Docking stern to

I’m transitioning from a 42’ sailboat to a Nordhavn 40. after 15 years with this sailboat I am a novice with the Nordhavn. There is no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so how do you dock stern to not being able to see? Also the bow is so much higher than my sailboat so how do you pick up a morning ball? There are no side decks on the trawler. Any one know of a good teacher in the Ft Meyers Fl area? Thanks

isphh said:

I’m transitioning from a 42’ sailboat to a Nordhavn 40. after 15 years with this sailboat I am a novice with the Nordhavn. There is no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so how do you dock stern to not being able to see? Also the bow is so much higher than my sailboat so how do you pick up a morning ball? There are no side decks on the trawler. Any one know of a good teacher in the Ft Meyers Fl area? Thanks

Click to expand...

I would add an aft docking station in the cockpit. See Teds (slowhand) set up. Perfect for stern too docking or locks on a shorthanded/solo crewed vsl.

Seasense up in Sarasota is excellent, my wife and a friend took some on-board classes with them. They will come down to you.

Trawler Training – Sea Sense… The Sailing & Power Boating School

Our Hatteras 56MY had high freeboard in front and we used a long extendable boat hook to pick up moorings. We had walk around decks as well, so in some instances pit was easier to pick the mooring pennant up from the side and walk it up to the bow. Moorings come in a variety of designs though.

What drove you to buy that particular boat?

Go bow in unless the marina prohibits or the finger pier does not reach the gate. I see lots of Nordhavns docked bow in.

Back up cameras are inexpensive and easy to install.
If you post a picture of your boat maybe I can help answer the mooring question other than suggesting a boat hook. We have side decks and grab moorings from about mid ship then walk the line forward.

We had similar problems with our Selene 47. The mooring ball solution is to pick up mid ships with a long line, then carry it forward to your tie off position. We never, by choice, backed into a slip - much easier to back out. This assumes, of course, you are able to get off the boat at the slip. Once, when total novices on a charter trawler in the Chesapeake, we even climbed off the bow onto the dock!!!!!

I'll also recommend picking up a mooring from a lower spot on the side deck and then walking up to the bow with it. Given any kind of wind, it helps to have someone at the controls while doing this so you aren't dragging the boat around or needing to use a 100 ft line to avoid fighting it.

For docking, do you have a flybridge? If so, given someone to handle lines while you're up top, it might be easier to back in from up top. Otherwise, consider adding a camera. You don't have to be able to see everything and you might want someone on the aft deck to spot you the first time you do it. But once you've done it a few times, you start to get used to knowing where things are in your blind spots and being able to not hit the things you can't see.

isphh said:

I’m transitioning from a 42’ sailboat to a Nordhavn 40. after 15 years with this sailboat I am a novice with the Nordhavn. There is no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so how do you dock stern to not being able to see? Also the bow is so much higher than my sailboat so how do you pick up a morning ball? There are no side decks on the trawler. Any one know of a good teacher in the Ft Meyers Fl area? Thanks

Click to expand...

Single handing? Back-up cameras, maybe.

Or with crew? If the latter, crew can call distances as you approach stern-to. (Headsets or some other comms system may help, depending.)

Often, in a 4-way tie-up, once one forward or aft spring line is attached (depending on wind or tide/current direction), you're docked. Everything else is just tidying up.

We pick up mooring balls from our cockpit, then walk the line to the bow.

-Chris

isphh said:

I’m transitioning from a 42’ sailboat to a Nordhavn 40. after 15 years with this sailboat I am a novice with the Nordhavn. There is no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so how do you dock stern to not being able to see?

Click to expand...

Congratulations on a nice boat. Back in the late 90's through the mid 2000's, I delivered many Nordhavns, and I liked the N40 a lot.

First, I second the suggestion to contact SeaSense in St Pete FL. I haven't talked to the two women who run it for years, but they are pros and have a ton of experience. If you call them, tell them Peter from "SeaSkills" said hello (we met at a couple TrawlerFests).

