Boat build date and Engine MFG. date are 3 years apart..why?

Hi-

We are in the process of doing our due diligence with the purchase of a 2005 43' Selene.

This boat is a 2005 and Cummins has confirmed the engine SN matches a build date of 10/1/2004.

But, the DATA plate on the engine has a MFG date of 2008.. Why would this be? Cummins has stated that no new data plate had been issued for this engine...

Thanks,

Mike

So did you look up the engine number from the tag above? (ESN in Cummins speak)

Ski in NC,

Yes, I called Cummins. They confirmed the build date in 2004 and have never issued another data plate. So, we do not know why the MFG date of 2/19/2008 does not match the data plate.

I am worried if we do not have a paper trail the NEXT buyer will be asking the same questions..

M.

That seems sketchy to me. My Cummins Engine Tag shows the manufacturer date to be about 6 months prior to the boat build which is to be expected. It appears to me that is not the original engine to the boat. Not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, but if they (Broker, Owner, or whoever) didn't disclose that up front, I would be concerned. Good catch.

Also, as Ski notes, I would think you have access to the Cummins data base because you have the Serial no. Quickserve.cummins.com

Put a hold on the sale until it is figured out. I bet it's done in a day or two.

I wouldn't consider the decal a data plate. The ESN would be stamped into the block. Does the engine number on the decal match the number on the block? I am no Cummins expert but I kinda doubt it. More than likely the part the decal is attached to was replaced at some point.

GH41-

Good question. I do not know and no one has looked..Im out of the area now or I could check.

So, according to Cummins those decals can only be issued by them and installed by them and they have no record of another decal being issued.

If the ESN on the block matches the decal then what? The date was just a mis print?

Thanks,

M.

I'll bet the part the decal is attached to was a used part replaced for an unknown to us reason. What cover is the decal attached to?

GH41 said:

I'll bet the part the decal is attached to was a used part replaced for an unknown to us reason...

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If so, the decal ESN, and the one stamped into the block,should not match.

According the the surveyor these QSB engines do not have an ESN stamp on the block.

Here is larger image.

palasz said:

According the the surveyor these QSB engines do not have an ESN stamp on the block.

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So no way to cross check. I`d be reluctant to accept "typo/error" as the explanation. The decal is internally inconsistent with no obvious way to resolve it. Wonder how good Cummins record keeping is? And if it is a Cummins reissue, why was it reissued, with a new later date? Cummins can`t tell you because they say they didn`t issue it/ have no record of issuing it. How about asking on boatdiesel, or asking Cummins expert Tony Athens.

So, what are the other players; the broker, the owner(s), saying? Are you just getting shrugs?
Anything jump out in the 2008-9 logs?

The onus should be placed squarely in the current owners lap as well as the broker and you go forward, or not, based on that outcome

palasz said:

According the the surveyor these QSB engines do not have an ESN stamp on the block.

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Your surveyor is full of ****!

The boat is a 2005 and Cummins says the engine was made in 2004, that makes sense. The mystery is the 08 on the sticker. Does Cummins say who the engine was sold to. If it’s Selene then I would say typo. I would be far more concerned about oil analysts. I might be. Concerned if Cummins said the engine predated the boat by 5 years and was sold to some one other than Selene.

Perhaps the part that the decal is stuck on (looks like the rocker cover) was replaced with one from a different engine?

Could have been done because the original part needed replacement or maybe it was a mistake by some engine shop (inadvertently swapped identical parts).

ssobol said:

Perhaps the part that the decal is stuck on (looks like the rocker cover) was replaced with one from a different engine?...

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Possibly, but the ESN and build date are still a mismatch.

I can't really tell from the photo, but that engine looks to have been repainted -- and that tag looks clean. It also looks too large top-to-bottom for the space, I.e. it overlaps that gap. That seems unlikely for the original location.

Owners replace things over ~15 years.

I just put new ID plates on my transmissions as the originals were lost to time.

I'm betting it is a bootleg sticker.

Now I know nothing about boats so take this post lightly but how about this explanation:. That plate appears to be on the "head" of the block so to speak. I had a 1966 Galaxie 7 Litre with a 66 block but "heads" were stamped c8 indicating someone swapped them out. Is this a possibility here?

C8 stands for 1968 mfg

Fletcher500 said:

they (Broker, Owner, or whoever) didn't disclose that up front, I would be concerned.

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There are no full disclosure laws regarding the sale of boats as there are regarding houses. It is a BUYER BEWARE deal and don't expect anything more.
Though I've owned somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 boats over my lifetime, I've never checked the engine build date against the hull build date. It doesn't seem to be of great importance, nor would it indicate any foul play to me. A builder may purchase a number of engines to get a quantity discount for a run of boats and perhaps the plate was placed on the engine at the time of installation rather than the date of the quantity sale?
Due diligence on an oil test and a mechanic's check out are indeed good things to do, but worrying about the dates seems way beyond something necessary to worry about. You have the info to order parts, which is really the only thing that plate on the engine is important for, to the boat owner.

So, we are passing on this boat. The broker said North Harbor Diesel did an upgrade to increase HP and was required to place new sticker.. But, no paper work to support any of this from Cummins or them... There were other issues with the boat as well. We will wait. Someone else can have this one...

If your not sure it is best to pass unless the price is reduced to a point you can live with.

foreverunderway said:

There are no full disclosure laws regarding the sale of boats as there are regarding houses.

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Disclosure may not be required but this bit doesn’t help a brokers credibility or ethics.

palasz said:

The broker said North Harbor Diesel did an upgrade to increase HP and was required to place new sticker.. But, no paper work to support any of this from Cummins or them.

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I would not walk away quietly and would, at the very least, send a polite email to the local brokerage association.

This might be the boat:
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/selene-43-ocean-trawler-3582591/

If it were me and I otherwise liked the boat I'd get the owner's permission to go talk to NH Diesel. The mods could have been done by a previous owner and fairly innocuous. Possibly the engine was modified with a different chip, after cooler bypassed, different size turbo, injector sizing etc. Kudos to NH Diesel for placing that "modified" sticker.

Other things you say? All other things are negotiable IMHO

In my limited experience, boat brokers seldom know much about the boat or its history. Perhaps you can talk with the selling owner. The engine "rework" in 2008 sounds likely to be the reason for the updated plate. The present 305HP is a little on the high end for the Selene 43, so what was previous HP rating? Hopefully the owner will be able to provide a logical explanation and records for the work. It is easy to get twitchy when buying a boat and suspect the worst, when there is really nothing to be concerned about. As previous, check the oil and get a good engine mechanic when you do your survey. On the face, does not sound like a reason to walk away.

If this is the Selene referenced above, it is equipped as well as one would hope. But in person inspection and not internet sleuthing tells the tale. Possibly you could tell us what bothers you other than the nameplate.