Kedging technique & equipment

psneeld · Dec 3, 2019

Pull hard enough and double braid will have a slingshot effect too...scared myself plenty of times using even 1 inch double braided towlines on the assistance towboat.

Pull straight ahead (I don't usually recommend pulling astern for several reasons) and it's not as prone to bending stuff as twisting (the worst) or pulling astern.

rgano · Dec 3, 2019

To answer the OP's question, and speaking as a former ocean-going salvage ship captain, for remote cruising with no immediate help available, I would carry a multi-part tackle, a snatch block or two, a large Fortress or two, and a big come-along. Some sort of non-stretchy high-tech line (Dynema??) for the tackle would be a big space saver. As previously discussed, use the anchor windlass in combination with the tackle to get all the tension possible there and then add what you can with the come-along to a second anchor while awaiting high tide to use ship engine if possible. Pleasure vessels not being built to withstand these sorts of pull, I would go over the possible attaching points with somebody who knows what they are doing before just tugging away. We were equipped to weld padeyes and such all over the place on our own or another vessel, but you can't do that to a rec vessel.

Lucky Chucky · Dec 3, 2019

Captain Gano,

Thank you the excellent post.

~LC

OldDan1943 · Dec 3, 2019

Benthic2 said:
I would think there would be a considerable risk of bending your rudder, shaft or prop support thingies ( the name escapes me at the moment ) Would a better approach be a set of sturdy timbers or airbags to support the boat until the next high tide ??

I have to laugh because the older I get, the more "thingies" I have on my boat.

rgano · Dec 3, 2019

Lucky Chucky said:
Captain Gano,

Thank you the excellent post.

~LC

As Jeeves, the gentlemen's gentleman of Jeeves and Wooster fame, said when turning out another of his effortless miracles, "I endeavor to provide satisfaction, suh."

koliver · Dec 3, 2019

MurrayM said:
Amazingly, there was a Fisheries Officer in the bay who told him to start his engine, put it into reverse, and slowly increase the throttle. What ended up happening was the propeller wash along the hull dug a trench that the boat could sit in. Turns out the boat returned to level floating in its self made trench and he walked around his boat to take pictures at low tide. High tide lifted him to freedom.

Fisheries folks don't want to know where you have "Wheel dredged" as that can amount to a "harmful alteration of fish habitat" and can get you in Big Trouble.

Useful in your bag of tricks all the same.

OldDan1943 · Dec 3, 2019

koliver said:
Fisheries folks don't want to know where you have "Wheel dredged" as that can amount to a "harmful alteration of fish habitat" and can get you in Big Trouble.

Useful in your bag of tricks all the same.

and the boat owner's other option was? Hang around for the high tide and hope no further damage occurred to his boat, the environment, and those on board?

Remember, he was doing this under the recommendations and guidance of a Fisher official.

Chrisjs · Dec 3, 2019

I definitely recall quite vividly being on the transom of a RN minesweeper when a deployed sweep cable snapped. You do not want to be anywhere close!!

OldDan1943 · Dec 3, 2019

Chrisjs said:
I definitely recall quite vividly being on the transom of a RN minesweeper when a deployed sweep cable snapped. You do not want to be anywhere close!!

Oh yea, next state over.
Glad you survived.

wkearney99 · Dec 4, 2019

OldDan1943 said:
Ever notice how jeep owners insist on putting the wench on the forward bumper? I guess they want to pull themselves further into the problem. SHRUG Their choice.

Written like someone that's never been off-roading.

Unlike a boat, you can run your winch cable under the vehicle. Or along-side and back using snatch blocks. Secondly, it's bad form to ever go recreational off-roading alone, for any number of reasons, least of which is getting stuck. But if you do, having someone else along will likely double the amount of rescue hardware you might have on-hand.

So, really, maybe stick with what you know next time?