Second, there are many boats like the N40 that have limited sight-lines aft. As a suggestion, you first want to get a feel for how quickly the boat develops its own momentum, which you will discover is pretty damn slow, meaning the boat is pretty 'sticky' on the water and does not quickly respond to wind forces (current is another matter, but less of an issue in FL than PNW). The reason this is important is it will eventually give you confidence that you have time to put the boat in neutral and walk side-to-side out the PH doors, lean over, and look. Somewhere I have a video of a single-handed professional captain backing-down a 60-foot trawler at a Trawler Fest into slips made for 45-footers. He moved slow and took his time, must have walked side-to-side a half dozen times.

You obviously have a bow thruster, but you need to get comfortable with kicking the stern by first positioning the rudder, then giving a shot of forward engine, then back to neutral. You also need to get comfortable with how your boat responds to prop-walk (she has a left-hand prop, so walks to starboard in reverse). I know many people talk about tossing a weighted milk jug in open water and doing drills around it, but I always felt it better to have closer proximity to actual hard stuff. Going down a fairway, turning around, and exiting gets you good practice in back-n-fill. After you're comfortable, back-out of a fairway (please, calm weather). Landing on side-ties/bulk-heads, leaving a side-tie berth by backing away. These all get you much more comfortable with how your boat moves in reverse, and how to build muscle memory.

The N40 backs-down pretty well (my Willard 36, though better than most sailboats, does not back-down very well). Most N40's I drove had an Edson knob on the wheel so you could spin the rudder side to side pretty quickly so you can kick the stern when needed. It takes some practice to get a feel of choreographing the wheel/rudder with shots of engine thrust, but if you take it slow, it gives you time to think and to recover. If there is a larger slip available to practice (one for a 50-60 footer), its a great way to learn. Chose a calm day when you can do 3-hours of docking drills. Plenty of fenders and a mild-manner crew are your best friends.

Good luck - the captains at SeaSense Boating are the best - you are lucky to be nearby.

Peter

isphh said:

There is no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so how do you dock stern to not being able to see?

Click to expand...

Poke your head out the pilothouse doors, with some experience you'll learn where the boat ends. Don't chicken out and always take the easy way out, LEARN how to handle the boat so when you need those skills to get into a tight spot you have the ability to manage it.

As others noted, get a pair of "marriage savers" and have your crew relay your position. Get in the habit of having crew relay POSITION, NOT instructions. There's one helmsperson. You need information, not conflicting opinions on how the boat should be handled.

That said, there are boat handlers who "have it", and some who simply don't have the situational awareness to translate intent to proper action. Your mate may "have it", don't short change your crew. Cross-training is a plus!

Maerin said:

As others noted, get a pair of "marriage savers" and have your crew relay your position. Get in the habit of having crew relay POSITION, NOT instructions. There's one helmsperson. You need information, not conflicting opinions on how the boat should be handled.

That said, there are boat handlers who "have it", and some who simply don't have the situational awareness to translate intent to proper action. Your mate may "have it", don't short change your crew. Cross-training is a plus!

Click to expand...

Agreed. 1 person is in charge for docking or anchoring. Of course, in some situations it makes sense to have the person in charge not be the one at the helm. So things work one of 2 ways:

Option 1: Person at helm is in charge, others provide info but not instructions

Option 2: Someone else is in charge, person at helm receives instructions and is basically a robot to move the controls around

Personally, I usually operate with option 1 for docking, option 2 for anchoring.

With our dinghy on the cabin trunk aft of the pilothouse we can't see anything behind us. A $40 backup camera from Amazon solved the problem.

.... and yes I had a reason for mounting the camera upside down

Sailor of Fortune said:

I would add an aft docking station in the cockpit. See Teds (slowhand) set up. Perfect for stern too docking or locks on a shorthanded/solo crewed vsl.

