Using two anchors

Hi,

I have a double shoot windlass situation and have two anchors that I'd like to put there.
A Fortress 45 lb
and Rocna 55 lb.


First goal is just to store both of them there, but be able to primarily use the Rocna.


Second goal is to use both with a Bahamian tie, or pull on back for a stern anchor.


Questions:
How will they fit so the primary can come on and off easily? Pictures would be great.
Is there some way that I could use the windlass (or perhaps just the crank winch part of it) to pull up the second anchor? First anchor is all chain and second will be all rope.


Additional tips on using or storing would be great!

Your Rocna not doing good enough?
Why not a bigger or better primary?

Nomad Willy said:

Your Rocna not doing good enough?
Why not a bigger or better primary?

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with either anchor. Getting info to have both available for use. Sometimes ya need two.


Storage is the biggest issue. I'm just not sure how both will fit.

Can’t imagine using or needing two. I’ve never needed or used two.

What on earth are you doing that requires two.
No being a smart butt I just wanna know.

Re the above I’d use your Rocna55 all the time and pull your spare out of the Laz or wherever. For your stated use you might consider a 25lb Supreme for a spare. They may still be on sale at WM. Great short scope performance and holding power and the 25 weighs 28lbs. Can handle by hand. For a new anchor the ARA Excel is better than the Supreme and will set in a very wide range of seafloors. And you may consider a new SARCA in a large size. Would do almost anything.

But I’d shy away from multiple anchors. Kinda like a pet that’s just too much trouble.

Actually you very rarely need two anchors and maybe never. I have used two anchors exactly twice in twenty years of boating and probably 500 nights at anchor, 50 of which were in the Bahamas but no Bahamian moors.

The first time was off of Catalina island where I used the anchor on the stern to keep the bow into the swells which were 90 degrees to the wind, a common situation in Catalina. I pulled the spare Fortress aft to use from the stern.

The second time I used two anchors from the bow in a V formation to improve holding in a heavy blow. Didn't help much and the single big anchor would have worked fine.


These were in different boats, but the best arrangement was a vertical windlass with a smooth capstan on top of the chain gypsy. The second anchor was a Fortress and had 50' of 1/4" G4 chain so I used the capstan to bring it up until the chain and pulled it up by hand after that. Worked fine. I also used the Fortress as a kedge anchor and could pull 90 degrees sideways easily with the vertical capstan. A vertical windlass gives you much better pulling geometry.

David

Nomad Willy said:

Can’t imagine using or needing two. I’ve never needed or used two.

What on earth are you doing that requires two.
No being a smart butt I just wanna know.

Re the above I’d use your Rocna55 all the time and pull your spare out of the Laz or wherever. For your stated use you might consider a 25lb Supreme for a spare. They may still be on sale at WM. Great short scope performance and holding power and the 25 weighs 28lbs. Can handle by hand. For a new anchor the ARA Excel is better than the Supreme and will set in a very wide range of seafloors. And you may consider a new SARCA in a large size. Would do almost anything.

But I’d shy away from multiple anchors. Kinda like a pet that’s just too much trouble.

Click to expand...

Anchoring in a current/tide is one reason for two..... used it many times and works fine.


Also, angling the boat if the wind is lining you up against the waves. Or, when anchoring behind the Statue of Liberty, the wake of the tour boats was at an angle to the current, so without two, ya bounce around til they go home. Or, you want the boat in a particular position.... did that the other day when we watched a boat parade and wanted the cockpit to face the parade (little current or wind).



But, 95% of the time, one does fine.

Again, the biggest issue is just storing two. Used to store the second one in the lazarrette, but a PITA.

Having a second anchor on the bow with easy windlass use would come in handy for a hammerlock moor if you've got a boat that's prone to yawing. Set 1 anchor, then once in a good position, just drop the other one at short scope. Being able to just power it down and back up with the windlass would make it probably the lowest effort solution to reducing yawing.

Thanks Seevee,
I could actually use two myself after pondering your situation.