As for kedging, you do want to be mindful of your running gear. On a boat with a full keel you're probably less likely to have issues. I'd worry about the rudder. But with straight shafts and twins you're asking for trouble with twisting a prop strut and/or bending a shaft (and then causing shaft bearing troubles, if not more).

I had this happen some years ago with an express boat. We were stuck pretty well in thick mud and the effort necessary to extract us put enough strain on the running gear to bend things a bit. Nothing broke but I could tell there was just enough vibration to warrant getting it fixed before further damage would result. As a result I'm much more mindful to avoid unknown waters, especially at high tides. At least with a low tide you've got hope of a rising tide helping the process.

OldDan1943 · Dec 4, 2019

Poked my N46 into the mud of the ICW thanks to the hired Captain's direction. Backdown at a reasonable RPM and it popped right out.

wkearney99 · Dec 5, 2019

OldDan1943 said:
Poked my N46 into the mud of the ICW thanks to the hired Captain's direction. Backdown at a reasonable RPM and it popped right out.

Any time you get stuck remember to check the sea strainers and be prepared to replace impellers. Mud and sand getting sucked up while you're stuck is bad for the sea water cooling system.

I swear, the best insurance I've had since for not running aground was having spare props, and impellers on board. Almost seems like they're good luck charms or something.

OldDan1943 · Dec 5, 2019

wkearney99 said:
Any time you get stuck remember to check the sea strainers and be prepared to replace impellers. Mud and sand getting sucked up while you're stuck is bad for the sea water cooling system.

I swear, the best insurance I've had since for not running aground was having spare props, and impellers on board. Almost seems like they're good luck charms or something.

Yea, checked my sea strainers that night. Nothing there.
It was an almost gentle coasting 'poke'.

foreverunderway · Dec 9, 2019

Exactly what size line/chain can you carry on a 43' boat that will actually hold 60 odd thousand pounds with absolutely no resistance, never mind trying to drag your boat over whatever material you are grounded on?

My 1/2" chain has a WWL of only 4500 pounds. Amsteel line may have the basic strength, but can you afford a couple of hundred feet of that stuff laying around for a maybe? Then there's your windlass. No way it is strong enough for an operation like that.

No way I'm trying to be be "snarky" but I'm with those who are telling you that not running aground at speed is better than trying to figure out what you are going to do if you do. If you think you are in danger of running aground SLOW DOWN! Learn to read the water, especially in rivers, and just don't continue doing what you are doing if you think you might run aground. You are not Cook, Magellan or Drake. Someone has been where you intend to go before you, so there is local knowledge available, everywhere.

As for that garbage of "mistakes or sh*t happens, that's crap! I've been operating vessels of all sorts, all over the world, for more than 5 decades (professionally and for pleasure) and not had anyone go over the side, had a serious injury or any of the other things pleasure boaters spend so much time trying to come up with a remedy for after the fact. The last time I went aground was in a river in OZ in 1976 and I learned my lesson. Don't learn yours the hard way.

psneeld · Dec 9, 2019

Some never go aground, most do if they boat along the Eastern Seaboard of the US.

As an assistance tower....plenty of experienced, professional captains had an occasion to go aground and needed help...so let's just take that off the table unless one thinks they are invincible in all boating areas, on all boats, in all situations.

Many captains do go aground and get themselves off by knowing and using their boat power, some do it by kedging. In some cases it might just have involved waiting for a higher tide, but if one chooses to kedge off early...it's their call.

Kedging is more art than science...reading a complex situation for the best approach to kedge off isn't always easy. Direction, probability, chance f running gear damage, etc all factor in...but NOT setting an anchor and giving it a try ...or even just setting and anchor and NOT kedging might result in the boat being diven harder aground and now in a position to NOT get off without salvage level assistance.

Study the technique, learn about it from experienced boaters, have some decent equipment, maybe practice once if you have never done it with an experienced person aboard, and don't hesitate when the situation arises as the tide waits for no man as the saying goes.