Click to expand...

This post has a couple of pics of my docking station.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Transom throttle control

My single lever controls the transmission and throttle. Behind it is the bow thruster control. On the side is a jog lever which allows me to control the rudder position through the autopilot. With cable driven engine controls, routing the cables can be a little challenging. With electronic engine controls, it's pretty simple as all 3 controls would be small electric cables.

The most frequent comment when people watch me dock side or stern in SOLO, is "That's just not fair".

Ted

O C Diver said:

My single lever controls the transmission and throttle. Behind it is the bow thruster control. On the side is a jog lever which allows me to control the rudder position through the autopilot. With cable driven engine controls, routing the cables can be a little challenging. With electronic engine controls, it's pretty simple as all 3 controls would be small electric cables.
Ted

Click to expand...

I've driven a number of trawlers with multiple stations (larger Nordhavns routinely come with wing stations in either side of the Portuguese Bridge plus the stern station). The last few years I've seen a number of boats with Yacht Controller wireless stations, though those are a bit glitchy for my tastes. The stern control station is great if you have the room and money. Aft deck on a N40 is pretty tight, but I'm sure there are more than a few N40's with them given how many Nordhavn owners tend to 'tick most boxes' for options.

isphh said:

I’m transitioning from a 42’ sailboat to a Nordhavn 40. after 15 years with this sailboat I am a novice with the Nordhavn. There is no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so how do you dock stern to not being able to see? Also the bow is so much higher than my sailboat so how do you pick up a morning ball? There are no side decks on the trawler. Any one know of a good teacher in the Ft Meyers Fl area? Thanks

Click to expand...

Join the Nordhavn owners group and pick their brains.. they are a helpful bunch.


Find a empty 60' slip and practice there.. the extra fairway and width will allow for some error room and you can get a feel for the boat safely.


Don't be afraid to try what may be seemingly unconventional maneuvers.. you should find what really works for you.


As previously mentioned .. really learn how the boat's stern kicks using big rudder and short throttle blips, the stern will really move sideways pretty well.


Enjoy your N40!
HOLLYWOOD

This is also our first boat with side decks.

Stern in - from the flybridge is much easier as noted by others. I have also found its easier to turn around and face aft, rather than look over my shoulder and use my opposite hand on the the shifter/throttle. Takes some practice to get used to it, then it becomes second nature.

Moorings - We pick up a lot of mooring cans (8 on our last trip). They have a bow and stern hawser that is connected by a sand line. We have gotten pretty good at it, and no issues not having side decks. Pick up forward loop, attach to boat, walk aft as far as possible with the sand line, hand it to the person in the aft cockpit who can use a boat hook if necessary, attach aft hawser.

A friend with a Nordhavn 35 who single hands a lot made the attached device. When he grabs the bow hawser, he attaches the loop. It is made fast to the aft cleat prior to doing this. He then goes aft, and uses the line previously attached to the cleat to pull/shake the loop along the sand line back to him in order to retrieve the aft hawser. The yellow weight is there to move it past the little weights that are on the sand line. Not sure how yours are configured and whether this would help, but it's a neat idea. I am going to make one for myself this Winter.

If you can..... use the tops of the pilings at guides. If you can see the tops of the pilings, you can see the perimeter of the slip.

For picking up a mooring pendant, You can use a long collapsible boat pole. Davis makes a 12 foot collapsible boat pole:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276155|2276123&id=130794

Use the rub rail. Put the cheek of the boat against a pole and from that point you know where you are.

Boats with large rudder will steer in reverse if you get some speed. Try it away from the dock. Get the boat moving then see if you can gain control once it is moving well.

I don't know if it would work in practice but you might consider large, rear-view mirrors on each side of the helm.

