I like the way the port side is looking. Good luck with the possible purchase of your new boat, hope it works out the way you want it to.

If you have rust on top of the tank, the sealant around the fuel inlet has deteriorated. Water runs down the filler hose and pools on top of tank. At a minimum, you'll need to re-bed the fuel filler.

Answering your original question from post #1, the cost to replace them by a yard should be within the range of $12,000 to $20,000. Don’t ask me how I know!

Thanks Ray. I won't ask....

My steel tanks are from 1942. I use a algae-x magnet the fuel flows thru before the primaries. The magnet catches all the rust. I clean it once a year. But primary filters will catch any rust. I don't know if the magnet does it's designed purpose.

Giggitoni said:

the cost to replace them by a yard should be within the range of $12,000 to $20,000.

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Wow that’s yacht yards for ya!

How about just go to a welding shop with a set of plans and be out the door for less than a grand. Replace them yourself.

I would not have an uncertified fuel tank in my boat. Your insurance would probably not cover any loss due to the tank. They have to be pressure tested and built to specs in order to be certified.

makobuilders said:

Wow that’s yacht yards for ya!

How about just go to a welding shop with a set of plans and be out the door for less than a grand. Replace them yourself.

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The replacement of my old tanks was the smallest cost increment of the total job. Labor, removal of old tanks, moving other engine room stuff around, etc. was very time consuming...ie costly. If I were to attempt the job myself, I’d still be working at it! That’s not why I got into pleasure boating.

Also, the OP’s question was the cost of professionals completing the job so he can ask the seller for a proper reduction in asking price.

WE seem to spend an awful lot of time here on T.F. talking about tanks. Steel, glass, stainless, water, fuel and used food.

I think I can pretty well sum it up.

1) Steel generally fail at around 30 years.

2) cost of replacement will be between $10,000 and $20,000 depending on if you have a single engine or twins and how dirty you want to get.

3) Many owners opt to cut up the steel and replace with several smaller plastic or aluminum tanks, generally at a substantial savings but the loss of a few gallons of capacity.

4) Steel tanks fail from the inside from internal water or from the outside from dripping water or sitting on wet beds.

5) Some owners have tried patching, fixing and other band aid ideas. The consenses seems to be to do it right the first time.

pete

Lepke said:

My steel tanks are from 1942. I use a algae-x magnet the fuel flows thru before the primaries. The magnet catches all the rust. I clean it once a year. But primary filters will catch any rust. I don't know if the magnet does it's designed purpose.

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Sorry for thread drift here.

Lepke help me with this algae- x thing. I have one on my boat. (Came with the boat) I never serviced it. I checked them on line and they are expensive for sure. I cannot seem to find any maintenance instructions. If in fact they really do work their must be crud inside the algae x unit that needs to be removed. Do you just remove the cover?
Sounds like snake oil to me but I will listen

Comodave said:

I would not have an uncertified fuel tank in my boat. Your insurance would probably not cover any loss due to the tank. They have to be pressure tested and built to specs in order to be certified.

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Nothing magical about a fuel tank. Pressure test it to 3psi. Depends on how handy the OP is.

I am having two 200-gallon tanks with four 100-gallom tanks. Fiberglass. With fittings, engine removal, and installation, around $8k in Mexico. Aluminum would have been a. Additional $1500 due to low labor costs for fiberglass and high material costs for aluminum. Estimate of $15k for both tanks feels about right in US.

Thanks. Wish I was able to take advantage of those Mexican prices but I'm on the east coast! The $15K number is in the range I've been hearing from folks who have responded here. Did you avoid removing the engines by going with the four fiberglass tanks?

Comodave said:

I would not have an uncertified fuel tank in my boat. Your insurance would probably not cover any loss due to the tank. They have to be pressure tested and built to specs in order to be certified.

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Your assuming that tanks made in the Far East are all certified?




HOLLYWOOD

hollywood8118 said:

Your assuming that tanks made in the Far East are all certified?




HOLLYWOOD

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40 years ago ABYC standards were different. Most original equipment seems to pass a survey. Once you upgrade insurance companies like to avoid paying claims for non ABYC repairs. Of course if all goes well you won’t have to make a claim. I did the work on my tank replacement but had the tanks made at a certified shop. $3500 plus my labor.

gjweston said:

Thanks. Wish I was able to take advantage of those Mexican prices but I'm on the east coast! The $15K number is in the range I've been hearing from folks who have responded here. Did you avoid removing the engines by going with the four fiberglass tanks?