OldDan1943 · Dec 9, 2019

Before you start buying bigger chain remember 2 things. 1. the chain has to fit the windlass 2. the windlass has to be mounted firmly so as to provide the pull and not pop out of the deck.
It would be better to back down slow and steady to dig that trench. Go have a cup of coffee.
Finally, people say, dont move your rudder... minor shifting cant hurt and might assist on breaking the suction of the bow in the mud, IMO. Lock to lock, not a good idea.

High Wire · Dec 9, 2019

I guess I have been very lucky:
First I set my shallow water alarm at 8 feet in Georgia and South Carolina. If Im less than 8 ft, I'm not in the channel anymore unless it is low tide. 6 ft everywhere else.
If I do hit, backing out worked every time it was not dragging anchor related because the above alarm gave me time to make it a gentle hit.
Last, if a thunderstorm dragged the anchor and I wound up with reeds at the rail, after the wind dies, bumping the windlass was enough to swing the bow out into deep enough water to drive out and recover.
On the way north this Spring I helped out a cruising couple hard aground in GA by setting their anchor out in deep water for them with my dinghy then let the tide come in. The 8 ft GA tides floated the boat and the current swung them into deep water automatically. I guess you could call that kedging.

OCEANA · Dec 9, 2019

I did much the same last year in a 40k lb 51' sailboat run so hard up in the mud it showed an extra 6 inches of bottom paint above the water. Oh yeah, blowing 25+ as well.

The windlass is a very powerful tool and it only took a 25 lb. Danforth taken out 200 feet in the dinghy to do it. We like to never got that anchor unstuck from the bottom, but sure glad it held since taking a bigger anchor out in the wind would have been risky

Blissboat said:
Sailor of Fortune wrote, "I'm not talking about deploying the bow anchor. I'm talking about using bow windless to take strain from one or more stern anchors through block and tackle via a line fairled from aft to fwd to use windlass."

Ditto. I have used my windlass to kedge off just that way. Using the dinghy, I carried a stern anchor (a pretty big Danforth) out to deeper water, as far as the length of its rode would permit. Back at the stern of the boat, I fed the rode back aboard through an aft hawse hole in the starboard quarter. From there, I ran the line along the starboard walkway, past the pilothouse door, and up to the windlass. After heaving the line taut, doing my best to hand-set the stern anchor, I began taking the line in with the windlass. That was sufficient to move the boat stern first, and I was off the mud in a jiffy.

The boat was a 42' Grand Banks. In using the windlass to heave in on a line running aft, I feared chafe along the forward corner of the cabin trunk as the rode tightened and moved across the gelcoat, but there was no damage. A block attached to a breast cleat could have alleviated that concern, but I was working fast (against a falling tide) with the tools at hand.

Once I was free of the bottom, before trying to maneuver, I tied a fender to the end of the stern anchor rode and dropped it over the side. Once I had recovered the forward anchor (that had been set off the bow), I maneuvered back to pick up the stern hook. Mission accomplished.

How I got into that whole situation is another story . . .

Sailor of Fortune · Dec 9, 2019

foreverunderway said:
Exactly what size line/chain can you carry on a 43' boat that will actually hold 60 odd thousand pounds with absolutely no resistance, never mind trying to drag your boat over whatever material you are grounded on?

My 1/2" chain has a WWL of only 4500 pounds. Amsteel line may have the basic strength, but can you afford a couple of hundred feet of that stuff laying around for a maybe? Then there's your windlass. No way it is strong enough for an operation like that.

No way I'm trying to be be "snarky" but I'm with those who are telling you that not running aground at speed is better than trying to figure out what you are going to do if you do. If you think you are in danger of running aground SLOW DOWN! Learn to read the water, especially in rivers, and just don't continue doing what you are doing if you think you might run aground. You are not Cook, Magellan or Drake. Someone has been where you intend to go before you, so there is local knowledge available, everywhere.