I’ve shy’d away from anchorages open to channels because I was afraid I would eventually be broadside to a wake from a passing boat at night. Could be a big wake too. A bow and stern anchor may prevent that. But probably just reduce the chances significantly. I have a bungi beach rode that may help keep the desired alignment. Possibilities .....

I’ve needed two on more than one occasion. And one time it was needed NOW and having it at the ready saved me.
Also used two just to be secure on several occasions. Not all holding ground is good.
I’ll post up some pics of how I store two on the pulpit tomorrow when I get home from my mini getaway at treasure island

See if your windlass maker offers an optional capstan

You can spring your anchor line to change attitude to avoid uncomfortable rolling.

-> Pull in 10-15 feet of scope
-> Tie a rolling hitch to the rode
-> Redeploy the 10-15 ftt of scope.
-> run the spring line hitched to your anchor back to a midship cleat
-> haul on the spring line until you are pointing in the desired direction.

A stern anchor is more complicated to deploy and retrieve. Besides the springing on the anchor is usually as temporary as the wind and tide. A spring line is easier to tune and breakdown.

I've been using Rocna's for over ten years. Never had a problem with reversing tides and even severe thunderstorms and one tropical storm that had us sitting opposing the direction the anchor was set by 180 degrees.

About the only reason for a stern is if you are limited in your swing radius, where the swing radius is lower than an acceptable amount of scope.

I keep one for that reason. It sits in the bilge (lazerette in front of the lower helm). I haven't used a stern anchor in at least 12 years. That was because the only space to anchor was in shallow water with the wind blowing off of the beach. IF the wind turned, I'd be ON the beach.

SeeVee wrote;
“Again, the biggest issue is just storing two. Used to store the second one in the lazarrette, but a PITA.”

An easy way to use an extra anchor on the bow is to run the chain out through the brail on the bow and back on deck .. secured. If you want it almost instantly deployable you can secure it to the Fortress or Danforth flat on deck as was done commonly for many decades on yachts well above 50’ utilizing a small tube steel crane. You then aren’t burdened to look though an anchor to see debris in the water. Visibility has real value.
I often keep my dedicated primary anchor this way especially if it sits flat on the foredeck like a Danforth or SARCA. You could trip over the latter haha.

Only if you really need two anchors on the bow and of course if you don’t need them you don’t need them on the bow. Unless of course you consider the Rocna and/or the Fortress a work of art that needs to be appreciated. Both IMO are a bit too agricultural looking to play that role.
But I’m think’in somebody could think of a safety gig the extra anchor could perform.

I haven’t used two anchors simultaneously, but I do have two primary-anchors. The Spade anchor is set up with all chain, and runs off the chain gypsy side of my Tigres windlass.

The other anchor is an Al alloy Excell anchor, set up with about 30 feet of chain and 320 feet of brait. That anchor comes apart into two pieces and lives atop its rode in the second anchor locker. I have 6” deck openings into each anchor locker, and can reach the end of the second rode and pull it up. Because the Excell anchor is Al alloy, it’s light enough to easily carry up on the bow for attachment to the short chain (properly threaded through the bow roller first). I can pull up the chain or deploy the chain by hand, then use the rope drum to deploy or retrieve more rode as needed.

I have two primary setups because I boat solo and often in areas that have no docks.... (I tried hanging anchor #2 off the bow, but it interfered with the bridle when anchor #1 was used.)

Nomad Willy said:

You then aren’t burdened to look though an anchor to see debris in the water. Visibility has real value.

Click to expand...

This one is very much boat dependent. On my boat, for example, due to how the pulpit and anchor roller is built and placed, removing the anchor from the pulpit makes no difference in visibility at all. It's the fiberglass pulpit the roller sits in that you'd be trying to look through, not the anchor itself. Plus, from the helm, you're looking higher than the pulpit anyway (top of the pulpit is about 6 feet off the water, sitting at the helm, my eyes are about 10.5 feet off the water).

