Isenglass and Sunbrella stitching

I pulled my flybridge canvas out of summer storage and cleaned up the Isenglass, reapplied waterproofing and went to reinstall the panels for the upcoming colder weather.

They look great, but as I started zipping everything together, the zipper stitching on a number of the panels pulled out with the stress. Crap.

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure to get the zippers all restitched? 7 panels on a 38’ boat. 19 zippers all between 3-4’. Fortunately the Bimini is newer and still in great shape.

Trying to decide if this is a do it now or do it later project based on the cost.

I’m not opposed to wearing a heavier coat but also like the toasty comfort of an enclosed flybrige and a space heater [emoji16]️

I don’t know what someone would charge to restitch them because I do all my own canvas work. But whoever you have do it make sure they are using Tenara thread. It will last forever. If your canvas is in decent shape the Tenara will last the life of the canvas.

There are a few different treads one could use.

This is what I prefer and used on my last project.

https://www.sailrite.com/Notions/Threads/Lifetime-Thread

Re-sewing zippers is not hard work, I would look for a local place that deals with boat canvas, as they will have the proper tread and machines vs a seamstress in town. If you have time you could probably buy an old machine for what they will charge in labor and you can do your own work, sailright has a few very good video's.

If you were in the PNW that would prob cost you about $300.00

Comodave said:

I don’t know what someone would charge to restitch them because I do all my own canvas work. But whoever you have do it make sure they are using Tenara thread. It will last forever. If your canvas is in decent shape the Tenara will last the life of the canvas.

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The canvas is in really good shape, as are the Isenglass windows, so I think repair is the way to go. I would love to do them myself, but don't access to the equipment, and the Admiral would never allow such a purchase without an obvious benefit down the road. As we don't have anything else that needs canvas on the boat, not much argument there from me.

If I send it to you, want to take a stab at it? :lol:

BradC said:

The canvas is in really good shape, as are the Isenglass windows, so I think repair is the way to go. I would love to do them myself, but don't access to the equipment, and the Admiral would never allow such a purchase without an obvious benefit down the road. As we don't have anything else that needs canvas on the boat, not much argument there from me.

If I send it to you, want to take a stab at it? :lol:

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Shipping may be a bit, but sure send them over as I just picked up a new machine!

BradC said:

The canvas is in really good shape, as are the Isenglass windows, so I think repair is the way to go. I would love to do them myself, but don't access to the equipment, and the Admiral would never allow such a purchase without an obvious benefit down the road. As we don't have anything else that needs canvas on the boat, not much argument there from me.

If I send it to you, want to take a stab at it? :lol:

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I wouldn’t mind helping you out, just as soon as I get the fuel tank replaced in my boat. Right now my schedule is a bit full. If the canvas is good then get it restitched with Tenara or the alternate thread in one of the replies and you will be good to go for many years. I don’t understand why people scrimp on thread when they spend thousands on canvas and don’t spend a hundred more to get thread that will last the lifetime of the canvas. Canvas fabricators must like the restitching work or else they would advise the customer up front about it. Good luck with the project.

Comodave said:

I wouldn’t mind helping you out, just as soon as I get the fuel tank replaced in my boat. Right now my schedule is a bit full. If the canvas is good then get it restitched with Tenara or the alternate thread in one of the replies and you will be good to go for many years. I don’t understand why people scrimp on thread when they spend thousands on canvas and don’t spend a hundred more to get thread that will last the lifetime of the canvas. Canvas fabricators must like the restitching work or else they would advise the customer up front about it. Good luck with the project.

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I might just try to find a used machine and give it a go. I like the idea of doing it myself. I'm with you on the thread choice. Seems like a no-brainer to do it right the first time!

Restitching is pretty easy, just need a decent machine with a walking foot and has adjustable tension for the thread. Tenera thread is fairly slippery compared to poly thread.

BradC said:

I might just try to find a used machine and give it a go. I like the idea of doing it myself. I'm with you on the thread choice. Seems like a no-brainer to do it right the first time!

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That's how I got started. Was quoted 500.00 to fix some simple stuff. I went out and used that 500.00 and bought an old Singer 111w Walking foot. Used that machine for a year and ended up doing side work, so I bought a new machine.
Sold the Singer to someone that wanted an cost effective way to build a new canvas for his boat just using the old one as a pattern and on down the line it went. There are a few tips and tricks, but really its not all that hard. Watch some of the Sailright videos to get you on the right track. If you can, stick with a Singer or a copy of a Singer (Consew). Parts are easy to find.

If you have any canvas on the boat, the sewing machine will pay for itself in short time.

Renewing zippers is one use.

