Ford Lehman bolts, inch, metric,?

Need to buy some boat tools. Westerbeke genset is metric but what about the Ford Lehman?

Bob

The base engine for the Ford Lehman 120, the Ford of England Dorset engine, was designed in the late 1950s. The UK did not switch to the metric system until decades later. So the fasteners on the engine are not metric. There may be some "British" fasteners here and there--- Whitworth, BSF, and so forth--- but so far as I know all the fasteners you will typically have to deal with--- valve adjustments, pump attachment nuts and bolts, etc.--- are all the ususal 1/2", 3/8" etc sort of thing.

I bought a Land Rover Series III new in 1973 and still own and drive it today. WIth the exception of a few British-standard fasteners, the whole thing can be taken apart with "normal" tools. Our 1990s Range Rover, however, is a hybrid, with all the smaller fasteners on the vehicle metric but some of the large fasteners on the frame and chassis the standard "inch" sizes.

But the UK hadn't even heard of the metric system when they designed and built the Ford diesels that were marinzed by Lehman.

I haven't found a single metric fitting on mine.

Can I ask the same thing about Perkins? I seem to have both on my 1986 vintage, but I could be wrong. Some could be aftermarket.

My circa 1978 Perkins T6.354 was all inch. No metric anywhere.
Current Ford-Lehman 120 is all inch.

Jay

"jleonard:My circa 1978 Perkins T6.354 was all inch. No metric anywhere.
Current Ford-Lehman 120 is all inch."

Having also owned both Perkins T6.354 and FL120, ditto.And what great engines!
This metric stuff is surely a passing euro conspiracy, we will return to proper measurements and sizing soon. BruceK

Metric makes a whole lot more sense than "inch." it's only people who grew up with inches that have trouble with it. I suspect the world will eventually all be metric, which will be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

The UK was swinging toward metric in 1986 so it's very possible that engines like the Perkins would have metric fasteners on them or even be entirely metric. But Perkins engines of the 60s and 70s would be like the Fords---- standard "inch" fasteners with perhaps a UK-unique fastener thrown in here or there.

Have to agree with the above. My 1979 ish T6.354 is all SAE.

Rob

37' Sedan

We had a Perkins on our sailboat, vintage 1984. It had some metric fittings. Talking to a diesel shop in Houston I was told that somewhere along that time frame Perkins licensed Mazda to build the engines, hence the metric fittings. Ours had a Japanese injection pump, Diesel Kiki I think. I was told the injectors or injection pump could be Japanese or Lucas.

Appreciate the input on the Ford Lehman. Has England ever switched to the metric system?

Bob

Sort of. Fasteners are metric today, and you buy milk and gas by the litre and cheese by the gram But they have hung onto one "inch" measurement, and that is road distances. Unless they have switched within the last year or so, road distances are still called out in miles and speeds are still measured in miles per hour.

They also still cling to some old weight measurements---- people still measure their weight in "stones." I believe--- but I could be wrong--- that a stone is 14 pounds.

And of course they have so far resisted the change to the euro. So British currency is still measured in pounds. Current exchange rate is 1 pound equals about USD $1.50.

Back in the 70's, when you went for part they would ask you if you had a blue Perkins or a red Perkins and of course the serial number of the engine. My understanding was that the blue's were made for the North American Market and the Red's for the UK and UK empire nations. I believe they all used sae fasteners, but the accessories and marinization could be quite different. Usually the red used bosch alternator and starter and fluid measurements were in British units and torques were in KG's. The blues I saw had Delco Remy and measured in lbs and quarts. My 1976 Perkins engine manual gives it in both measures.

I lost a softplug in the freshwater cooler while on a cruise to BC in 1978 and the Perkins dealers there was unable to match the size. I don't know who did their marinization in Canada, but it had some unique differences from the US version.
Larry B

Marin, Your calling SAE measurements "normal" is showing your age. Like in advanced. Even my full sized Buick over 15 years old is metric. I was just say'in to my wife it's time I stopped just getting by w SAE tools. I need to get all metric and keep the SAE tools stored in the garage somewhere. By the way there are two Marin's in Craig Alaska.

Eric--- Actually I don't view SAE as "normal." In my world, metric is normal and has been for many, many years. I used the term "normal" in deference to the other posters who were bemoaning the "arrival" of metric to their world.

I can no longer visualize a mile. When I think lengths and distances I think in terms of metres and kilometres. I haven't made the mental switch to weights, however. I still think it terms of pounds and ounces, not grams and kilograms.

I have FL 120's and except for a couple of wierd threads on a few screws / bolts that aren't metric either, everything is SAE. England changed to the Metric system but not until after the last Lehman's were built. Trivia - the only countries still using the old English system are Myramar, Liberia, and the United States. After living on the boat in Mexico 6 months a year for the past 10 years I have come to love the metric system - I don't have to calculate fractions any more when I measure something, although I still can't get used to temperature in Celcius.

