Florida ICW Poop Patrol

There’s a new push for no-discharge zones. Vero Beach Municipal Marina has taken interesting measures.


https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler-news/no-discharge-zone-for-indian-river-florida

Marinas can make their own rules because they're private property (in this case, the city of Vero Beach would be the lessee). For example, the discharge of treated waste is legal on the entire Chesapeake Bay except for one small harbor (Herring Bay), yet several marinas on the Bay have declared themselves an NDZ. As for the group trying to make that entire section of the ICW an NDZ...all that's really needed is enforcement of existing federal law. Unfortunately that argument didn't prevent another group of enviro-zealot bullies from succeeding in making Puget Sound an unneeded NDZ.



--Peggie

So Vero Beach wants a NDZ? Don't forget to tell all the tourists not to pee in the ocean, while swimming.

Greetings,
Perhaps someone with too much time on their hands and a few spare $$ can launch a lawsuit on behalf of the local sea creatures against Vero Beach the next time the town has an "oopsie" with their sewage or get the ASPCA involved, with any settlement going to them.

Not sure when VB City Marina made that change but I stayed there twice this year, once in a slip and once at the fuel dock after a late arrival, and even had long chats with Sean both times. No one came on board nor requested that I pump out or tag.

Proving last pump out would be problematic as my second stay is always after having just crossed back and my tank would have been completely empty.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Perhaps someone with too much time on their hands and a few spare $$ can launch a lawsuit on behalf of the local sea creatures against Vero Beach the next time the town has an "oopsie" with their sewage or get the ASPCA involved, with any settlement going to them.

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I totally agree with you, if Vero Beach has an sewage spill, treated or untreated. The EPA should should fine the City a SIGNIFICANT and escalating amount.

The City of Atlanta made a decision to pay the fines rather than repair their sewage system. Seems the fines were less than the cost of repairing their system. Plus the cities have insurance to cover these spills.

Greetings,
Mr. OD. The only problem I can see with the EPA approach is that the $$ stays in the government loop. EPA, federal govt agency takes the $$, puts it in the federal "pot" and if the offender applies to the feds for funding for something it basically gets that $$ back. Same pair of pants, different pockets. Sure, the $$ may not get applied to sewage control but juggling funds is a skill practiced by most jurisdictions.



Now, IF those $$ disappear into private hands, it's out of the loop and lost. That's why I suggested the ASPCA, just as an example. As I mentioned, if some individual started a non profit for the protection of sea anemones, say, they might be able to sue a municipality for polluting/killing those poor Anthozoa.


IF Atlanta or any other place was fined BIG $$, enough times, they would most probably lose insurance. Insurance companies don't like paying out large sums multiple times.

Hmmm Firefly,
How can there be a NDZ if the fish poop in the same area?
I am not advocating we do away with NDZs.
As per sending the money to ASPCA, I have no problem with that IF and only IF the ASPCA stops their fund raising TV commercials and are held accountable for the way they spend the money.

Per the insurance companies... those that insure boats have been know to drop boaters and find another line of insurance.

As we used to say on our old subs ...

OldDan1943 said:

So Vero Beach wants a NDZ? Don't forget to tell all the tourists not to pee in the ocean, while swimming.

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... dilution is the solution.

WRT discharge zones ... we have other problems for the lagoon. This little tidbit from the Brevard county Indian River Lagoon organization (next county north of Vero)

coop the Poop!

Dog waste is cited as the 3rd or 4th largest contributor of bacterial pollution in urban watersheds.

The average dog produces approximately 3/4 pounds of poop every day. 1,000 dogs will produce 750 pounds of excrement a week. There are approximately 30,000 dogs in the city of Boulder alone. That’s a lot of poop! Do your part- pick up after your dog. It’s the neighborly thing to do!

Dog feces have higher phosphorous concentrations than found in cow and swine manure. Phosphorus is a nutrient that negatively impacts water quality and plant species. Nitrogen, found in dog urine, also causes contaminated runoff and leads to serious water quality issues.

