Engine question

I’m very interested in a 65 foot boat that has twin Man i6 800. I know they are made in Germany and are popular with buses and trucking, but that’s as much as I know. How is their parts distribution in the U.S.? Are they slow and expensive like Volvo? Can your average mechanic work on them? I’m only a 2 out of 5 rating mechanic myself. Sorry for all these questions but I’m more familiar with CAT. Than Man. I bow to TF for their knowledge and honesty.

Those are high hp engines for a not so big boat. I assume it goes fast. You have the usual problems of exhaust gas temperatures and engine lifespan. MAN makes a good, reliable engine. My experience is the big engines and parts are available world wide. But it's not like parts for a US made engine. There is a big parts depot on the East Coast, don't know of one out west. On ship engines, ordered parts will be waiting at your next port or flown out to you for lots of $.
You don't have the ease of parts in every state and every big city like with Cat, Cummins, or Detroit. I don't know the availability of trained MAN mechanics. Non MAN mechanics are not going to have the diagnostic tools needed on all newer engines. The typical marina mechanic will probably have no experience with MAN. Because MAN isn't as widely used in the US, there aren't aftermarket parts. So everything is whatever price MAN charges.

Compared to Volvo? A steam engine would be better than a Volvo. At least a blacksmith shop could make you a part.
You might try https://www.yachtforums.com/. Mostly East Coast, bigger yachts, and more MAN engines there.

I mostly agree with Lepke's comments above. Although I don't use them (do all work myself) I believe that many marine diesel mechanics won't touch an engine that they are not familiar with. If you can find someone local who will work with you and maintain the engines, then ok. The Man is a very solid engine. As noted you might have to wait for parts to be shipped across country or across the pond.


David

One member of the forum has a big vessel (Terra Nova Explorer) with MAN engines. His boat is named Super MAN and his user name is 101Tug.

L

Captain Glenn said:

I’m very interested in a 65 foot boat that has twin Man i6 800. I know they are made in Germany and are popular with buses and trucking, but that’s as much as I know. How is their parts distribution in the U.S.? Are they slow and expensive like Volvo? Can your average mechanic work on them? I’m only a 2 out of 5 rating mechanic myself. Sorry for all these questions but I’m more familiar with CAT. Than Man. I bow to TF for their knowledge and honesty.

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Wifey B: Love my MAN'S.

We have or have had several boat with MAN's. Now, I'm assuming you're talking recent somewhat recent engines. I don't go back that far, but assuming we're talking MAN Common Rail. Any complaints I've heard were from before common rail.

Parts distribution and repairs are fine. You get certified MAN mechanics. Now, CAT may be more prevalent in the US but worldwide they don't come close in volume. Definitely not slow.

We have 800's on my fave boat, my Baby Riva. 44' and runs 40+ knots, cruising at 35+. Definitely not slow. MAN dominates the market on medium hp and speed engines. So, I love love love my MAN 800's.

MAN vs. CAT. CAT has a bit of a cult US following but MAN has more hp in the same size. CAT dominates the SF market, MAN dominates the Performance and sport boat market. Also, much quieter than CAT. In the US, likely more CAT mechanics, but plenty of MAN. I hear CAT people say MAN is expensive to maintain but frankly don't buy that it's more or, if it is, only marginally.

Now, depending on what you're looking for, thinking of typical MAN installations, 800's are a bit small for a 65' boat. 1000 and above would be more common. We've had 800's, 1200's and 1360's and no issues with any.

In the 800 hp to 1400 hp ranges, worldwide, MAN is by far the leader. They now are pushing up to 1900 hp. Above the MAN and CAT ranges, MTU owns the market.

I'd recommend taking some MAN courses or at least spending time working with a solid MAN mechanic. Follow their maintenance schedule religiously.

BandB said:

Now, depending on what you're looking for, thinking of typical MAN installations, 800's are a bit small for a 65' boat. 1000 and above would be more common.

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How can you possibly claim that without knowing what the boat is?

No personal MAN knowledge, but the owner of the local shop I use mentioned that the cost of MAN parts would, 'take your breath away'. Right in there with Volvo in that regard. No local MAN service here so it comes from Seattle and you're on the meter up and back.

Simi 60 said:

How can you possibly claim that without knowing what the boat is?

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Wifey B: Then I'll stay they're smaller than I've seen used on 65' boats. Not saying they won't be adequate but the time to plane would be a concern and I'm assuming the boat planes or wouldn't have such engines. We have a 63' with MAN 1360's, had a 65' with 1200's although 1000 was standard. Best friend's 56' has 1000's.

Admittedly would be nice to know what boat.

As to the parts cost, I hear that all the time from CAT people and, yet, the knowledgeable engineers I know say the parts and the service is little different, perhaps 10%. I think at one time the parts prices had a greater disparity than today.

I didn’t want to muddle the discussion with the boat builder. It’s a Fleming 65. Top speed of 18 knots and I’m thinking a cruising speed of 10 knots. Thanks to all that responded.