Replacing the isenglass will definitely pay for the machine.

I bought a new Sailrite walking foot machine back in the 90's for $200 - $300. It paid for itself on sewing Perfertex window covers.

I would buy a new machine and go for it. After paying $6k for an entire new enclosure, windshield cover, bimini and skylight cover, I decided to do my own from that point on. Could have done it all for a little over half that, including buying a new machine. We ended up with a new Sailrite LSZ-1 Premium package with the canvas makers kit. Great investment and has already paid for itself (minus the previous $6k that is). Patience and attention to detail are the keys to getting it right.

Redhook98 said:

I would buy a new machine and go for it. After paying $6k for an entire new enclosure, windshield cover, bimini and skylight cover, I decided to do my own from that point on. Could have done it all for a little over half that, including buying a new machine. We ended up with a new Sailrite LSZ-1 Premium package with the canvas makers kit. Great investment and has already paid for itself (minus the previous $6k that is). Patience and attention to detail are the keys to getting it right.

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Alright, I'm convinced. I'm going to start looking for a suitable machine to use, buy the Gore thread as recommended and will have a project to do when it's too cold to boat.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and the encouragement. I'll post pic's when the job is completed. I look forward to the challenge.

Brad

My Sailrite machine has saved me over $12K since I bought it. Mine isn’t made any longer but it kicks ass when sewing canvas. Get the upgraded motor with which ever machine you get. Mine will walk one stitch at a time through 8 layers of Sunbrella.

BradC said:

Alright, I'm convinced. I'm going to start looking for a suitable machine to use, buy the Gore thread as recommended and will have a project to do when it's too cold to boat.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and the encouragement. I'll post pic's when the job is completed. I look forward to the challenge.

Brad

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Good move - I don't think you will regret it if you find a decent machine. Many of us have SailRights but there are others. I added the monster wheel to my SR and recommend it. Slower speed more power is good for the novice. The pros want to go fast but time not critical to most of us.
There is a "thread" on DIY Canvas Tips that might help getting started. Biggest improvement after acquiring a machine is to set up a decent work space w plenty of flat work surface around the machine.

Agree that you want a huge flat area around the machine, as big as you can fit. It just makes handling the panels much easier. I have a 4’X8’ table that sits beside the machine and a3’X6’ table that sits behind the machine. You don’t have to have that much but as big as you have room for. I use Cadet Gray Sunbrella so I have a roll of it on the wall ready to unroll like a window shade for any next project. Good luck and let us know how it goes. If you buy a Sailrite machine, call and ask Matt to set the machine up for Tenara thread and he will get all the tensions set for you.

Don't be afraid to take the plunge and DIY. I wanted window coverings (Phifertex) on our NT32 and was quoted about $2500. I invested that into a sailrite setup and materials. So far I have done the window covers, vinyl snap in floor covering, winch, flag, cooler, outboard and BBQ covers. New seat cushions covers are next. It was not that hard. While not always as perfect as what I could buy it is an enjoyable process and I get better each time.

Comodave said:

I don’t know what someone would charge to restitch them because I do all my own canvas work. But whoever you have do it make sure they are using Tenara thread. It will last forever. If your canvas is in decent shape the Tenara will last the life of the canvas.

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I do my own canvas also. I prefer sticking to 92 polyester thread for a couple of reasons. First the lifetime threads are expensive, second...when I last looked I seem to remember that the stuff was size 120-122 and that for me is like sewing with string. In the OP’s case, I would not spend the extra bucks for the stuff especially when both his canvas and vinyl are nearing the end of life.

My other reason is when polyester starts to fail most of the other stuff is about to fail also. But resewing in not a big deal in any case IF done prior to everything parting out. To each his own I guess.

Second for the V92 thread. It's UV resistant and easier to sew with.
I bought an inexpensive chinese clone of the sailright. Works OK but getting the tension right is trial and error. Mostly error.

(I had the 3 front panel zippers replaced at a shop. $100 each.)

When you are doing a $5000 enclosure job, $120 for lifetime thread is insignificant. A $5000 job might cost me around $1000 to do myself. I have done canvas for 4 boats and I am on my second spool of Tenara. So the thread cost per boat is about $60. That isn’t even a consideration. But if you like using poly thread and having to restitch, go ahead. I don’t have any trouble setting the tension on my Sailrite machine.

Comodave said:

When you are doing a $5000 enclosure job, $120 for lifetime thread is insignificant. A $5000 job might cost me around $1000 to do myself. I have done canvas for 4 boats and I am on my second spool of Tenara. So the thread cost per boat is about $60. That isn’t even a consideration. But if you like using poly thread and having to restitch, go ahead. I don’t have any trouble setting the tension on my Sailrite machine.