Richard Williams
Freedom - Hatteras 48 LRC

Your 48LRC has Lehman's

rjwilliams11741 said:

I have FL 120's and except for a couple of wierd threads on a few screws / bolts that aren't metric either, everything is SAE. England changed to the Metric system but not until after the last Lehman's were built. Trivia - the only countries still using the old English system are Myramar, Liberia, and the United States. After living on the boat in Mexico 6 months a year for the past 10 years I have come to love the metric system - I don't have to calculate fractions any more when I measure something, although I still can't get used to temperature in Celcius.

Richard Williams
Freedom - Hatteras 48 LRC

Click to expand...

Your 48LRC has Ford Lehman's instead of Detroit 453's, How'd this come about?

Freedom, our 48 LRC does have Ford Lehman 120's rather than the Detroits. How this came about I don't know, I have been told that there are a couple of others with the Lehman's but I'm not sure how many were equipped that way. I'm very happy with the Lehmans - they are pretty bulletproof. Freedom is also one of only 2 or three 48's that were built with 3 staterooms. Our LRC is a 1976, was brought to the west coast on her own bottom via the Panama Canal and lived in Seattle, Los Angeles, and San Diego before we bought her. Had her in the Benicia Marina, Benicia for a while and lived aboard her for a year at Ox Bow Marina in Isleton before retiring and cruising her down the Mexican Coast in 2003. Been in Mexico ever since, cruising as far south as Zijauntaneo and up into the Sea of Cortez for a couple of times. We keep her at Paradise Village Marina in Nuevo Vallarta during the off season. We have been very happy with her seaworthiness and economy. She has taken some very heavy and challenging seas without a whimper.

We currently have a very asthetically challenged houseboat berthed at Willow Berm marina in Isleton for use in the summer when we are back in the states. I see you are from Walnut Grove - hope we can catch up with each other this summer in the delta and swap LRC "hints".

Richard Williams
Freedom, Hatteras 48 LRC

keep in touch

rjwilliams11741 said:

Freedom, our 48 LRC does have Ford Lehman 120's rather than the Detroits. How this came about I don't know, I have been told that there are a couple of others with the Lehman's but I'm not sure how many were equipped that way. I'm very happy with the Lehmans - they are pretty bulletproof. Freedom is also one of only 2 or three 48's that were built with 3 staterooms. Our LRC is a 1976, was brought to the west coast on her own bottom via the Panama Canal and lived in Seattle, Los Angeles, and San Diego before we bought her. Had her in the Benicia Marina, Benicia for a while and lived aboard her for a year at Ox Bow Marina in Isleton before retiring and cruising her down the Mexican Coast in 2003. Been in Mexico ever since, cruising as far south as Zijauntaneo and up into the Sea of Cortez for a couple of times. We keep her at Paradise Village Marina in Nuevo Vallarta during the off season. We have been very happy with her seaworthiness and economy. She has taken some very heavy and challenging seas without a whimper.

We currently have a very asthetically challenged houseboat berthed at Willow Berm marina in Isleton for use in the summer when we are back in the states. I see you are from Walnut Grove - hope we can catch up with each other this summer in the delta and swap LRC "hints".

Richard Williams
Freedom, Hatteras 48 LRC

Click to expand...

My boat spent most of it's life in the Seattle area as well, having transited the canal from the east coast. The previous owner cruised her as far south as Guatemala and back to Seattle where he lived aboard. I brought her down here with the intention of living aboard and cruising back up to Alaska for the summers. I haven't had a huge desire to cruise Baha because of much of the bad press Mexico gets. I would like to pick your brain about cruising tips for trips south. I agree these old boats are incredible in rough conditions.

rjwilliams11741 said:

Trivia - the only countries still using the old English system are Myramar, Liberia, and the United States.

Click to expand...

Whoa up there. Let's not get too carried away with the supposed merits and inevitability of the metric system. I lived through Canada's so-called metrification and 40 years later I still buy plywood and dimensional lumber in SAE units. If I go to the hardware store I'll have to search hard and it will have to be an exceptional store before I find metric bolts - forget about finding them in Home Depot or Lowes. The speed limits on my highways are metric, mostly but our land survey system predates metrification so good luck finding a farmer that knows anything about hectares and the next farm over will be a mile and a half away rather than 2.3712 km. Pressure is still PSI; temperature is more or less celcius; I buy a pound of butter and 4 litres of milk. Anybody who tells you that Canada is a metric country doesn't live here or has their eyes closed to reality.

To bring this back to boat maintenance, all that metrification has accomplished is to increase the tool complement that I need to carry. Despite not finding metric bolts on my Lehmans I need to carry a set of metric wrenches - I can't remember why I bought them & I hardly ever dig them out but I did need them at least once. Same thing on my land based life - have to carry metric tools but have to go looking for them when I need them because it happens so seldom. My miserable POS Ford Exploder has both metric and SAE fasteners so I can pretty well always count on having the wrong tool in hand when I work on it.