As for that garbage of "mistakes or sh*t happens, that's crap! I've been operating vessels of all sorts, all over the world, for more than 5 decades (professionally and for pleasure) and not had anyone go over the side, had a serious injury or any of the other things pleasure boaters spend so much time trying to come up with a remedy for after the fact. The last time I went aground was in a river in OZ in 1976 and I learned my lesson. Don't learn yours the hard way.

Everybody seems to like to quote how heavy their boat is compared to the ground tackle working loads... Your not lifting a "60,000 lb,40,000 lb boat or whatever weight is presented. Getting a boat refloated doesn't take anywhere near the displacement weight. Your not a travel lift, just trying to drag it a bit....or wait for tides help

Larry M · Dec 9, 2019

Lucky Chucky said:
Ocean going trawler...we're cruising in central and south America where the paper charts and Navionics are not always accurate. And often there is no tow boat or coast guard.

~LC

This a great thread and some good information on getting unstuck but don’t sweat it. Have a big and long enough line to get towed off of what you may get stuck to. Have a point(s) that you can secure the line/bridle to.

We spent over 6 years between Mexico and Trinidad. The charts are surprisingly accurate. If you do need help, the local fisherman all have pangas and will get you off unless you’re on the rocks.

Have fun. It’s a great trip and we would do it again!

FF · Dec 10, 2019

Since size counts ,a larger anchor is better to use than a small one , but since weight in the dink is a hassle , no chain need be on the anchor its not needed.

My favorite a 20H or 35H Danforth.

bayview · Dec 10, 2019

IMO a fish finder with scanning display is better for avoiding grounding than the typical depth finder that displays numbers only. The scanning plot shows some bottom profile trend data that gives clues about the bottom shape.

rgano · Dec 10, 2019

bayview said:
IMO a fish finder with scanning display is better for avoiding grounding than the typical depth finder that displays numbers only. The scanning plot shows some bottom profile trend data that gives clues about the bottom shape.

Unless it is forward looking, all you see there is what you are over and a little history. Sonar in water shallow enough to ground a boat drawing 4-6 feet is pretty difficult if not impossible to accurately interpret, and even if all those technical difficulties were resolved, how far ahead would it "see?" Ask somebody who has hunted mines about this topic and how hard it is to discern things.

OldDan1943 · Dec 10, 2019

rgano said:
Unless it is forward looking, all you see there is what you are over and a little history. Sonar in water shallow enough to ground a boat drawing 4-6 feet is pretty difficult if not impossible to accurately interpret, and even if all those technical difficulties were resolved, how far ahead would it "see?" Ask somebody who has hunted mines about this topic and how hard it is to discern things.

"Look ahead" sonar is a no real advantage when going fast.

If you are traveling at a slow speed in questionable waters, if your depth sounder is mounted forward in your hull, you should be 'almost' safe.
I say 'almost' because nothing is 100% but, death and taxes.

wkearney99 · Dec 14, 2019

It's been discussed in other threads and the consensus on forward sonar is it does work for slow speed 'investigating' of shallows, but that's about it. That and the cost of getting it setup hasn't made it appealing enough to build any decent kind of market momentum.

I seem to recall some vendor's system was moving toward being able to integrate bathymetry from a dinghy/support boat back to the main vessel. Take the dink in there, paint the bottom and build a larger picture back on the mothership. No idea if that's actually a reality or not. It'd still run afoul of the costs to implement something like that and to actually use it.

OldDan1943 · Dec 14, 2019

wkearney99 said:
It's been discussed in other threads and the consensus on forward sonar is it does work for slow speed 'investigating' of shallows, but that's about it. That and the cost of getting it setup hasn't made it appealing enough to build any decent kind of market momentum.

I seem to recall some vendor's system was moving toward being able to integrate bathymetry from a dinghy/support boat back to the main vessel. Take the dink in there, paint the bottom and build a larger picture back on the mothership. No idea if that's actually a reality or not. It'd still run afoul of the costs to implement something like that and to actually use it.

Not going to do much good if doing single handed

Kedging technique & equipment

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