Overtaking prohibited in vicinity of marina!

Had an odd radio exchange with a marina near Hilton Head today. I had just finished radio contact with another vessel I was preparing to overtake when we got a loud high powered VHF call from the Marina we were passing by. The speaker “ordered” us to slow down and stop passing in front of his marina. We were over 300yds from the docks and traveling at hull speed at the time. The area has a homemade “no wake” sign, but we were both in compliance anyway doing an arranged slow pass. The exact words were: “Passing is prohibited in front of the marina”.

I telephoned the Tybee USGC and they stated that while I am always responsible for my wake, if I am over 50yds outside of the bouy line the zone does not apply. I was 300yds outside. He also said that I can overtake anywhere it is safe, even inside the bouy line. What the Chief Petty Officer was unwilling to do was give the marina a courtesy call and tell them to stop trying to interfere with safe navigation unless I could give him the name of the individual involved. He did know which marina I was taking about as soon as I described the interaction though.
For those familiar with the area, the marina name is very similar to the name of the place where King Kong lives.

The marina could have gotten the municipalities to pass some dipshi* law...but I doubt it.

At worst it is a no wake zone so passing just seems impracticable, but in my mind the marina is tired of dipshi*s...but is way off base.

I love marinas that like to try to push boats around... Earlier this year I was passing a yacht club on the upper Hudson having slowed to about 6 kts for a no wake zone. My wake looked much like the picture below at the time, so a small ripple, nothing that should harm docked boats 50+ yards away. And yet, right as I approach the yacht club, I get a rather irritated sounding call on the VHF "Northbound vessel approaching *** yacht club, Captain, this is a NO WAKE zone". Of course, I did oblige and pulled the throttles back to idle, but I still found the encounter a little ridiculous.

Goes right along with the old guy in a small fishing boat that yelled at me one of the last times I was out this season while I was heading back into the channel at 5 kts making less wake than the picture. He looks up at me and yells "slow down, you're going way too fast" despite me being within the posted speed limit for the channel (6 mph, so 5.2 kts). I'm pretty sure he expected me to enter the channel at his speed, which I'd estimate at 2.5 - 3 kts (slower than my idle speed).

I was passing a marina at no wake speed early one morning on my way back from Florida when a voice came over 16 advising me that I was in a no wake zone and that I needed to slow down. I responded that I was satisfied with my wake and would assume full responsibility and proceeded to give him my boat name, and hailing port and thanked him for his concern. That was it. There are plenty of violators but there are also plenty of “Barney Fifes” out to make a citizens arrest. Slow down but don’t be intimidated.

Don

Woodland Hills said:

For those familiar with the area, the marina name is very similar to the name of the place where King Kong lives.

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Wifey B: Familiar with area but had to google to find out where King Kong lives.

Haven't experienced complaining marinas, but I have received dirty looks from a homeowner giving me dirty looks approaching Petaluma where the channel was about 60 feet wide, despite going at "no wake" speed.

Starboard phto shows the wake, taken earlier on the channel.

Here was the wake made earlier in the channel (is wider than near the homeowner's part of the channel):

*fart noise into VHF Mic*

I obey all no wake and slow wake zones and make an effort to minimize impact of wake on other boats and docks. However, if you have a home on the ICW, you need to expect wakes and live with them in peace. I speak as someone whose home is often heavily waked. You also get angry people if you go by fast in a boat where high speed creates minimal wake. It's not the center consoles running 45 knots that are the problem, but the ones not on plane running 10 knots. I have sympathy for boaters being dangerously waked and for homeowners with derelict boats sitting off their property for months or years without movement. I don't have sympathy for people with waterfront homes who are upset with everyone who anchors and every boat that passes.

rslifkin said:

I love marinas that like to try to push boats around... Earlier this year I was passing a yacht club on the upper Hudson having slowed to about 6 kts for a no wake zone. My wake looked much like the picture below at the time, so a small ripple, nothing that should harm docked boats 50+ yards away. And yet, right as I approach the yacht club, I get a rather irritated sounding call on the VHF "Northbound vessel approaching *** yacht club, Captain, this is a NO WAKE zone". Of course, I did oblige and pulled the throttles back to idle, but I still found the encounter a little ridiculous.