Captain Glenn said:

I didn’t want to muddle the discussion with the boat builder. It’s a Fleming 65. Top speed of 18 knots and I’m thinking a cruising speed of 10 knots. Thanks to all that responded.

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Wifey B: Fleming doesn't aim for more speed so it makes sense. Great boat. I'm sure you've seen them but if not, they have their full performance charts on their web site with fuel usage and range at all speeds.

Great boat. One of the few "slow" boats that temps me as it can reach at least a little faster speeds. Still would be nicer with like a 1200 hp. :lol:

Don't let MAN naysayers discourage you on that boat. Just the quietness alone will make your cruising so much more enjoyable.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Then I'll stay they're smaller than I've seen used on 65' boats.

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Could be a trawler
65 ft 100 tonne steely a mate owns has a 325hp 855 Cummins same engine in our 60fter
Another mate with a 65 fter has a 170hp 8lxb Gardner

Captain Glenn said:

I didn’t want to muddle the discussion with the boat builder. It’s a Fleming 65. Top speed of 18 knots and I’m thinking a cruising speed of 10 knots. Thanks to all that responded.

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There are a few in our part of the world.
Never seen any of them going faster than 8.5knots.
Thats a whole lot of HP for doing relatively slow speeds

Simi 60 said:

There are a few in our part of the world.
Never seen any of them going faster than 8.5knots.
Thats a whole lot of HP for doing relatively slow speeds

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Wifey B: That's the nature of Flemings to have the ability to go faster. As to an 800 hp MAN in a steel trawler, I can't imagine it. Never heard of a MAN in one. Cummins yes, MAN no.

78 Fleming has MAN 1550's, WOT 21 knots.
65 Fleming MAN 800's, 18 knots.
58 Fleming MAN 800's, 20 knots.
55 Fleming Cummins 500's, 18 knots.

I remember they will put larger in some.

I've never known of MAN's in full displacement boats in this size range. Not saying it can't happen, just doesn't often if at all. They offer 730 hp to 2000 hp right now. Man targets medium weights and speeds.

Wifey B: I should have said for other applications they'll go far larger, like for commercial ships and power plants. MAN is owned now by VW, since 2011.

The Flemming is my dream boat and if they fit the MAN engines they must be good. Sorry my knowledge on them is not extensive so I can't contribute much but if you buy it I will say

A couple of boats that my daughter helps reposition have the Mann engines and they have not given any problems over many years running up and down to Fla..
The larger Bayliners have Manns as well and show no issues from that owners group - they have/had a rather extensive list of cross referenced parts for the engines including but not limited to: water pump impellers, belts, fuel filters, lube filters, injectors, etc.
Most all of their hundreds of posts indicated that most parts were readily available at good pricing but that in general they do not need that much work.

More details and performance charts on the Fleming 65':

https://www.flemingyachts.com/model/Fleming-65

A couple boat neighbors have MANs in Viking fishboats, and they seem happy with 'em. The "mandatory" services -- by their MAN techs -- had some huge (to me) price tags, though. Not sure what the "mandatory" services included, at what intervals.

Didn't know the Flemings have MANs; we're next door to the local dealer, so our immediate area is awash with Fleming eye candy.

-Chris

I just talked to Fleming and they said they also have Man 1000hp and Cummins 405hp and maybe able to work with me on other engines. I like the idea of cruising at 10 knots (smelling the roses) it’s economical and the top speed of 18 knots to scoot out of the way of things. I don’t know much about other engines of this size to pass on to Fleming. My plans are to cruise up to Alaska and then back down to Panama and across to East coast of US. I just didn’t want to be stuck somewhere for 3 months waiting on parts or searching for a mechanic to work on Man engines. But after all the feedback from TF, Man should be fine if I can get a list of parts distributors and certified techs along the way.

ranger42c said:

A couple boat neighbors have MANs in Viking fishboats, and they seem happy with 'em. The "mandatory" services -- by their MAN techs -- had some huge (to me) price tags, though. Not sure what the "mandatory" services included, at what intervals.

Didn't know the Flemings have MANs; we're next door to the local dealer, so our immediate area is awash with Fleming eye candy.

-Chris

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Look at the "mandatory" services of CAT or any others as well. Not small.

Here is the MAN maintenance schedule:

https://www.jimmyrogersyachtbroker.com/man-common-rail-engine-maintenance-plan/

or in another form

http://www.jimmyrogersyachtbroker.c.../sites/81/2015/02/MAN-CR-maintenance-plan.pdf

Only items that stand out are adjusting valve clearance every 800 hours and then every two years changing both valve caps on expansion tanks and cleaning the inter-cooler, charge air pipes, turbocharger, and heat exchanger. Actually very similar to CAT 1000 hour service.

Captain Glenn said:

I just talked to Fleming and they said they also have Man 1000hp and Cummins 405hp and maybe able to work with me on other engines. I like the idea of cruising at 10 knots (smelling the roses) it’s economical and the top speed of 18 knots to scoot out of the way of things. I don’t know much about other engines of this size to pass on to Fleming. My plans are to cruise up to Alaska and then back down to Panama and across to East coast of US. I just didn’t want to be stuck somewhere for 3 months waiting on parts or searching for a mechanic to work on Man engines. But after all the feedback from TF, Man should be fine if I can get a list of parts distributors and certified techs along the way.

