Opinions wanted.

Hi to everyone. I am new to trawler forums and I wish to get some opinions from you trawler pros on some trawlers and outfitting them. Just a quick background on myself, I have steamed the Great lakes for years. I have piloted vessels from 16’ up to 85’ on the lake and have enjoyed every second of it.

With that said, my wife and I are looking to make the jump to the sal****er realm. We are planning on purchasing a new trawler in the next year and fitting it to our needs. We will be living aboard this vessel and will be making long voyages, like voyages from Port Charlotte Fl to the Hawaii Island and also do the great loop if and when the mood strikes us.

I am fully aware of the cost of purchasing a new Trawler and outfitting it. We have the capital to achieve our goals, so that is not an issue for us, thank God. We have worked hard to finally enjoy life in our early 50’s

Now here is what I have come up with and I would like the Trawler Pro’s input to see what their opinions are.

Vessel. The New Fleming 78.
Spec. Out with some of these options.

Fuel Tanks 3,500 USG. Water 500 USG. Black Water 250 USG. Gray Water 250 USG.
2 Lube oil tanks 95 USG
2 ONAN EQD 32 KW 60 hz Generators.
Power plant. Twin Man V12 1550 Hp
Furuno. 3D (Main)
Garmin Plotter (Back up)
Radar X7 96nm
Autopilot (Not sure yet on brand)
Sonar (Not sure yet on brand)
Radio VHF (Not sure yet on brand)
Tender minim of 15’
Plus all safety items that will be needed.

If you have a different opinion on the Fleming 78 or any of the other equipment, please specify your reasoning as to why or why not. I do understand that everyone has their own opinion of their favorite vessels but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking quality, safety, longevity but most of all a vessel that fits our needs. I’m sure I’ve left out many features that may be needed but this makes a good start for me to continue my research on trawlers and all desired equipment. Thank you for your time and patience.

Cordially,

H. Foster

2 people? The "kids are coming to visit",, yea right.

If you are going to be on the boat long term a vessel this size will need a paid crew just to wash it,.

Dockage at $5.00 a ft in many areas is a big money pit.

50ish is far easier to be a slave of , after all retirement is supposed to be about kicking back , not becoming a boat boy.

2 ONAN EQD 32 KW 60 hz Generators.

You might contemplate two different sized noisemakers , big when 5 or more air cond are online with the freezers & scuba compressor & water maker.

Say 6KW for piece at night with minor loads.

FF

Hey FF. Good point on the 6Kw. I will look into that.. Thanks. As far as $5.00 per foot being a money pit and a grew to wash her down.. Being able to afford a new vessel that size I am not worried about $5.00 a foot my friend.. But thanks for the input. And yes we will be having guest aboard alot..

Wow. A Fleming 78 would be a very nice vessel indeed.

A couple of comments:

The fitting out of the boat will depend a lot on whether you plan of spending your time primarily at anchor or at a dock; FF's comment re generators speaks to that.

Re the dinghy, if room allows I would suggest getting two, one distance running, e.g., a RIB with 30-50 HP, and something for close in exploration, such as a rowing Whitehall or kayaks.

Sounds like you're ready for a great adventure!

Conrad. Thanks for your input.. To answer your question. hit and miss. We will spend at most a week at one place (that is if we like it.) Dock or anchored. Our plan is to keep on moving as must as we can.. I have thought about the second tender and a Kayak as well.. Always best to have 2 for supplies my freind and something to explore with.

The Fleming I thought was the best one. Low profile and the draft is good for the Keys and the Bahama. Thanks for you input.

There are some great articles on choosing a trawler at www.nordhavn.com

One of the main points I remember is their advice to choose the smallest vessel that will suit your needs.

Remember that you will be manuvering the boat to get fuel, provisions, etc...

A boat that size will be difficult to get dockage for. The draft will eliminate many nice places to visit. I have a hard time imagining taking a boat that size around the great loop.

Having paid crew onboard might be something you can afford, but do you really want to loose the privacy of being alone on your boat?

At least you're thinking about it instead of just writing a check. Thats a good start.

The builder generously provides that boat's performance curves showing fuel consumption rates and range.

Fleming 78 Perfomrance Curves

Anyone know how long one would be tied up to the fuel dock to take on 3000 gallons of fuel?

Hfoster, will you be starting your cruising in Taiwan?

I know that you are not looking for other boat suggestions, but when I saw your comment about long distance voyaging, including Hawaii, I wonder how suitable the Fleming is. Their site suggests a 2000 mile range at 10 knots; slowing down would improve the range but it would be tight.
Soooo....have you looked at Norhavns or Dashew FPB 64's?

Fleming, by the way, does not refer to his vessels as trawlers!

Ksanders. Thanks for you input. I have look at Nordhavn. Great Vessels but a bit to much on the air draft for me. As far as the Great loop with a Vessel that size. I know I cannot take that last leg of the Erie canal. To much air darft. But I am looking to get to Lake Eire in the summer time and the F-78 will do that for me.