Goes right along with the old guy in a small fishing boat that yelled at me one of the last times I was out this season while I was heading back into the channel at 5 kts making less wake than the picture. He looks up at me and yells "slow down, you're going way too fast" despite me being within the posted speed limit for the channel (6 mph, so 5.2 kts). I'm pretty sure he expected me to enter the channel at his speed, which I'd estimate at 2.5 - 3 kts (slower than my idle speed).

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That is a bigger wake than I can produce at wide open throttle.

AusCan said:

That is a bigger wake than I can produce at wide open throttle.

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Sounds like you've got an impressively efficient boat then! For perspective on the picture, the total height of the waves is under 6" for the taller ones (peak to trough) and by the time they've traveled outwards noticeably further up in the picture they're smaller.

Steelydon, love your response. I to am a very conscientious boater and get very tired of the middle fingers and calls on VHF over a 6” wake. More and more of our society has unrealistic expectations on what is a legitimate problem.

Perhaps there is another perspective? Skull Creek Marina does not have the white "no wake" buoys but there is a large sign advising no wake due to the fuel dock. Most of us slow down when passing but always a few non-compliant. Some boaters don't realize that their wake propagates for a great distance without subsiding and a 6" high wave is 1 ft peak to trough which can be a PITA while at the dock in a 17' runabout. To be fair, most trawlers make significant wake as they near displacement hull speed. I am not familiar with the specific wake of your 63' Hatt., but I suspect that after daily rocking & rolling at the fuel dock, (safe) passing wasn't the issue, your radio broadcast of intention to pass, naturally raised the expectation of unnecessary wake hence the call. I wonder also if one of the many yachts/boat that dock there were using the Marina name as a location for simplicity? We all need to chil some more on the water, laugh off the clowns and our own inconsideracies. Enjoy!

Skull Creek Marina is pretty aggressive on the radio with calling wake offenders...and there are plenty there.

The reason I guess is because headed southbound, you never fee abeam the marina due to the angle passing it and the distance.

rslifkin said:

I love marinas that like to try to push boats around... Earlier this year I was passing a yacht club on the upper Hudson having slowed to about 6 kts for a no wake zone. My wake looked much like the picture below at the time, so a small ripple, nothing that should harm docked boats 50+ yards away. And yet, right as I approach the yacht club, I get a rather irritated sounding call on the VHF "Northbound vessel approaching *** yacht club, Captain, this is a NO WAKE zone". Of course, I did oblige and pulled the throttles back to idle, but I still found the encounter a little ridiculous.

Goes right along with the old guy in a small fishing boat that yelled at me one of the last times I was out this season while I was heading back into the channel at 5 kts making less wake than the picture. He looks up at me and yells "slow down, you're going way too fast" despite me being within the posted speed limit for the channel (6 mph, so 5.2 kts). I'm pretty sure he expected me to enter the channel at his speed, which I'd estimate at 2.5 - 3 kts (slower than my idle speed).

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Albany Yacht Club perhaps? They tried to harass me also several years ago. LOL

Some marinas have fuel and work docks exposed to waterway. Regardless of unrestricted travel rights, we lower speed to no wake when we see activity at same.

For no wake zones, I always slow down. But unless it's a very tight area or there's a visible reason to (such as someone just arriving at a fuel dock), I'm not slowing all the way to idle. Generally I take the rule of thumb that if a few inch tall wake damages a docked boat, the owner was likely negligent in tying up his boat. Most places will see at least that amount of movement (from small waves and wind) on a windy day.

jleonard said:

Albany Yacht Club perhaps? They tried to harass me also several years ago. LOL

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Yep, that's the one.

We call them "Wake Nazis." They scream and swear on VHF 16 at every passing boater who might be making more than a ripple. The worst is when I just happen to be out front (not throwing any wake) when the Wake Nazi gets hit by the wake of the boat that passed me a minute ago, and I get blamed. There's one marina I won't pass until all the wakes from other boats have subsided.

