Passing Before Bridges

O C Diver · Nov 25, 2019

psneeld said:
Rules of the road are between 2 vessels and really not between vessels where a true head to head, crossing, or overtaking is not really valid such as loitering in front of a bridge...they are all usually maneuvering in random motions...

So again... Rule 2 is the presumptive rule (prudent seamanship) which allows a lot of latitude in behavior.

Plus, if you are going to apply maneuvering whistles, whether by horn or radio, you are supposed to wait for agreement by all the vessels...like that is practical with the typical bunch of recreational boaters....

Even the USCG and other LEOs just pass on through most of the time I have noticed.

And now for a total waste of thought.
Is the vessel(s) sitting in front of the bridge "Underway not Making Way "?
As most drawbridges have a channel leading through the span, is the waiting vessel obligated under the rules of good seamanship to vacate the navigation channel and not impede those traveling in the channel?

Ted

SoWhat · Nov 25, 2019

psneeld said:
Rules of the road are between 2 vessels and really not between vessels where a true head to head, crossing, or overtaking is not really valid such as loitering in front of a bridge...they are all usually maneuvering in random motions...
So again... Rule 2 is the presumptive rule (prudent seamanship) which allows a lot of latitude in behavior.
Plus, if you are going to apply maneuvering whistles, whether by horn or radio, you are supposed to wait for agreement by all the vessels...like that is practical with the typical bunch of recreational boaters....

If you are passing 10 boats in line, then you must signal 10 times. If a sailboat decides to circle and swings in front of you, and you broadside him, you are at fault for failure to signal. Overtaking is overtaking.

Capitaine R · Nov 25, 2019

I'm glad that a lot of TF members know the rules of the road and how to signal other boaters using a horn, but most people piloting a boat around here have no idea why you are blowing your horn at them and they will just give you the one finger salute. You are just going to confusion the situation.

psneeld · Nov 25, 2019

SoWhat said:
If you are passing 10 boats in line, then you must signal 10 times. If a sailboat decides to circle and swings in front of you, and you broadside him, you are at fault for failure to signal. Overtaking is overtaking.

Nope....it's not that simple.

And at hundreds of bridges I have gone through...they are never in a line so don't bother with another gross misinterpretation of the concept of the rules.

If they were in a line, pointed in the right direction, not circling or backing down or using thrusters.....maybe the "overtaking" concept would apply...but fortunately...I never see boats waiting for bridges that way so I will stick to the rule that makes the most sense.

Wxx3 · Nov 25, 2019

psneeld said:
Exactly... so many out there with no clue.....

And they learned it from the "old salt" at the dock...which in real english.... is just another "no clue boater" with more years boating under their belt.

PS said it best.
Americans talk too much on the radio often with confusing responses.
It's too often used as a crutch for not knowing the rules, navigation lights, etc.

markpierce · Nov 26, 2019

Damn the torpedoes. Full steam ahead, cautiously.

FF · Nov 26, 2019

We have a 50 ft boat that only needs 12-13ft of air draft, and frequently will slip by the boats milling about for a bridge.

As we cruise at a nice economical 7,5K few of the sail boats will catch us , but many of the sport fish run 3x our speed.

Some do, some don't give a good pass , mostly not out of HATE , but ignorance of how to..

Eagle Pursuit · Nov 26, 2019

I've never understood the need to constantly circle your vessel while holding station. A good helmsman will be able to pickup the wind or current direction and put the bow into it and using small corrections with the transmission and helm hold the vessel in more or less one spot. In situations like this, I generally consider the circling vessel as one that is bearly under control and taking up way more room than necessary.

rslifkin · Nov 26, 2019

Eagle Pursuit said:
I've never understood the need to constantly circle your vessel while holding station. A good helmsman will be able to pickup the wind or current direction and put the bow into it and using small corrections with the transmission and helm hold the vessel in more or less one spot. In situations like this, I generally consider the circling vessel as one that is bearly under control and taking up way more room than necessary.

Agreed. Unless you have a particularly un-maneuverable vessel and are dealing with wind and current from different directions, holding station within a fairly small area shouldn't be hard.

Chrisjs · Nov 26, 2019

Often there are multiple vessels just trying to maintain position before the bridge opens. They are generally trying to maintain position while avoiding other vessels. Depending on the length of the wait, channel width, tidal conditions and wind, it can be quite stressful.So, anybody weaving their way through such a cluster (expletive deleted!!) may deserve all the abuse they get, no matter the reason for not waiting for the opening!! Personally, I always tried to avoid waiting by carefully timing the bridge approach, slowing or speeding up to arrive just in time, though there was one occasion in a narrow stretch of the ICW when a failed bridge took an extra 2 hours to open - that really was mess. We ended up throwing out the anchor in the middle of the ICW. IMO, threading the needle between multiple boats, especially without even alerting others to your intent, is just asking for problems.

psneeld · Nov 26, 2019

Sorry guys, some boats don't hold position well at all and constantly throttling and shifting isn't necessarily kind to your drive train. Not everyone has thrusters and not all bridge holdings are timid.

Sometimes I circle too...and sometimes my circle can be a 1/4 mile run or more back down the ICW... well timed to be a single or multiple racetrack pattern.

Plus width (depth constrained) of waterway plays a big factor.

So circling boats could be by anyone, even the best boats and boat handlers...just a question of "balanced decision making".

And waiting for a bridge opening you don't need? That's just a sign of bad seamanship on all involved.

menzies · Nov 26, 2019

There ain't no holding in one position in St Augustine waiting for the Bridge of Lions opening unless slack.

