Positive Anchor Drag Detector System

Thanks for the info and comments. A cable attached to the anchor chain would probably get destroyed so we are looking at alternatives for sending the signal back to the boat.

rtheriault said:

Twistedtree this the kind of feedback i am looking for. Not whether people need a new gadget or not. The issues you bring up are valid and we have delt with buoy deployment and lack of cell cover in our design.

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Interesting concept and as one who spends a lot of days on the hook well outside of cell range, I'm curious how remote alarming can be relied on? Understand this may be some of your proprietary tech - but if you can share, please do.

Also curious of there is plans to have it broadcast over Wifi? Seeing as most modern electronics are going this way (WiFi) , it would seem natural to be able to have an on-vessel warning system independent from the phone as well..

Regarding the acceleratorometer, a moving anchor is a normal thing meaning when current or winds reverse, so to does the direction of tension on the pick. And if that tension is high enough, the anchor will dislodge, re-orient to the direction of pull and reset. This is normal. I'd like to be made aware this was occurring, but would not call it a "dragging episode". Does your device have the ability to filter this out - and of so, preferably with some form of adjustment on the amount of "just ignore it"?

Lastly - maintenance. What are you foreseeing that this device will require in the form of maintenance? I'm assuming it's battery-powered, I'm assuming that the float is not large enough to support a solar array large enough to self-sustain, so that leaves battery maintenance. Rechargeable? Replaceable? And regardless, the housing itself is going to have to put up with a LOT of potential use/abuse, and will need to assure a water-tight seal for battery work, and preferably a separate and completely sealed section for electronics.. And the cable itself? In one post you indicated the device could handle a deployment in 8' of water or in 120' of water. The only way this range can be handled is via a spring-loaded spooled line. which also means the cables have to spool - which means the cables will be constantly "worked" with each deployment. As part of you functional spec, is there an estimated life for the cables and are they easy to replace when they do eventually let go? Collisions - if it's deployed n an anchorage, it's going to get hit by another boat - will the housing be able to handle this?

Not trying to slam the idea - I think it has merit - but making sure it's as you say, more than a gimmick..

Nikko said:

Regarding the acceleramator, a moving anchor is a normal thing meaning when current or winds reverse, so to does the direction of tension on the pick. And if that tension is high enough, the anchor will dislodge, re-orient to the direction of pull and reset.

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The forces on a dragging anchor are easily distinguished from those of a "re-orienting" anchor. I suspect the acceleramater is of the same type commonly found in cell phones and game station wands. Navy subs used to dead recon based on physical gyroscopes. This is the same thing, only WAY more accurate. The anchor's exact position and orientation over time can be easily deduced.

The problem

syjos said:

The problem with all these aids to help new boaters stay out of trouble are nothing but crutches. New boaters need to take classes, read books and/or take boat handling instruction to get up to speed. Most new boaters using aids never learn how to boat properly and keep relying on aids to keep them out of trouble.

For brand new boaters, on the water boat handling instruction is the best way to get the knowledge and confidence required to have an enjoyable, stress free boat ownership experience. Anchoring is one of many optional courses offered by a competent boat handling instructor.

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With kids using calculators is that they’ll forget how to really do it. Besides they may not have batteries. Do you think they’ll always have a Calculator within hands reach. I think letting kids use calculators in school we’re making a bunch of criples.

Nikko thanks for your useful feedback. Without giving too much away, yes we are using wifi where there is no cell range. The initial prototypes will not be able to anchor in 120ft of water (who does that?). To capture the most practice anchoring depths we are going for <50ft water depth. The retrieval system will not be rewinding in a reel for the reasons you are saying and we have developed a better solution using a specially designed and manufactured coily cord with a superior stretch ratio. Noise at the anchor can be filtered out.

This is really an exercise in marketing which is 90% of the success of a good idea. There are seasoned boaters that have plied the PNW for decades, they are not the target... it is the loopers that are in for a year and then out that would buy this. The Chesapeake, Everglades and points between all have grounded boats from anchors dragging with a hard enough blow. I think it’s a great idea and I would get a booth at a great loop rendezvous to share a prototype and gauge interest. Good luck and hire a great sales and marketing pro once you launch!

Thanks Derek. There are few folks who get it and understand that there is a market for a better anchor drag detection system (better than relying on a geofence which is a lagging indicator). People who say that they don't need another gadget on their boat because they have decades of experience aren't thinking of the real application as you have articulated. Great advice on the marketing too.

I do not see a need for the proposed device, given the normal precautions and and GPS devices available.

Anchor Drag

Is you have the technical solution, I’ll look at it. People saying you shouldn’t “drag”? Ok, let me know what you have. Get an NDA 1st.

No one at present has completely exploited the information already available with existing instruments. Most anchor watch facilities are a simple circle around a GPS coordinate which is quite simple minded. With position, heading, and wind data it would be easy to construct a an algorithm that included these, limited to fit the situation as every anchoring situation presents different dangers.

For example, most of the time I'd like the geofence to be a sector of a circle, not the whole circle. I'd like the circle to be more sensitive if the wind has exceeded some value. I'd like an alarm perhaps if the wind has shifted by more than xx degrees and increased by more than yy knots. Or if the boat's heading has changed by more than zz degrees, or combination of all of the above. The geofence should have 'keep out' areas as well as 'stay in'.