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Not a chance. Engine was removed and set on aft deck. Even if the engine didn't have to come out, I can't imagine properly installing tanks unless the engine was out. Plus, great time to clean up and paint engine room, replace insulation, etc. I admire Comodave who is doing this himself - way too daunting for me. Three workers had the engine out in about 4-hours plus whatever time it took to dig up the timbers to build an A-frame hoist.

hollywood8118 said:

Your assuming that tanks made in the Far East are all certified?




HOLLYWOOD

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Mine are, certificates are attached to the outside of the tanks.

mvweebles said:

Not a chance. Engine was removed and set on aft deck. Even if the engine didn't have to come out, I can't imagine properly installing tanks unless the engine was out. Plus, great time to clean up and paint engine room, replace insulation, etc. I admire Comodave who is doing this himself - way too daunting for me. Three workers had the engine out in about 4-hours plus whatever time it took to dig up the timbers to build an A-frame hoist.

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Well stop admiring me... My back has gone out and so far have not found a fix for it after 8 procedures so I have given up on the tank replacement. We did take the engine out before I was able to admit that I couldn’t do the work. I am working about 2 hours every other day and that is all I can manage. The crane I made worked like a champ though. We set the crane up and then a couple of days later it took 3 of us 2 hours and the engine was out and stacked on the starboard side. I guess that I will be satisfied with cleaning,painting, replacing lots of hoses, etc. i was able to install our new Marine Elegance head with the engine out I was able to access the hoses. I am cleaning up the 32 years of wiring done by apparently idiots. I have 2 unused through hulls that I am removing and glassing closed.

Very sorry to hear about your back. Chronic pain can be really difficult and I hope this is something you'll get over soon.

This is a good conversation for the OP to view. You mention other work while engine is out. Much of it is work I'm also having done. Replacement generator. Cleaning up idiot wiring (much of my own after 23 years of ownership) and relocating seacocks and some pumps (so basically, reworking plumbing system) . Also, after 50-years of service, the engine room insulation had deteriorated and needed replacement. These are not trivial additional costs.

I made a very conscious decision to overspend and over improve our boat. We've owned her for 23-years and decided to do a last-boat refit - after so many years of ownership, more of an emotional decision. Sort of like deciding to have an expensive medical procedure on a beloved pet.

This is a trawler forum. Target boats generally have large fuel tanks that require significant effort and cost to replace. My opinion, if you suspect the fuel tanks and unless the boat is unique, either walk away or compel the seller to demonstrate service life. $15k is roughly the replacement guesstimate. But does not account for the other stuff you will find along the way.

To the OP - there is a school of thought that says the cheapest boat to own is the most expensive boat to buy, especially if you consider loss of use from downtime. Some people really enjoy this type of repair work so it's a hobby in itself (I don't know Comodave, but people like him often earn their stripes through enjoyment of this type of work. I used to be one too - I no longer do, but I have much of the skill if needed). Be very honest about your finances and your appetite for hands-on work.

M/V Weebles and Comodave thanks for the good information. I'm going to go forward with the Jefferson and commission a survey. I think we've arrived at a price that takes into account the age of the tanks should I decide to replace them in the future. I'm not too big on doing a lot of heavy work in the engine compartment at my age and bad knees. Extended boat yoga isn't fun so any heavy work down there will be done by the boatyard. Hopefully the tanks checkout OK. I'm looking forward to joining the trawling community and making a lot of new friends.

Can I drag anchor and drift away for a second?
Does anyone know the thickness of steel tanks in an Albin 40? I bet I scraped 3mm off when I cleaned mine up. Now I may be concerned about how much is left

Mine are 210 gallons and are 3mm steel per the label. Don’t know what yours are but are probably similar.

As a data point (maybe not germane) the Jefferson had a plate on the tank that said 3mm.

Tony sundeck 40 said:

Can I drag anchor and drift away for a second?
Does anyone know the thickness of steel tanks in an Albin 40? I bet I scraped 3mm off when I cleaned mine up. Now I may be concerned about how much is left

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When you clean off rust keep in mind that steel expands between 2-3x when it rusts although I've read in some places that it expands up to 6 times.


When I cleaned my tanks last winter I was surprised by how thick they are. About 3/16".


Ken

kchace said:

When you clean off rust keep in mind that steel expands between 2-3x when it rusts although I've read in some places that it expands up to 6 times.


When I cleaned my tanks last winter I was surprised by how thick they are. About 3/16".


Ken

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Thanks. I’m feeling better now. They still seem fine when I tap them with a light hammer.