On the other hand, I have no sympathy for those who don't realize how much damage their wake can do, or even how large their wake really is. Especially the ones who think it's OK to throw SOME wake, because it's just too inconvenient to drop to full idle. This is especially true for some hulls, like sportfishermen and semi-displacement "trawlers" which throw a lot of wake at a relatively slow speed.

I look at if as if my wake is the same size as what a 10 knot wind would generate....then I only slow down further when I see people actually working in one way or another.

If my one time wake every 6 months isn't doing any more damage than the dock experiences all day long for 50 percent of its life....I don't feel guilty at all....and suggest people who have bought on the ICW didn't think things through. Even smarts states won't give them No Wake Zone permits and tell them to use boat lifts..

I've spent several years in a marina where the no wake zone is grossly ignored. The wake itself isn't outrageous, however the frequency starts to be annoying. You have a marina staff that is getting complaints from paying customer's. They are doing what they can to keep the customer's at bay.

While I'm not a fan of lying to manipulate people. It's also your prerogative to ignore them.

Been boating in Abaco for over 30 years where the no wake zones are pretty clearly defined by being inside the harbour or outside the harbour. Been yelled at quite a few times for causing a wake OUTSIDE the harbour entrance but never by an actual Bahamian - only tourists, often in rental runabouts.

I use to yell back, now I just smile and wave.

Common courtesy isn't very common any longer.

I see a lot more boaters with no regard for their wakes than I do boaters who do, so I can sympathize to a degree with anyone trying to deal with wakes.

I'm retired and very rarely in a hurry, so it's easy for me to slow down if there is any doubt.

If I was working a 60 hour week, and only had one day to go boating, I would probably find myself driving too fast at times, too.

As a friend who was a captain on a billionaire's yacht who constantly demanded that they go as fast as possible every where they went, observed, "He spent every day, trying to squeeze out that 25th hour, because he thought the most unfair thing in the world was that he had all that money, but not one more minute of time than some broke and homeless guy."

I decided that that probably summed it up, to one degree or another, for everyone who races down waterways in boats.

Group9 said:

"He spent every day, trying to squeeze out that 25th hour, because he thought the most unfair thing in the world was that he had all that money, but not one more minute of time than some broke and homeless guy."

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He more than likely had significantly less free time than most people. I've worked roughly 13-14 hour days for the last 25 years. Whether that was early on with 3-4 hours of commuting or the last 12+ years where I work from home and take all three meals at my desk (and typically log off around or after 8pm).

I frequently get teased for two frequent sayings (which mostly apply to my time off on weekends and vacations).

1) The "forced march of fun".

2) There will time to rest/sleep when I'm dead.

Shrew said:

He more than likely had significantly less free time than most people. I've worked roughly 13-14 hour days for the last 25 years. Whether that was early on with 3-4 hours of commuting or the last 12+ years where I work from home and take all three meals at my desk (and typically log off around or after 8pm).

I frequently get teased for two frequent sayings (which mostly apply to my time off on weekends and vacations).

1) The "forced march of fun".

2) There will time to rest/sleep when I'm dead.

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This guy actually sold one of his jets, and bought another one, because it cruised 50 mph faster! Then he paid to have a local airport runway extended out of his own pocket, so he could land the fast jet there.

It was kind of sad really. My friend and the crew would take his yacht down to the Bahamas, or where ever, on a nice relaxing fun cruise, taking two, three weeks to get there, and then he would jet in for a frantic, speed everywhere weekend, and then jet back out, and then they would have another two, three week cruise taking the boat home.

My friend said it was really like it was their boat, and he just borrowed it every once in a while!

Going to toss one more observation into this discussion. The marina that is exposed to wind and wake. Much like the homeowner. Perhaps their fuel dock directly faces the waterway. Now, unless I'm sadly mistaken, the waterway was there before the marina was built. Did they not see the potential issues? And rather than constantly fighting a battle they'll never win, wouldn't they be smarter to either rearrange their docks or add some attenuation. I see thousands of marinas on major waterways where their customers are well protected from wind and wake. Marinas along waterways often have protection such as no wake within a certain distance but they don't have or merit no wake by boats on the opposite side of the waterway. Where it's been deemed an area should be no wake, then legal no wake zones have been set up.