Nightsky · Nov 26, 2019

Pete Meisinger said:
I don't think you had the right to pass into the front of the line. You made a few assumptions which could have been wrong. How did you know they were all traveling together, how did you know they were going to be slow on the other side of the bridge, requiring passing? How do you know they would all be confused by a radio call?

Just because you have a highly maneuverable, quick boat does not give you any right to pass the others while waiting for a bridge.

No, any way I look at it, you were wrong..

Sorry,

pete

Totally disagree with your view. If the powerboat can pass under the bridge without requiring an opening why should he wait and then have to pass all those boats one at a time later on? Makes no sense to me. Reminds me of the guy driving in the fast lane down the highway at the posted speed ignoring highway signs telling slower traffic to keep right. Righteous boneheads.

Ski in NC · Nov 26, 2019

I always try to time my arrival at bridges. OK, bridge is five miles up, half hour til open time, I do the math and run at a mix of speeds and times to get there right on time. Always chuckle when someone passes me and then we meet right at the bridge with him circling and me going putt-putt. Dumb a$$.

SoWhat · Nov 26, 2019

Eagle Pursuit said:
I've never understood the need to constantly circle your vessel while holding station. A good helmsman will be able to pickup the wind or current direction and put the bow into it and using small corrections with the transmission and helm hold the vessel in more or less one spot. In situations like this, I generally consider the circling vessel as one that is bearly under control and taking up way more room than necessary.

Depends. strong current, gusty wind, deep keel, difficult to keep station. My former sailboat had a direction of it's own and if line was compressed I would have to circle.

It was also highly dependent upon the boats fore and aft keeping their position. Not always the case. Times when it was a lot easier to circle.

psneeld · Nov 26, 2019

menzies said:
There ain't no holding in one position in St Augustine waiting for the Bridge of Lions opening unless slack.

or even better, a strong foul current.

koliver · Nov 26, 2019

The OP posted, mostly because he heard someone calling rudely on the VHF. I would suggest that person encountered some rude behaviours among the waiting boats, and the comment was not directed at the one boat that didn't need to wait.

SteveK · Nov 26, 2019

markpierce said:
Damn the torpedoes. Full steam ahead, cautiously.

caltexflanc · Nov 26, 2019

Ski in NC said:
I always try to time my arrival at bridges. OK, bridge is five miles up, half hour til open time, I do the math and run at a mix of speeds and times to get there right on time. Always chuckle when someone passes me and then we meet right at the bridge with him circling and me going putt-putt. Dumb a$$.

I'm totally with you on that, if they are bridges you can't fit under. I used to have all those bridges as waypoints in the plotter, so easy to do.

But if you can fit under, why wait for the scheduled opening time?

Ski in NC · Nov 26, 2019

caltexflanc said:
I'm totally with you on that, if they are bridges you can't fit under. I used to have all those bridges as waypoints in the plotter, so easy to do.

But if you can fit under, why wait for the scheduled opening time?

I only do that on bridges I can't pass under. If I can get under the bridge, I go right past the whole herd.

FF · Nov 27, 2019

"We ended up throwing out the anchor in the middle of the ICW."

A tiny Danforth like a 12H is worth setting , even for a 10 min wait.

Takes less time to pull it than make a big turn to get in line.

Roger Long · Nov 27, 2019

I just thought to look up my GPS track for the incident. My post, and memory, seem to give the impression of weaving through a fleet. There was a lot of mental activity making sure I had an out for any unexpected move by a boat ahead but the actual boat handling was mostly with the throttles and gears slowing and stopping to wait for opening or to be sure which direction a boat ahead was committing to. The track only shows one significant diversion and no sudden moves. This was really a non-event but stuck out because of the rude radio call. BTW, I was later assured that the call did not come from anyone in the Sail to the Sun group.

psneeld · Nov 27, 2019

Rude radio calls are the thing of the times...just watch any football game.

I have friends that sit at the dock and yell at wake makers...well actually not.... they yell at people going by too fast..."in their minds eye".

Some days when the local current approaches 3 knots...their untrained eye only catches the apparent speed and not the actual wake. Often I catch them yelling at boats only doing 3-4 knots (still water speed) but to the untrained eye and a speed over ground of 5-6...they looked like they should be producing a wake but aren't. This is usually after the tide swings and boats doing 6-7 knots (still water) before and throwing a big wake appeared they were only 3-4....who didn't get a yell at as often...until the wake hit.

So people thinking you were cutting in line or unnecessarily zigzagging through traffic are often just out of tough with experienced boating.

caltexflanc · Nov 27, 2019

Roger Long said:
I just thought to look up my GPS track for the incident. My post, and memory, seem to give the impression of weaving through a fleet. There was a lot of mental activity making sure I had an out for any unexpected move by a boat ahead but the actual boat handling was mostly with the throttles and gears slowing and stopping to wait for opening or to be sure which direction a boat ahead was committing to. The track only shows one significant diversion and no sudden moves. This was really a non-event but stuck out because of the rude radio call. BTW, I was later assured that the call did not come from anyone in the Sail to the Sun group.

Wappoo Creek, ah yes. Fortunately there is plenty of water width and depth before you get to the bridge. You were doing (though very awkwardly in my opinion) everyone a favor, safety-wise, especially if you had a following current. It really starts ripping once you get to the relatively narrow Elliot Cut.

Passing Before Bridges

Guru

Guru

Senior Member

Guru

Dauntless Award

Master and Commander

Guru

Senior Member

Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Senior Member

Technical Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Guru

Technical Guru

Guru

Senior Member

Attachments

Guru

Guru

Similar threads