You have received some good advice so far on docking stern to. Getting "professional" or experienced "hands on" instruction on your boat is well worth it. Your new boat will handle quite a bit differently than your sailboat.
As far as mooring buoys are concerned; there is a product called a "Happy Hooker" that attaches to the end of a boat hook. If the "attachment ring" on the buoy either "sits up" or can be coaxed to sit up, then I have found that the Hooker works well. However, sometimes the ring just lays flat against the buoy and make using the Hooker difficult.
Another option (maybe?) would be to pickup the buoy at the stern (swim grid) using a very long line coming back from a bow cleat, and using a thinner "heaving line" that is tied to the mooring line, "toss it" to the pilothouse side deck. Then the buoy can be basically pulled forward and secured as the boat naturally falls back (if there is any wind).

Anyway, just an idea.
Regards,
Tom

I second firehoser's recommendation on the Happy Hooker, with similar caveats. Also picking up the mooring along side or at the stern is very helpful. It always surprises me to see boats trying to pick up the buoy off the bow after the pilot has lost sight of it. Also, I always try to come up on the buoy from down wind/current.

Another product for catching cleats that we have found helpful is called the "dock stick". It simplifies tieing up without having to jump to the dock.

And with all things boating, practice makes perfect.

Before you approach the mooring ball connect your anchor bridal to the bow cleats. When you get close to the ball toss the bridal with the chain hook in the middle over the ball, lassoing it, now you are attached to the mooring and have all the time in the world to fiddle with the ring and pennant on the mooring float. Thanks to Pascal for this idea......

Woodland Hills said:

Before you approach the mooring ball connect your anchor bridal to the bow cleats. When you get close to the ball toss the bridal with the chain hook in the middle over the ball, lassoing it, now you are attached to the mooring and have all the time in the world to fiddle with the ring and pennant on the mooring float. Thanks to Pascal for this idea......

Click to expand...

Works on some mooring designs, requires some rodeo skills. When you have a new to you mooring field on your itinerary, call the harbormaster well in advance (like days) to find out how the moorings are designed and best practices for capturing them.

I'm in the camp of the cockpit controls.


But only IF you don't have a mate and you occasionally fight winds or current.


If there's no wind or current, just look out the window and make decisions. With wind or current it's a different ball game, and a mate at the helm and you in the cockpit giving instructions and working the thrusters with your remote really works well.

isphh said:

... Also the bow is so much higher than my sailboat so how do you pick up a morning ball? There are no side decks on the trawler.

Click to expand...

We have an extra long boathook, the IG bow is high too.
No side decks is a problem. I stand outside the helm door to sight and line up the dock, reaching in for the gear controls to steer going backwards. I can also see through the aft windows,but not as accurately to get the boat right alongside. A docking coach for an hour or two will be a big help to you.

Happy Hooker on Sandpiper.

It's so simple but ingenious.

One of those "boating gadgets" that actually work and once used a couple times, can't boat without. We've been using one for nearly 35 years in the PNW. We tie to two buoys every summer, Hope Island waiting to go through Deception Pass and Newcastle in Nanimo for the view from the anchorage. Picking up a buoy is made easy with the HH.

It helps to wear headsets to communicate while approaching the buoy and threading the ring with the Happy Hooker.

Have everything prepared before approaching the buoy. Small line from Happy Hooker tied to heavy line and heavy line cleated. Make sure lines on the correct side of railings.

Caught the buoys ring first try one time but had lines on wrong side of railings. Current was swift at Hope Island and it took two of us to hang on and untangle the line. A real cluster!

Stern to seems more for the party crowd , as the entire boat can usually be viewed from the dock.

For a day or two bow in is usually more private and quieter.

Thanks for the coaching

Thank you everyone for the coaching. Much appreciated.

I just thought of another thing: When traveling, your boat's layout may determine which way you want to face. As an example, my side entrance door is on the port side and I only have a midship break in the rail on the port, not the starboard (stbd is aft only). And my power ports are on the port side. So at a strange marina, I'll either pull in or back in, whichever puts my port side to the finger pier.