As far as handling Her.. I took a F-75 out at Burring yachts.. With the the front and aft thrusters she hadle pretty good in tight spaces. Sure there will be some spots that will be a nightmare so I have to pick and choose the right spots. The draft is not that back on F-78. at the most 6'. With a Nordhavn 7+ feet due to her full displacement. So I ruled her out along with the K.K's. Yes I am thinking about it. It's easy to write a check, but harder to know what you are writting it for!

Thanks for your input!

Conrad said:

Fleming, by the way, does not refer to his vessels as trawlers!

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Many/most of the participants in this forum have boats capable of greater than hull speed so aren't (nonfishing) "trawlers" either.

Conrad. Yeah it might be a bit much with the fuel spec at 10 knots to make that trip. From the spec sheet and with chatting with Burring yachts that say she will make it... (Like they will really know what that sea will be like at that time.) I did see though that at 8 knots your range is upped to around 2,800 to 3,000 nm with the Man v12... That remainds to be seen as yet. Hawaii is around 2300nm from the weatcoast, give or take. So with that in mind.. I may see if I can up my fuel tanks to 4,000 USG or drop down to small powerplant. I am not a big fan on Man. But hey if you take care of your power plant then it should take care of you.

Thank for the tip on the other Vessel I will check it out.!

I would look very closely at the Dashew, as on first blush the austere bare aluminum look may suggest a lack of sophistication or luxury. It is a very sophisticated vessel.

Other equipment I'd want to consider for long passages:

Watermaker
SSB Comm Radio
Satellite Comm
AIS

Markpierce.. A good friend of mine has a old shimp boat with a 3,200 USG fuell tank. it took around a 1hour to fill her using a 4" hose from a Fuel tank Truck.

Will make the trip to Taiwan as she is being built but will do the sea trials are Burring when the order is placed.

Thanks FlyWrite.. I will look in to that... What brands would you use?

Will do Conrad. and Thanks.

Here's more food for thought...

Instead of thinking that you need this certain size boat, or this certain size and brand of boat...


I'd be thinking about how many people I am going to really have on board.
Do you want or need a regular ships office?
What on board activities do you see yourself doing?
Do you want a paid captain and crew on board all the time?

From this you can determine how many staterooms and other ammenities you need. This will dictate the size of boat you need. Then and only then go brand shopping.

My concern here is that you might be getting into a larger vessle than you'll be happy with for two person exploring.

I've had allot of boats and have learned that as we went to larger and larger boats we've been more comfortable of course but we've also lost the ability to tuck into small places, and find an easy place to dock for example.

If you've already purchased the Fleming then of course this doesn't matter. Fit it out with every gadget to make it self sufficent.

hfoster said:

Thanks FlyWrite.. I will look in to that... What brands would you use?

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I've never researched these items since they are well outside my realm of 'boating'. In the CA Delta, we never leave cellphone coverage, let alone sight of land. But I'm sure there are several experienced mariners here who can help in that regard.

I hope you keep us updated periodically with the progress of your purchase and travels so we can all live vicariously through your experiences.

Fleming

You have probably have already read Tony Fleming's stories at Fleming Yachts - Tony's Adventures. A great read as Tony love photography. Venture I did the Pacific Ocean with his second boat Venture II doing the Atlantic Ocean. A lady who works for us and her other half did the trip around Iceland with him on Venture II. They had a great time! Both of Tony's personal boats are Fleming 65's.

Ksanders. That is a every good point. 6 to 8 people on board beside my wife and I on week trips. Long trip 4 to with my wife and I. 3 state rooms plus a crew cabin that sleeps 2 and one of state room that will sleep 3 if needed. The one of the reason why I want the Fleming is that bill it as a couples vessel. Easy to handle for a couple as they say. With it's low profile and the test runs I have made with a F-75 we had no trouble handling the 75 with just the 2 of use. Docking and all. As far as a full time crew. No.. The day we cannot handle her is the day we go back to dirt.. LOL we both are 50 so I do not see that happening for sometime Knock on teck wood! lol

My wife and I are both hard workers.. So activies will be working the vessel and taking care of her during the day... Night time is kick back and relax and enjoy the furits of a hard days work.. Thanks for your input

Rochepoint. Yes I have seen the videos and have read Tony's story. My wife and I are in no hurry. Taking our time to enjoy all there is to see is a big part of us making this jump.
Thank for your input.