On a boat with a low helm position relative to the bow (like yours) and a tall anchor (and no bulky pulpit to block visibility with the anchor removed), then there might be a significant difference.

Seevee said:

I have a double shoot windlass situation and have two anchors that I'd like to put there.
A Fortress 45 lb
and Rocna 55 lb.

Questions:
How will they fit so the primary can come on and off easily? Pictures would be great.
Is there some way that I could use the windlass (or perhaps just the crank winch part of it) to pull up the second anchor? First anchor is all chain and second will be all rope.

Click to expand...

Might be something where you just have to do a trial mount to see if it'll work. 45-lb Fortress (47, on the Fortress website) is an FX-85, and it's huge. Stock or even flukes might interfere with launching/recovering the Rocna, but a trial mount could help you decide.

I'm assuming you already own the FX-85? Or if not, I suspect an FX-55 (also huge, but slightly less so) would very likely be an adequate storm anchor for your boat. And still might (or not) interfere with the Rocna.

If you have a windlass with both chain gypsy and rope capstan, you could use the chain wheel for the Rocna, and the capstan for a rope/chain rode on the Fortress. Depending on how much chain, you'd only need to pull that length by hand... If your windlass doesn't have the optional capstan, it might be an option you can install? (I think our Maxwell RC would allow doing that, but we don't have overhead clearance for the additional height.)

Wish we had a two-anchor pulpit... I'd really prefer to be able to launch our Fortress in about 30 seconds if necessary... but as it is, putting the thing together is about a half-hour job...

-Chris

I removed my pulpit one winter and set it up on saw horses in the garage and modified it to hold both anchors.
Obviously I also bought another anchor roller. And made some other mods to accept anchor number two and it’s rode. I’ll post pics later.

In my trips north, I have only used one anchor, a 77lb Rocna. I do have a a 50lb fortress which is my spare and is kept in the cockpit.

Pictures of how I mounted 2 anchors.
Top pic is original with a small 2nd anchor mounted on the rail.
Next 2 show the pulpit in the garage being modified. OOps looks like I didn't upload one picture.
Last 2 show them on the boat. Sorry these were the best ones I could find in my files.

This should be pic #2 in my post above

Using 2 anchor solution

I had the same set of questions and solved it another way.

I installed a Yacht Controller on my boat which can control both anchors. Additionally I have control over the engines. All this can be done wirelessly which make anchoring a one person task.

I go forward on the bow. drop the hook(s) and set them accordingly. Singly or bahamian style.

The number of times you will need the Fortress are so few that I'd (and I do) keep it disassembled in the Laz. Otherwise, you are going to have to hang it on the pulpit or store it so the flukes are vertical in the bow roller. No way a Rocna and any Danforth style anchor are going to sit in the normal bow roller configuration. You could have a custom bow roller set up built if you really think you'll need two anchors often, but that's a lot of money to spend if it happens you don't need both that often.

Anchors

Seevee said:

Hi,

I have a double shoot windlass situation and have two anchors that I'd like to put there.
A Fortress 45 lb
and Rocna 55 lb.


First goal is just to store both of them there, but be able to primarily use the Rocna.


Second goal is to use both with a Bahamian tie, or pull on back for a stern anchor.


Questions:
How will they fit so the primary can come on and off easily? Pictures would be great.
Is there some way that I could use the windlass (or perhaps just the crank winch part of it) to pull up the second anchor? First anchor is all chain and second will be all rope.


Additional tips on using or storing would be great!

Click to expand...

First suggestion: consider a Mantus rather than a Rocna. I have a Mantus. It’s amazing. It has all chain. My backup is a Fortress with rope. I keep it in the Laz by the water tanks. It’s easy to deploy from there if needed and it’s out of the way when not. .

Anchors

Nomad Willy said:

Can’t imagine using or needing two. I’ve never needed or used two.

What on earth are you doing that requires two.
No being a smart butt I just wanna know.