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Wifey B: I thought they offered bigger. And a little secret. If they can put a MAN 1000 hp in, then they could put a 1200 hp and even the newer 1400 hp since they are basically the same engines.

They're use to working with MAN's and fitting them nicely in the space. I'd go with MAN's. A CAT in the same hp is going to be bigger and cut down on ER space. Plus noisier. Now, I know many TF'ers would be happy with the small Cummins. Still, if you want to go slow with the MAN's, you can get better than 1 nmpg at 8 knots.

Captain Glenn said:

I didn’t want to muddle the discussion with the boat builder. It’s a Fleming 65. Top speed of 18 knots and I’m thinking a cruising speed of 10 knots. Thanks to all that responded.

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I'm familiar with an F65 that swapped out the Cummins for MANs. The swap was done in Sidney BC. The ER looks beautiful, neat and orderly. The vessel has susequently traveled all over whether offshore or coastal.

Be aware, the owner is one of the finest cruisers out there. Call him, I'd guess he'd love to chat. Tony Fleming is his name and Venture is his boat.

I had a discussion with a friend who runs boats around in Maine. They’ve seen a handful of lobster boats changing over to MAN. Must be good engines if the guys depend on them daily.
As far as prices on parts and service go, anecdotal evidence does not take inflation into account. I’ve had to question myself when I recall prices from 20+ years ago and compare them to today. I’ll have it set in my mind that a car battery is still $28 and then I’ll just go around the rest of the day thinking that NAPA is really expensive!

Kapn. I’m somewhat like you in that I still catch myself thinking comic books are 12 cents and Ice cream cones are 15 cents from the 60’s. I now pay $4.50 for one scoop of ice cream. In fact I can’t even find the cent sign on my I pad. I don’t mind paying a premium for MAN parts, I just don’t want to feel I’ve been gouged like Volvo. I’ve now learned that MAN is a very good engine and I’ll just need plenty of spare parts on my cruise to Alaska. Now I just need to find a good MAN mechanic up north.

Now I just need to find a good MAN mechanic up north

I was curious myself if there was MAN support in Alaska, since we make the trip annually. Three google hits showed up for the Anchorage area, nothing for SE AK. That isn't to say, however, that there isn't MAN service available, only that it didn't pop up in the search.

Wrangell is thought to be go-to yard in SE for most anything service-wise - you might inquire with the harbormaster if they can refer you. Petersburg also has a big fishing fleet, so maybe something there. Ketchikan, Juneau and Sitka are also possibilities.

Captain Glenn said:

Kapn. I’m somewhat like you in that I still catch myself thinking comic books are 12 cents and Ice cream cones are 15 cents from the 60’s. I now pay $4.50 for one scoop of ice cream. In fact I can’t even find the cent sign on my I pad. I don’t mind paying a premium for MAN parts, I just don’t want to feel I’ve been gouged like Volvo. I’ve now learned that MAN is a very good engine and I’ll just need plenty of spare parts on my cruise to Alaska. Now I just need to find a good MAN mechanic up north.

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"Now I just need to find a good MAN mechanic up north."
There are at least a half a dozen active Bayliner owners in the north pacific that have the Mann engines and discuss them.
Perhaps post what you are seeking on the Bayliner owners club under the motor yachts section and see what they say.
baylinerownersclub(dot)org

Check with RDI Marine in Seattle. They support MAN engines and handle the installations for some manufacturers.

Well Tony Fleming has taken his boat up and through and around and up and down the American and Canadian West Coast. If he trusts the motor, I would be so inclined as long as my wallet could sustain any substantial hit to get some part into an obscure part of Alaska.

rsn48 said:

I would be so inclined as long as my wallet could sustain any substantial hit to get some part into an obscure part of Alaska.

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That is an issue with any equipment on a boat taken to an obscure part of Alaska or other areas. There is the issue of how quickly you'll get the part. I've known people to wait long times on car parts, even parts covered under warranty. Years ago I had a friend who drove a loaner for over six weeks because the Oldsmobile dealer couldn't get the parts needed to fix their new car. I've been amazed at car dealers refusing to have warranty parts shipped to them overnight but would only use ground transportation. I was pleasantly surprised when I had an alternator to die on an Infiniti. It was 3000 miles out of warranty but they still covered. However, even more, they had a new one overnighted to them and the repair completed in less than a day.

When you travel to remote areas, you need to recognize the risk of needing to get parts and the cost of doing so. Just don't think any brand is immune from the problem.

Detroit production

Man produces some of their engines in the Detroit Diesel plant on Telegraph road in Detroit. I think Mercedes Benz owns Detroit Diesel and likely created some kind of joint operating agreement with Man through their shared heritage. If they are making engines in Detroit I would imagine their parts availability would be better than if they were not.