A combination of those would be a simple software upgrade to many millions of chart plotters. With a GUI setting up the parameters would be much simpler than you'd think. If you are willing to run the radar all night, a whole new set of information is available. Pattern match on the image at anchor should tell you nearly everything you need to know. Further, you could call out certain targets (boats anchored nearby) and alarm if they are moving towards you - often this is at least as great a danger as your own anchor dragging. Since most modern chart plotters have WiFi remote notification is possible, though I will say that WiFi as a remote notification is a very short range solution and barely useful.

I think it’s a clever idea but my gut tells me the market for it will be relatively small. A good marketing campaign might change that. From what you’ve said here and the response to this thread, I wouldn’t stock it in my store.

I'd love such a thing if truly, reliably accurate, which seems an eventual oxymoron when talking anchoring.
The GPS variety, tho a start at good solution, are unreliable because of scope and swing.
and I'm a bit surprised so many boat owners balking at $300 - You know you own a boat, right?

I'm intrigued, and I think $300 legit, if it's that reliable of a solution, but only if.

Has anyone considered a solution whereby a transponder relaying GPS location can be attached to an anchor, then talk to an electronic unit on the boat to monitor all details and further expand reporting distance to phone, etc.? I gather water depth may greatly effect signal strength, but the accuracy of movement could be greatly improved by something actually attached to the anchor.
Cost would likely be near the same for a rugged, submerged, reliable strength GPS receiver like that tho. Just thinking out loud.

Lawrence D said:

Has anyone considered a solution whereby a transponder relaying GPS location can be attached to an anchor, then talk to an electronic unit on the boat to monitor all details and further expand reporting distance to phone, etc.? I gather water depth may greatly effect signal strength, but the accuracy of movement could be greatly improved by something actually attached to the anchor.
Cost would likely be near the same for a rugged, submerged, reliable strength GPS receiver like that tho. Just thinking out loud.

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"submerged" GPS won't work. High frequencies that GPS uses will not travel through water (very far - think inches) let alone after traveling from space.

Boathealer is correct about underwater radio. We have figured a better solution for getting the information from this anchor to the boat. And Lawrence D thanks for your validation on the price. If you balk at $300 for an innovative safety device for your boat then you have forgotten what BOAT really stands for.

rtheriault said:

Boathealer is correct about underwater radio. We have figured a better solution for getting the information from this anchor to the boat. And Lawrence D thanks for your validation on the price. If you balk at $300 for an innovative safety device for your boat then you have forgotten what BOAT really stands for.

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Those that have mastered the old ways may dispute your claim that just because it is new tech it is a "safety" device.

rtheriault said:

Thanks for the info and comments. A cable attached to the anchor chain would probably get destroyed so we are looking at alternatives for sending the signal back to the boat.

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rtheriault said:

Boathealer is correct about underwater radio. We have figured a better solution for getting the information from this anchor to the boat. And Lawrence D thanks for your validation on the price. If you balk at $300 for an innovative safety device for your boat then you have forgotten what BOAT really stands for.

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Whatever method you employ if all it does is get the signal back to the boat then it does not supersede any geofence systems already available.
Along with others I have a geofence system anchor watch that works on GPS and cell service to notify me wherever I may be. It is able to sound an alarm on board to let me know. Does it work without cell service away from the bat, probably not. Remote areas remain old school knowledge & deployment.
Recently I was on the other end of the country and my system allowed monitoring the boat for peace of mind at the dock.
I doubt I will anchor in a desolate place and ignore the boat for hours on end. However, a new system that would peak my interest will include alerts transmitted within a range of where I venture away from the boat when there is no cell service. If I am on board current systems will alert me.

Anchor Movement Detection

I'd be interested in the product. I'm not in a position to invest in development, though.

I encourage you to go for it. This is how great things begin.

Any progress?

rtheriault said:

I have designed a remote anchor drag detector that uses a sophisticated accelerometer to detect lateral anchor movements, a positive indicator of anchor slippage in real time, and transmits alarm information to a subscribers cell phone.

The advantages of this over GPS geofencing systems are apparent but include:
- detect movements of the anchor not the boat (don't wait until your boat is drifting to know your anchor is slipping)
- system is extremely accurate and eliminates inaccuracy and false alarms with GPS based systems
- gives positive indicator of initial anchor setting and any anchor slipping in real time (can be used to assist in anchor setting and retrieval)
- provides peace of mind allowing the boat owner to relax on the boat or onshore
- system utilizes a buoy to provide visual indication of anchor position to boat owner and other boaters

The system is simple and will be sold at a reasonable price point ($300-$500 depending on optional functionality such as designed for remote locations out of cell phone range).

Looking for feedback on the system and anyone interested in investing to develop the prototype and be part of the business development. I think marine insurance companies might also be interested in this additional safety device aboard their insured boats.

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I think the idea of monitoring the position of the anchor, rather than the boat is a great idea and if you can do this it should be a game changer.

I'm not sure about the buoy because that would seem to make deploying and retrieving the anchor more complicated and difficult and the price will seem high to many folks compared to their "free" apps.

Best of luck and I hope it works out.

Soo-Valley said:

..........
Recently I was on the other end of the country and my system allowed monitoring the boat for peace of mind at the dock.
.

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AIS and marinetraffic.com will allow that.

rwidman said:

AIS and marinetraffic.com will allow that.

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How will AIS & marine traffic tell me state of battery, or if the bilge pump ran?