We live in an area that has combinations of every zone offered in FL. We have "Idle Speed, No Wake." We have "Slow Speed, Minimum Wake". In that area if your bow is elevated, even slightly, you're in violation. Easier means of judging compliance than measuring wake. Then we have "Speed Limits" with specific mph. Last we have all other with no restrictions.

Just taking one section from the Sunrise bridge, 2250' North to 1500' south is No wake. From that to a point 1500' north of Las Olas bridge is minimum wake on Saturday, Sunday and Holidays only. From 1500' North of Las Olas to 3300' South is no wake. Now, right in the middle of that you have New River and Rio Barcelona and while parts of them are designated as "Restricted Marine Areas" with no wake, they're also designated as Watersports Activities Areas and any single engine vessel 21' or under can engage freely in watersports including skiing, tubing, and, of course, unlimited use of PWC. So, in a single area if over 21', no wake, if under, watersports.

So in Middle River and Rio Barcelona you have wakes by boats 21' and under engaged in watersports and on the ICW you have an area from 1500' south of Sunrise to 1500' North of Las Olas with no restrictions on weekdays. Many waterfront homes and marina docks in that area.

Worst wakes are immediately before entering the no wake zones and immediately after exiting them as boats slow down or speed up.

Our best friends have a home right on the ICW in the area with no regulations during weekdays. It was that way when they bought. They have no expectation of no wakes and tie their boat accordingly. We're in a Watersports Activity Area and we have no expectation.

It's all a fact of life for those of us on or near the ICW. Most of the rest of Fort Lauderdale has no limitations. I have an acquaintance debating buying a new home. He currently is deep within a canal and gets no wake. The home he's considering is right on the ICW and no limitations. He knows he'll get the view but also the wake.

Skull Creek Marina built on a major thoroughfare, the passageway between Hilton Head and the mainland. While boats go through at reasonable speeds for the most part, they have no reasonable expectation of no wakes impacting them. They chose to build their docks in a way to be exposed and especially their fuel dock. There are many other ways they could have designed them. They made no effort to attenuate the wake. Even when several boats come through attempting to have minimal wakes, they'll add up to wake the boats most exposed. We've docked as transients at many marinas where the slips are protected but transient docks aren't. It doesn't come as a surprise to us to encounter wakes.

Nearby to Skull Creek, you have Windmill Harbor. They're the opposite example. They built canals, forfeiting considerable land to do so, and built a lock, so boats there are not exposed at all.

For Skull Creek to think they can write rules that don't exist is presumptuous and self serving. I think most boaters pass through trying to be considerate. However, if we come through and encounter a boat doing 5 knots, we will pass it. We will likely run at minimum wake but not at no wake. We will swing as far away as practical. We will not respond to messages over the radio or home made signs. It is my understanding they've gotten worse about these things since the change of ownership. The new owners closed 3 months before Matthew hit. However, my point in change of ownership is that WYSIWYG. None of this came as a surprise or new issue to them.

As a property owner along the waterway, I say again that owning property alone the waterway does not give one the right to dictate all usage of the waterway. This morning we looked out to three beautiful sailboats anchored nearby and we've seen 25' Boston Whalers pass at 20 knots or so creating wakes, four or five PWC's pass by, and one small runabout pulling tubers. That's what we got when we signed up to live here and we love it.

Group9 said:

This guy actually sold one of his jets, and bought another one, because it cruised 50 mph faster! Then he paid to have a local airport runway extended out of his own pocket, so he could land the fast jet there.

It was kind of sad really. My friend and the crew would take his yacht down to the Bahamas, or where ever, on a nice relaxing fun cruise, taking two, three weeks to get there, and then he would jet in for a frantic, speed everywhere weekend, and then jet back out, and then they would have another two, three week cruise taking the boat home.

My friend said it was really like it was their boat, and he just borrowed it every once in a while!