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Yeah, when doing a $5K job..........sure if you want to. BUT the OP is RESEWING stuff that should be close to end of life. Why spend the extra bucks plus putting up with difficult stuff to sew with.

foggysail said:

Yeah, when doing a $5K job..........sure if you want to. BUT the OP is RESEWING stuff that should be close to end of life. Why spend the extra bucks plus putting up with difficult stuff to sew with.

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But he said the panels look good and the bimini is new so why not spend a bit more and be done with it forever? Also, Tenara isn’t difficult to sew with if you set the tension properly on the machine. It isn’t any more difficult to sew with than poly thread. And as to cost, if the fabricator sews with Tenara, the cost of the Tenara for restitching would probably be in the $20 to $30 range extra. He will not be using maybe a 1/4 of a spool.

Check out the Mini Brute. For $650 it is a great machine. I built my entire Bimini with one. 9 panels and 5 windows. Also restitch all the seams in the top. If the zippers are gone so is the rest of it.

Ok guys, you are all killing me. Paid big bucks for new sundeck and flybridge enclosures this past spring. Thought about doing it myself, but with 12 windows total decided it was a bit too much for me, although I have sewn sail covers in the past. But I did insist on lifetime thread, and American made zippers with lifetime warranty. Strataglass 40 for the clear plastic. But I am working on new pfifertex (sp?) window covers for the front windows - going with the 90% type. Kudos to all of you that have sewn your own enclosures

ps, the new enclosures are not in my avatar photo

Good thing that you got lifetime thread, very wise decision. Enjoy your new canvas.

I just bought a sailrite zigzag and we are just starting to practice with it, I have to admit the tension setting adjustments are kicking my butt. But I'm very new at this I will keep trying.

Comodave said:

But he said the panels look good and the bimini is new so why not spend a bit more and be done with it forever? Also, Tenara isn’t difficult to sew with if you set the tension properly on the machine. It isn’t any more difficult to sew with than poly thread. And as to cost, if the fabricator sews with Tenara, the cost of the Tenara for restitching would probably be in the $20 to $30 range extra. He will not be using maybe a 1/4 of a spool.

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Capitaine R said:

I just bought a sailrite zigzag and we are just starting to practice with it, I have to admit the tension setting adjustments are kicking my butt. But I'm very new at this I will keep trying.

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Call them and they will help you get it setup correctly. They were very helpful when I bought my machine 8 years ago.

I did canvas and window coverings last year while learning my brand new sail rite.

Also went to Tenara.

Do lots of experiments until you learn tension. Then learn Tenara.

To do Tenara, I learned by cranking the tension to the point that the sewing thread stops feeding, really tight, then back it off until it just starts, and then tiny incremental back offs until you get it balanced.

Once I got the secret, I could mostly reproduce at will.

Capitaine R said:

I just bought a sailrite zigzag and we are just starting to practice with it, I have to admit the tension setting adjustments are kicking my butt. But I'm very new at this I will keep trying.

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There is a DIY Canvas thread here on TF.
It would be great if someone familiarxw Tenera thread would post some tips for others benefits.

foggysail said:

I do my own canvas also. I prefer sticking to 92 polyester thread for a couple of reasons. First the lifetime threads are expensive, second...when I last looked I seem to remember that the stuff was size 120-122 and that for me is like sewing with string. In the OP’s case, I would not spend the extra bucks for the stuff especially when both his canvas and vinyl are nearing the end of life.

My other reason is when polyester starts to fail most of the other stuff is about to fail also. But resewing in not a big deal in any case IF done prior to everything parting out. To each his own I guess.

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AU Contrarie! My huge flybridge enclosure--- though a minor work of art-- started falling apart after just 5 years in the Florida sun. I had to pay $700 dollars to get it restitched with TENARA … Tenara is also much stronger. So for an additional cost of about$40 by the previous owner I had to pay $700!!!Plus the work of removing transporting and re-installing. My previous boat's Sunbrella fabric lasted 15 years , with Tenara thread of course !!!!

Comodave said:

Call them and they will help you get it setup correctly. They were very helpful when I bought my machine 8 years ago.

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I purchased our sailrite used on craigslist and I'm practicing with the thread and remnants of material the PO gave us. It seems like i can get the tension settings just fine for half of the stitching and then it will start showing knots on one side or the other during the same line. I have no idea how old the thread is and was thinking maybe that could be the problem. I have new lifetime thread, along with some phifertex on order. If I have the same problem while practicing with the new thread I will give them a call. I will definitely get it right before I plunge the needle into the phifertex.