I'm not quite a trawler pro yet, but I don't think you can go wrong with a Fleming. Especially given the reasons you have outlined.

hfoster said:

Ksanders. That is a every good point. 6 to 8 people on board beside my wife and I on week trips. Long trip 4 to with my wife and I. 3 state rooms plus a crew cabin that sleeps 2 and one of state room that will sleep 3 if needed. The one of the reason why I want the Fleming is that bill it as a couples vessel. Easy to handle for a couple as they say. With it's low profile and the test runs I have made with a F-75 we had no trouble handling the 75 with just the 2 of use. Docking and all. As far as a full time crew. No.. The day we cannot handle her is the day we go back to dirt.. LOL we both are 50 so I do not see that happening for sometime Knock on teck wood! lol

My wife and I are both hard workers.. So activies will be working the vessel and taking care of her during the day... Night time is kick back and relax and enjoy the furits of a hard days work.. Thanks for your input

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Good, then you've thought it out. Thats a recipe for happy boating.

One thing you'll need to outfit the boat is satellite communications.

We went with the KVH systems model V3. This gives us telephone and internet anywhere in the world. We have a US based number so folks can reach us easily.

Onboard we have both wired and cordless phones tied to the system. Our internet is both wired and wi-fi. That is a very nice feature. We get around 2MB download speeds, but upload is limited to 128K

For a boat that large I'd recommend either the V3 or the larger version being the V7. With the V7 you get the same upload speed as the download.

Either way KVH support is great. They have a 24X7 staffed NOCC, and can remote in to your unit any time to run system checks etc... They also have repair technicians world wide to fix it if it breaks.

hfoster said:

Markpierce.. A good friend of mine has a old shimp boat with a 3,200 USG fuell tank. it took around a 1hour to fill her using a 4" hose from a Fuel tank Truck.

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Did a little research. The typical gas pump has a rate of between 50 to 10 gallons a minute. (Isn't the normal pump nozel an inch or less in diameter?) So, loading 3000 gallons of fuel would take between 5 and 10 hours! Presume you won't load up at the typical marina gas dock.

What's the diameter of a Fleming's fuel loading ports?

Another system you might seriously consider is a sewage treatment system.

There are lots of places where it might be illegal or impurdent to macerate your waste, and pumpouts are not readily available. Especially for a boat that size.

A sewage treatment system solves that problem. We have used sewage treatment systems on our boats for many years with no issues.

Our current boat has a raritan hold N treat control tied to a Purasan treatment system. This works well for our boat since we use fresh water in the heads. If you're going with salt water heads the electro-scan is a good option.

For a boat that size you might want to consider one of the micro biological units on the market. Raritan makes one of these units as well.

Although there are areas in the US and probably world wide that strictly prohibit discharge of any kind, sewage treatment systems solve the sewage discharge issue in most sal****er locations. A treatment system coupled with a holding tank and lockout would be legal pretty much anywhere.

The Flemming will be an awesome boat, and no worries about handling it, you'll get the hang of it. I would be concerned about the engines though, there massive, and no doubt very thirsty. I'd recommend you think carefully about how fast you really need to go. A small decrease in speed would allow you to down size the engines, reduce fuel consumption and maintenance costs, and increase range with the same size tanks. Over the life of the boat, the fuel savings will be dramatic, money you could spend on things that are way more fun than diesel. ........Arctic Traveller

Trawler training at www.arctictraveller.com

markpierce said:

The typical gas pump has a rate of between 50 to 10 gallons a minute.

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Meant to say between 5 and 10 gallons.

AS you intend long passages 3 items I would want.

#1 a ship style centrifugal fuel cleaner as you will be fueling from drums and other interesting sources.

A tiny electric pump and a toss away filters doesn't cut it.

Second would be fuel tanks that are servicable , see the archives for a good design to hand to the builder. When he whines its not a great fit with some furniture , remind him of who is paying for the boat , and who will be inoperative from cheap boxes of fuel, instead of real servicable tanks.

Third I would demand A CPP, controlable pitch prop ,if its not included, to allow you to increase the range when operating in long range displacement mode.
EGT required too.

FF

Actic Travller.. Thanks for the input.. I agree with you on handling the Fleming.. Even my wife handling her (Which I want her to do as well and she is gunho about it) Is one reason why I like the Fleming.

You have a great point on the power plants. My main speed I would like to run is between 8 to 10 knots, but as we all know there will be times, one will need to hit flank speed to out run bad weather. I put the Man v12 in because that is the standard power plant. I have the options of these power plants as well.

Man V8 1200, Man V8 1000. Man 800. I really have not broken down which one best for me as of yet but I will.. I have looked at all the spec of them, but really have not got down to the brass tax as of yet. The V12 may not be the best in the long run. Time will tell that. Any thought you or any others may have on the power plants is always welcome. I am not a big fan on the Man power plants. I do know my way around diesels. Maintaining my power plants is alway high on my list. They are your main life line on your vessel as we all know.

Again Thanks for your input.

F.F.. With you on all 3 points.. They are a must in my book. The CCP controlable pitch prop is included. I am also with you on demanding the items I want. As you said. Who is writting the check! Also this is one reason why I am here on this site. To get the input from people like you and others on those items. Walking in with a clear view of what you want is always the best way to go.

Thanks for the input.