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sounds like your friend has a good gig on somebodies check book . Not for everybody, but works for them.

We throw a large wake. There is almost no way around it and, as a planing boat we have tiny rudders, anything below about 1200rpms leaves us with very poor maneuverability. I am not making excuses, but there is a reality and element of safety that I have to consider. If even just a little. Additionally, in open areas, there should be no expectation set for a zero wake experience. I can really only do so much and dropping on and off plane not only wastes time and money, but is hard on my gear. I will drop off plane for all vessels we overtake, but not 100% of the time for meeting head-on (based largely on vessel size and hull design... which means always for sail boats... never for sportfish and larger SeaRays... and sometimes for bayboats and center consoles)

There is a Wake Nazi on Adam's Creek behind Morehead City, NC and he has called us out before. I just ignore him. While I do understand the intention, until that neighborhood gets their area established as an official No Wake Zone, he can take his homemade signage and go pound sand. We aren't on plane, but are throwing a medium wake for us at 10mph-ish.

There is a map on the NC Wildlife Resource Center that shows all the official no wake zones in our state: https://www.ncpaws.org/wrcmapbook/baa.aspx

Tom.B said:

We throw a large wake. There is almost no way around it and, as a planing boat we have tiny rudders, anything below about 1200rpms leaves us with very poor maneuverability. I am not making excuses, but there is a reality and element of safety that I have to consider. If even just a little. Additionally, in open areas, there should be no expectation set for a zero wake experience. I can really only do so much and dropping on and off plane not only wastes time and money, but is hard on my gear. I will drop off plane for all vessels we overtake, but not 100% of the time for meeting head-on (based largely on vessel size and hull design... which means always for sail boats... never for sportfish and larger SeaRays... and sometimes for bayboats and center consoles)

There is a Wake Nazi on Adam's Creek behind Morehead City, NC and he has called us out before. I just ignore him. While I do understand the intention, until that neighborhood gets their area established as an official No Wake Zone, he can take his homemade signage and go pound sand. We aren't on plane, but are throwing a medium wake for us at 10mph-ish.

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Interestingly enough, even in no wake, FL specifies idle speed as that necessary to maintain headway and direction control. Sounds like it may be 1200 rpm for you although I'd think perhaps slightly less. We struggled with the 5 mph speed limits in sections of the Erie Canal. That required just bumping in gear for a moment, then out. That is 4.34 knots and I'd bet half the boats here can't go that slow in gear. We quickly realized the boats on the Erie, although closely watched, were no going that speed.

As to those with homemade signage and their own rules, when they retire, they will become Condo Commandos.

BandB said:

Interestingly enough, even in no wake, FL specifies idle speed as that necessary to maintain headway and direction control. Sounds like it may be 1200 rpm for you although I'd think perhaps slightly less. We struggled with the 5 mph speed limits in sections of the Erie Canal. That required just bumping in gear for a moment, then out. That is 4.34 knots and I'd bet half the boats here can't go that slow in gear. We quickly realized the boats on the Erie, although closely watched, were no going that speed.

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I found myself typically doing about 5 kts in those sections of the Erie Canal. Both engines idling in gear puts me right at 4.3 kts (idle comes up to about 780 - 800 when moving at that speed, it's 680 in gear tied to the dock). Bumping up to 900 RPM gives about 5 kts and is a dramatic improvement in steering response, control, etc. with my fairly small rudders.

Tom.B said:

There is almost no way around it and, as a planing boat we have tiny rudders, anything below about 1200rpms leaves us with very poor maneuverability.

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That's surprising.

I drop RPMs to under ~725 for 6 MPH zones, and have decent steerage. We idle at about 4.5-5 kts and usually have decent steerage there, too. All that assumes typical weather, not gale force or some such, and generally close areas where you might expect No Wake or Idle Speed zones.

Most of our "putter along" (aka "trawler" speed) runs are between 7-8 kts, usually somewhere between 900 and 1100 RPMs depending on wind and tide/current, no problem with steerage there even in open water... again assuming benign weather.

-Chris