Greetings,
Mr. OD. All good points to which I don't know the answers due to the fact I am unaware of any mechanism by which one might force municipalities to "clean up their acts". It's the old "You can't fight city hall" syndrome.


That being said, I have NO problems with NDZ's provided cities and towns will be judged by the SAME criteria across the board.

OldDan1943 said:

So Vero Beach wants a NDZ? Don't forget to tell all the tourists not to pee in the ocean, while swimming.

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I would offer that peeing in the ocean is a different body of water than dumping raw sewerage into the ICW.

Personally, I wouldn't want anyone discharging their raw sewerage from their holding tanks next to my clean (?) white hull. Ew!!!

Jim

JLD said:

I would offer that peeing in the ocean is a different body of water than dumping raw sewerage into the ICW.

Personally, I wouldn't want anyone discharging their raw sewerage from their holding tanks next to my clean (?) white hull. Ew!!!

Jim

Click to expand...

Dumping raw sewage in the ICW is illegal anyway. An NDZ makes it also illegal to discharge treated sewage.

Will be picking up a mooring in Vero Beach this afternoon. The drill is to come to the fuel dock for a pumpout, then they want to tie wrap you Y valve shut before you go to the mooring field. I've decided not to argue with him. I'm going to open the lazarette hatch, let him climb down in, and cable the valve closed. Only problem he will have is that the valve handle is in the drawer next to the helm.

I shall report back on how it all went tomorrow. I do understand their problem though. They have a lot of mooring and encourage rafting during the peak snowbird season. While these long term transients aren't exclusively sailboaters.... If you look at the satellite image on Google maps, you can better understand the problem. Not much water flow and too many frugal sailboaters. Moorage is very inexpensive there ($16.25 per night / $375 per month).

Stay tuned for tomorrow's report.

Ted

Greetings,
A couple of years ago we had a monthly renter slipped immediately beside us in one of the Fort Lauderdale canals. He dumped several times a day. The outflow was a brown sludge. I suspect it may have been "treated". I did not report him because he was a real piece of work and I honestly feared reprisals/damages to our boat in our absence. I neglected to note the name of his vessel so I could report him after he left.

There is no place in New England where you can discharge IN the marina. Quite honestly, I find it surprising that anyone is outraged or surprised that such ordinances are being passed. I'm personally astounded that one didn't exist to begin with.

The 'Fish poop in the ocean' is really a weak argument. Pound for Pound (ton for ton) fish have nothing in comparison to the production of human waste. The volume contributed to a marina by the fish is nothing compared to that of the boats.

Shrew said:

There is no place in New England where you can discharge IN the marina. Quite honestly, I find it surprising that anyone is outraged or surprised that such ordinances are being passed. I'm personally astounded that one didn't exist to begin with.

The 'Fish poop in the ocean' is really a weak argument. Pound for Pound (ton for ton) fish have nothing in comparison to the production of human waste. The volume contributed to a marina by the fish is nothing compared to that of the boats.

Click to expand...

Depends if you're talking bacteria or nutrients. Devices that treat waste cut the bacterial count down to almost nothing. As far as nutrients go.... the golf course next door puts far more fertilizer in the water than any Marina ever will.

Here in Stuart ,fl the county has a free (no tip) pump out boat, so easy to request a pump by email or phone. Why wouldn't boaters here use it. There
is a movement to clean up florida waters and finally it is starting to happen...

silentfaith said:

Here in Stuart ,fl the county has a free (no tip) pump out boat, so easy to request a pump by email or phone. Why wouldn't boaters here use it. There
is a movement to clean up florida waters and finally it is starting to happen...

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Can you explain why you think a NDZ would do that, given that it only impacts treated black water? The discharge of non-treated is already covered by law.

Greetings,
Mr. m. Don't all boats have some sort of holding tank? The only thing a treatment system does is allow longer times between pump outs. Any area where you CAN discharge treated black water, saves on filling up limited (in some cases) holding tank capacity.

While I totally agree that black water should not be discharged in a marina (and pumped out wherever practical), this case sounds like another example of "trying to politically appear to be doing something" for the environment. In this case almost totally ineffective (as it only affects treated water) but we all know that pleasure boaters are the "easy target" for the politicians. The uninformed will "buy in" that this new law is a great idea.

