Fuel sight gauge issue

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Pack Mule

Pack Mule

TF Site Team
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,749
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Slo-Poke
Vessel Make
Jorgensen custom 44
I have two 62 gallon fuel tanks on my starboard side in engine room. They are plumbed together with valves to one sight tube. The top of sight tube is tied in at the top of one fuel tank in the same plumbing as my return line. I know it’s funky right?
There is a valve at the bottom of site tube. After shutting engine off it takes at least overnight for the fuel to reach what I think is the right level in sight tube. It does this even if I shut all the valves for the sight tube while running. As soon as I shut engine off and open valves to sight tube all fuel is sucked out of sight tube and takes what seems like forever to fill the tube back up.
Is there anything I can do to speed this up , short of adding a separate bulkhead in tank for the top of sight tube? I’m guessing it’s taking so long because air trapped in top of sight tube .
 
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Unless these are EPA gas tanks, they should be vented to atmosphere at the top. That is, with a overboard vent that is not plugged. :)
 
diver dave said:
Unless these are EPA gas tanks, they should be vented to atmosphere at the top. That is, with a overboard vent that is not plugged. :)
Click to expand...
Diesel tanks ,vented at top and vents are open .
 
Pack Mule said:
I have two 62 gallon fuel tanks on my starboard side in engine room. They are plumbed together with valves to one sight tube. The top of sight tube is tied in at the top of one fuel tank in the same plumbing as my return line. I know it’s funky right?
There is a valve at the bottom of site tube. After shutting engine off it takes at least overnight for the fuel to reach what I think is the right level in sight tube. It does this even if I shut all the valves for the sight tube while running. As soon as I shut engine off and open valves to sight tube all fuel is sucked out of sight tube and takes what seems like forever to fill the tube back up.
Is there anything I can do to speed this up , short of adding a separate bulkhead in tank for the top of sight tube? I’m guessing it’s taking so long because air trapped in top of sight tube .
Click to expand...

It appears you have a covered slip. Take the fuel caps off and see if it speeds up the process. If it does, suspect the overboard vents.
 
Have you tried to disconnect only the top of the site tube? This seems to be indicating an unexpected plugging or valving in the system. Letting the top go free will divide the problem in half.
 
OldDan1943 said:
It appears you have a covered slip. Take the fuel caps off and see if it speeds up the process. If it does, suspect the overboard vents.
Click to expand...
Thanks ,I'll try that . A few weeks ago I had a tank go out ( not one of these). I was scrambling to get the fuel in that tank transferred to other tanks. In the process I slightly overfilled these tanks to the point of seeping out of the vent. I don't think the vents are clogged but maybe.
The tygon site tube has a 90 degree turn in it where it ties into the return. It has a slight crimp in tube that could be the culprit.
I guess I'm overthinking the fact that it being tied into my return has something to do with it.
 
diver dave said:
Have you tried to disconnect only the top of the site tube? This seems to be indicating an unexpected plugging or valving in the system. Letting the top go free will divide the problem in half.
Click to expand...
Thanks I'll try that. See post #5
 
I’m pretty sure now that this kink is the culprit . Sunday when we left the boat the level was 10” lower than where the level is now marked with yellow tape.

I’m going to hard plumb from the tank to the tubing including a hard ninety and replace tubing with straight piece. The tubing is no longer soft and that little kink has taken set .

Thanks guys . I think I was too focused on the tube being plumbed to my return that I over looked the blockage. I have never seen a sight tube plumbed that way .
 

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Pack Mule said:
I’m pretty sure now that this kink is the culprit . Sunday when we left the boat the level was 10” lower than where the level is now marked with yellow tape.

I’m going to hard plumb from the tank to the tubing including a hard ninety and replace tubing with straight piece. The tubing is no longer soft and that little kink has taken set .

Thanks guys . I think I was too focused on the tube being plumbed to my return that I over looked the blockage. I have never seen a sight tube plumbed that way .
Click to expand...

I think you found your problem Marty
 
I don't see the slight kink as a problem since the part at the top is air... it may have resistance but not sealed (at least from the photo). The problem is the top tube venting. If it were me, I would put a valve at the top of the sight tube and when you open the bottom valve, open the top one, and it will follow whatever tank level you have it switched to. Venting to one tank and sensing another is screwed up.

Another option would be to tee the two tank vents into the sight tube, so they share the vent and the tube.
 
So nobody is mentioning a plastic hose for a sight tube ???

God forbid, a fire would melt that and feed the fire....

It looks like it's T'ed into the black hose and there appears to be a dip in that one.
Might have fuel collecting there blocking the air.
 
Solly said:
So nobody is mentioning a plastic hose for a sight tube ???

God forbid, a fire would melt that and feed the fire....

It looks like it's T'ed into the black hose and there appears to be a dip in that one.
Might have fuel collecting there blocking the air.
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The proper usage is to open the valves on the tank to the sight gauge tube and read the level, then close it back. The amount of fuel in the sight gauge tube is minimal.

Fire is the reason why you have a valve closing it off, at least on the bottom, preferably on the top too. It can't have spring closed dead-man valves to meet ABYC, from what I recall. There are some options for alternates to vinyl tubing but they have a risk of being broken since they are glass. for some reason, borate glass comes to mind here...
 
Thanks for all the help guys. I just ordered some tygon tubing for sight gauge,3/8” id x 1/2” od. Thanks stubones I will add another valve to the top.
I turn all valves off after checking fuel level. The time it’s takes for checking level is my main reason for addressing this issue. I hope this will speed up the time it takes diesel to enter sight gauge.
 