[[[[[[[[[[
Originally Posted by rjwilliams11741
Trivia - the only countries still using the old English system are Myramar, Liberia, and the United States.]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

I resent that comment that leaves Canada out. We've gone one better. The country is 1/2 and 1/2 and its called METRINCH.
Means when hanging upside down you never know what you are going to find untill too late. Metric and inch on the same darn engine.

The extra thinking squeezes the blood back to the toes??????? good exercize for us retired folk.

Yeah, I'm like Bob, gotta be able to work both and double the screwups and tool caddy.

Looking at a socket set at Lowes that claims to work both inch and metric sizes with one set of sockets. Anybody ever used one of those? The sockets have a series of round bars inside instead of being hex shaped or having twelve points.

Bob

BobH said:

Looking at a socket set at Lowes that claims to work both inch and metric sizes with one set of sockets. Anybody ever used one of those? The sockets have a series of round bars inside instead of being hex shaped or having twelve points.
Bob

Click to expand...

Sounds like it would be a good idea to buy a couple pair of vice grips at the same time. Or maybe save the money on the super dooper sockets and just go directly to the vice grips. Sorry, but I've never found any shortcuts to using the right tools.

Greetings,
I posted this comment (or I at least THOUGHT I did) either here or on another thread. Buy a proper set of SAE tools. The only additions necessary to work on a metric vehicle/apparatus are a 10mm and 17mm wrench/socket. I used to fix a friend's VW beetle and did just fine with tool assortment mentioned for 99.9% of tasks. Now socket head cap screws are a different matter.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
I posted this comment (or I at least THOUGHT I did) either here or on another thread. Buy a proper set of SAE tools. The only additions necessary to work on a metric vehicle/apparatus are a 10mm and 17mm wrench/socket. I used to fix a friend's VW beetle and did just fine with tool assortment mentioned for 99.9% of tasks. Now socket head cap screws are a different matter.

Click to expand...

The only thing missing in that assortment is the 36mm socket to remove the beetles flywheel.

BobH said:

Looking at a socket set at Lowes that claims to work both inch and metric sizes with one set of sockets. Anybody ever used one of those? The sockets have a series of round bars inside instead of being hex shaped or having twelve points.

Bob

Click to expand...

I have tried, with limited success, to use those socket on a few rounded-off bolt heads. They to that pretty well, but that's about it. The problem with using them to replace a standard set is space. Those sockets are larger that standard and often not able to get into the space needed to work as advertised.

BTW... METRIC ALL THE WAY BABY!! Just think... you would NEVER need to teach children fractions every again. Having a base 10 system of measure would be as easy to understand as our base 10 monetary system. The problem is the old grunts that just refuse to change "the way it's always been so it must be the best". News flash... it isn't.

Actually I do have the 36mm socket and a 3/4" breaker bar to go with it. Also works on the 356 Porsches. 320 ftlbs as I recall, breaker bar and a piece of pipe extension handle.

Bob

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
I posted this comment (or I at least THOUGHT I did) either here or on another thread. Buy a proper set of SAE tools. The only additions necessary to work on a metric vehicle/apparatus are a 10mm and 17mm wrench/socket. I used to fix a friend's VW beetle and did just fine with tool assortment mentioned for 99.9% of tasks. Now socket head cap screws are a different matter.

Click to expand...

RTF,

You left out 13mm. But the Japanese are found of some of the others as well.

Greetings,
Well Mr. JD, it's either my SAE sockets were so worn that I could always find one to fit or my...
Triskaidekaphobia

36mm for the flywheel nut???? What's wrong with the cold chisel and sledge method? Providing of course you stay away from the roller bearing insert.
Mr. bobofthenorth. Now would that be metric or SAE vice grips?

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
36mm for the flywheel nut???? What's wrong with the cold chisel and sledge method? Providing of course you stay away from the roller bearing insert.

Click to expand...

Not a thing in the world, kind a tough to get a torque wrench on during re-installation though

Can't help much there. I have enough of both that I don't buy sockets anymore except for true oddball situations.

I'll just point out, to me anyways, that one size fits all usually have a big screwup factor somewhere. Some fasteners they will fit well and some not so well. Some metric and inch sizes are dimensionally so close they are interchangeable. Some though, although they may fit, they may damage the fastener if it is tight. Often are good in light duty situations but if you really have to pull hard on the wrench/socket then they can ruin a fastener.

Often a really tight hex head fastener can only be dealt with a six point tool. The 12 points although more universally applicable will ruin the head particularily with smaller fasteners.

I've looked at those sort of semi spline sockets but haven't tried them. I'm sure they would be a good way to keep the tool count down but just be aware that there will be some fasteners they may damage if tight.

If you go that route buy good quality tools and be aware of the limitations.

There's all sorts of bodges that might work most of the time but when its O-dark:30 and you need to get it done there's no substitute for exactly the right tool. And in the big scheme of things having all the right tools doesn't really cost that much. Its a PITA having to carry metric and SAE but I don't need nearly the range of metric wrenches so I maybe carry a dozen or 18 metric wrenches in total c/w likely over 100 SAE.