Runoff from the land is by far a larger contributor to water pollution, but they never seem to address that at all because they are too busy trying to pick the fly sh-t out of the pepper!
After the major sources of pollution are addressed, then maybe go after the small contributors?

I truly think it's because most people don't understand the different aspects of boating, or what NDZs really are.....

Heck ....a lot of people here on the Trawler Forum don't know what NDZs really are or understand all aspects aspects of boating.

PJHoffnet said:

Dog waste is cited as the 3rd or 4th largest contributor of bacterial pollution in urban watersheds.

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The math here is ONLY accurate if 0% of dog owners pick up and dispose of their dog's waste. And from what I have observed, many people do. It is getting more "culturally correct" for people to pick up their dog's poop, but there is still a few idiot holdouts that refuse to. Claiming the rain will take care of it. True enough I suppose, but until then, the rest of us have to step in it.

California is not proud of the cow farts and poop in a stream.

The bread makers were collared with reducing the CO2 discharge released from the rising bread. Some closed up shop and moved.
There used to be a bakery in Detroit..... drive past that and my mouth would water and stomach would growl. Alas, they went out of business for economic reasons and the unions.

O C Diver said:

Will be picking up a mooring in Vero Beach this afternoon. The drill is to come to the fuel dock for a pumpout, then they want to tie wrap you Y valve shut before you go to the mooring field. I've decided not to argue with him. I'm going to open the lazarette hatch, let him climb down in, and cable the valve closed. Only problem he will have is that the valve handle is in the drawer next to the helm.

I shall report back on how it all went tomorrow. I do understand their problem though. They have a lot of mooring and encourage rafting during the peak snowbird season. While these long term transients aren't exclusively sailboaters.... If you look at the satellite image on Google maps, you can better understand the problem. Not much water flow and too many frugal sailboaters. Moorage is very inexpensive there ($16.25 per night / $375 per month).

Stay tuned for tomorrow's report.

Ted

Click to expand...

Well we're on the mooring.
Check in was pretty much a non event. We pumped out, went to the office, filled out the standard paperwork, and were given a serial numbered zip tie. They requested I zip tie the Y valve or in my case the seacock, closed. After informing them there was no handle, they said to put the zip tie around the hose. Done. No inspection and no fuss. My guess is that they size up vessels and owners to figure out who needs inspecting, but that's just a guess.

Can't argue with the price; one night with pumpout was $17.39. Area is severed by free public buses 15 minutes before the hour till 7pm. They will take you to lots of local restaurants, all sorts of supermarkets, and the local West Marine. Only spending one night, but will spend a couple of days next time.

This place is a sailboat magnet on the moorings. Lots of powerboats at the docks. Think there is one other powerboat in the mooring field with us. Oh well.

Ted

There was a article awhile back about how Seattle's homeless "problem" is creating a serious enviro issue due to the homeless crapping where they may and it washing off into the sound.. I would look it up but i don't give a crap!
I would much rather deal with fido poo vs that of some sick drug addict.
When its all said and done I bet the total actual marine discharge is a drop in the bucket vs. dogs and homeless runoff.
HOLLYWOOD

hollywood8118 said:

There was a article awhile back about how Seattle's homeless "problem" is creating a serious enviro issue due to the homeless crapping where they may and it washing off into the sound.. I would look it up but i don't give a crap!
I would much rather deal with fido poo vs that of some sick drug addict.
When its all said and done I bet the total actual marine discharge is a drop in the bucket vs. dogs and homeless runoff.
HOLLYWOOD

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Add in the nitrates from golf course fertilizer.

...and what about the human sized poop of Canadian Geese!

Is this an eradication opportunity?

Come on Menzies....... What have you got against our Air Force. Scramble the Geese! Scramble all of the Geese!!

menzies said:

...and what about the human sized poop of Canadian Geese!

Is this an eradication opportunity?

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Illegal aliens from the Canada.

Ted

Really Ted....who says we have started a slow "take over"?? First the Geese, then the Ducks, maybe then the River Otters.......