Years ago, I looked at a trawler that used plastic tubing for a sight gauge. To protect the tubing, the owner had snapped the tubing into the channel of a piece of shelf standard channel that was cut fit the tube snugly, twisted the channel around the back and leave the channel open so you could easily see the tube, but protecting the tube. The owner was worried about something sliding around in rough seas and hitting the bare tube, knocking it off and causing a fire hazard. It seemed to be a robust solution to his problem.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Sterling-FAST-MOUNT-Adjustable-Galvanized-BK-0100-6/dp/B0009SUWDI
 
Just got this in today from McMaster Carr. Semi-clear soft Tygon tubing for fuels and lubricants. Hope to get it done this weekend.
 

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"I hope this will speed up the time it takes diesel to enter sight gauge."

If it is not the cure , I would get a pail and observe how fast different locations feed the system, it still could be a chunk of gunk stuck in a fitting, or a partially plugged valve.
 
FF said:
"I hope this will speed up the time it takes diesel to enter sight gauge."

If it is not the cure , I would get a pail and observe how fast different locations feed the system, it still could be a chunk of gunk stuck in a fitting, or a partially plugged valve.
Click to expand...

I suspect it was plumbed fine until someone added the wooden frame on the tank top.
 
Interesting use of the Tygon tube. I have 2 tanks down aft under the cockpit 500GPH. Sounds the perfect visual device. Many years ago I found some 3/8" red floating balls I dropped one in each tube in a previous boat too enable easier seeing of the depth of fuel. For the life of me I cannot seem to find any info on them. Has any one any idea where I could get them or similar?
 
Martin J said:
Interesting use of the Tygon tube. I have 2 tanks down aft under the cockpit 500GPH. Sounds the perfect visual device. Many years ago I found some 3/8" red floating balls I dropped one in each tube in a previous boat too enable easier seeing of the depth of fuel. For the life of me I cannot seem to find any info on them. Has any one any idea where I could get them or similar?
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That sounds like a perfect set up but my vote goes to glass tubes.:popcorn:
 
stubones99 said:
The proper usage is to open the valves on the tank to the sight gauge tube and read the level, then close it back. The amount of fuel in the sight gauge tube is minimal.



Fire is the reason why you have a valve closing it off, at least on the bottom, preferably on the top too. It can't have spring closed dead-man valves to meet ABYC, from what I recall. There are some options for alternates to vinyl tubing but they have a risk of being broken since they are glass. for some reason, borate glass comes to mind here...
Click to expand...



I’ve never considered the fire aspect, thanks Alvey. I just thought the valves protected emptying the contents of the tanks in case of the sight glass breaking.
 
So how is the tygon tubing connected to the valves top/bottom? Is there some type of sleeve inserted to prevent the tube collapsing like in a small ice-maker water line?
 
Cajun said:
So how is the tygon tubing connected to the valves top/bottom? Is there some type of sleeve inserted to prevent the tube collapsing like in a small ice-maker water line?
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Simple hose clamps. No pressure or vacuum involved so no need for reinforcement. Just replaced mine that were original to boat in 1985. Vibration induced crack just above a clamp resulted in a small drip.

If sight tube cracked with valve open you're bilge would end up with 100 gal or so and auto bilge pump would then pump it overboard. Keep valves closed.
 

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Do not use a metal tool to remove the hose. You could score the fitting and then, a serious path for a leak.
 
If I recall ABYC correctly, deadman valves are prohibited (Valves that auto-close under spring pressure) since a fire can heat the springs and make them lose their strength and then you have a fuel-fed fire.
It seems like a good idea, but apparently they have seen enough fail to recommend not using them.
 
Sight Tube Material

Interesting? I just purchased a 40 ft 1988 Island Gypsy. The surveyor told me that plastic tubing is not approved for sight tubes and red flagged it. I have a number of other issues that the surveyor found that need repairs and updates which in turn has caused me not to be able to get navigational insurance. (Could only get a policy while it is on the hard). I'm going through the boat and updating / fixing all of the noted issues, which I had planned to and had included all the work in my price. It is a lot of $2.00 parts but with 10 hours of labor, which I don't mind doing. I really don't want to change the tubes but if anyone can give me insight, I would appreciate it very much. Thanks,
 
HeartWarrior said:
I really don't want to change the tubes but if anyone can give me insight, I would appreciate it very much. Thanks,
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Let's assume it is not 'plastic' but rather tigon tubing. You have a shut off valve top and bottom of each tube. You might want to discuss this with your insurance company. Remember, you only open the valves to get a more accurate reading and then, you shut the valves.
My builder suggested looking at
usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=37582.
If for some reason, your insurance company has not reached the 20th century, put the glass tubing in a cage. Putting glass tubing in is gonna be a bear. Wear gloves. To switch from plastic to glass, you may have to change the tank valves.
Your surveyor may have a preference but there are plenty of boats out there w/o glass tubing.
 
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HeartWarrior said:
The surveyor told me that plastic tubing is not approved for sight tubes and red flagged it.
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There are industrial sight gauges available. I am replacing tanks and having sight gauges installed (there were none before). I forget where I sourced them (Grainger maybe?), but found aluminium body gauges protecting 'borosilicate glass' tubes. There are needle valves on each end.

Attached pic is from last week from Niza Marine in Ensenada, MX. Install is just getting started - gauges are 24-inch and attached to aft bulkhead. The starboard saddle tank (new, fiberglass) is visible in the left picture. LDI Industries Manitowoc WI.
LIDI Industries Sight Gauge.jpg
 
All better now I think one cause for the slow fill of of sight gauge was that I wasn’t shutting off the valve on the return line just before the top of where site tube was plumbed :eek:.
I guess there was too much pressure from the return being open that my sight gauge couldn’t vent the air into the tank.
As soon as I shut that valve off the fuel jumped up in sight gauge. .
In the picture the lines look they are rubbing each other but they’re not . Thanks for all the help everyone.
 

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