Re the above I’d use your Rocna55 all the time and pull your spare out of the Laz or wherever. For your stated use you might consider a 25lb Supreme for a spare. They may still be on sale at WM. Great short scope performance and holding power and the 25 weighs 28lbs. Can handle by hand. For a new anchor the ARA Excel is better than the Supreme and will set in a very wide range of seafloors. And you may consider a new SARCA in a large size. Would do almost anything.

But I’d shy away from multiple anchors. Kinda like a pet that’s just too much trouble.

Click to expand...

I have a scenario. I am on the Gulf Coast. We typically anchor in 10-15 ft of water, often much less. Sand and mud bottom. Crowded anchorages so scope is often difficult. You use the anchor that most often fits the conditions but it’s not uncommon to go to bed with clear skies and have 50kt winds and a thunderstorm at 0430 out of nowhere. A second anchor is very handy at that time. Even if that only happens to you once or twice in 10 years, a Fortress, stored out of the way, pays for itself. It’s like having a gun. Better to have it and never need it than need it and not have it. The conditions here are very different than the PNW. It’s like having a kicker on a powerboat. Few here have them but you better have one there.

72 pound Rocna and a Fortress FX37 on the bow of my Calypso. Note the fisherman stowed nearby. I could also stow the fisherman aft and put the Fortress over there on the stbd bulwark where the fisherman had been leaving the second anchor roller empty.

Belt + suspenders

We had 2 danforths (22lbs) on the bow of our Albin 25 for 20 years , never used more than one. 100’ of 5/8 nylon braid, 25’ chain primary cruising Massachusetts bay.

10 years ago we bought a 34’ DC trawler that came with a rocna anchor for cruising Penobscot bay, replaced the winch with a deadfall chain/rode lewmar. The rode is 200’ 5/8th brait with 40’ bb chain. Kept the beloved danforth in brackets on the bow with the old rode on the stern. (Backup never used).

We are giving up the trawler, going back to the Albin, I will add a winch, a rocna primary and keep a danforth I’ll never use on the stern.

My bow has a Fortress FX-55 on the port side of my bow pulpit - which has the roller out the furthest. Then I have a Rocna 40 on the starboard side of the bow pulpit that has a slot in the pulpit and the Rocna shaft fits up the slot and over the roller.

I wanted to swap the placement but the Fortress cross bar interfered with the Rocna.

I have two vertical windlasses so I have redundancy. The starboard windlass gears seized anchored off the USCG station behind Sandy Hook. I was able to tie off the Fortress anchor, take the chain off the gypsy and then have the port windlass retrieve the chain and Rocna.

I have not deployed both anchors at the same time. I do have a Danforth anchor and 200' of 3/4" rode in the lazerette as an emergency backup and possible stern anchor. I have used it twice and never want to do it again, as I do not have a windlass to retrieve the stern hook nor easy to use chocks and cleats for proper routing.

Wow, some great posts and good pix. Lots of good ideas.


I'll need to play with the mounting, but, as mentioned, don't believe the Fortress and Rocna will fit side by side at all.



Can still store the Fortress in the laz, but a bit of a pain hauling out and using. But... doable.

Something kinda like Rgano's picture should work for both. I'd personally have the Fortress come up through the pulpit so it can sit flat against the bottom of it. And then the Rocna roller is on top of the pulpit (with the 2 offset a bit side to side). So the Rocna effectively deploys over the top of the retracted Fortress. Or the Fortress can deploy from under / behind the Rocna.

'Lo All, I often (usually) deployed two anchors when on my old sailboat. If I didn't, it would "hunt" terribly. (In strong winds, it would swing wildly on the anchor - over an arc of about 160 degrees.) Two anchors deployed about 30 degrees apart prevented it. I used a Fortress 45 (?) and a 45 # CQR. I built the pulpit so that the two anchors could be fed directly into the 3500# Maxwell windlass (much like the picture in post #20). While the two anchors were in close proximity, they never interfered with each other during deployment or retrieval.