Possible June Trip to PNW ... questions

Thank you for the post RCook. You have given me a lot to think about.

I think I have a lot to learn about the tides and currents in the PNW. Good thing I have so long to educate myself and ask folks questions. I have never experienced tidal swings on the order of what I am reading about. I am also needing to learn more about anchoring - usually my Danforth with about 12 feet of chain is sufficient - 150 feet of rode, even in 3-4 knot current. I am now looking at much more chain and a different anchor ( I do have a windless). Thinking maybe a Delta?

Bob.

As you’re probably discovering, PNW tides can be extreme. Swings over 10’ are not uncommon. The currents & eddies produced in even deep water are impressive and to be respected. The volume of water exchanges between sound and sea, I can’t even fathom. Get tidal flow against wind and rough, disorganized chop is formed, making for a not so fun time. There are some passes that need to be crossed at slack, especially in slower moving boats. You’ll see sail boats lined up and “waiting” at say, Deception Pass or Dodd Narrows in BC. We even pay attention in our boat and it’s capable of much more speed than 10 knots.


We used a Delta for years here and it performed well. (A 14# but on 50’ of 1/4” chain) I finally upgraded both anchor and the weight of said anchor just last year to a 20# Vulcan. When it bites into the mud, you know it. Most good anchorages here are mud, but eelgrass or seaweed sometimes inhibits penetration. Very little rocky bottoms, at least in my experience.

Bob B. said:

Thank you for the post RCook. You have given me a lot to think about.

I think I have a lot to learn about the tides and currents in the PNW. Good thing I have so long to educate myself and ask folks questions. I have never experienced tidal swings on the order of what I am reading about. I am also needing to learn more about anchoring - usually my Danforth with about 12 feet of chain is sufficient - 150 feet of rode, even in 3-4 knot current. I am now looking at much more chain and a different anchor ( I do have a windless). Thinking maybe a Delta?

Bob.

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I have a 27 Glacier Bay, (8000 pound boat). I use a Danforth around here with 15 feet of chain and 200 feet of rode. Works fine. If I was going to buy another anchor first I would just add some more chain. But if I really wanted to upgrade, it would be a ROCNA, but its definitely not necessary for a 2 week trip of San Juan islands. There are many many good anchorages with excellent holding. You can get reviews on Active Captain. If you don't have that, worth getting. Most of the parks we have suggested also have mooring buoys. There are many good apps like Navionics. AquaMap etc, that will give you tidal currents and also be useful for navigation and trip planning.

Bob B. said:

Thank you for the post RCook. You have given me a lot to think about.

I think I have a lot to learn about the tides and currents in the PNW. Good thing I have so long to educate myself and ask folks questions. I have never experienced tidal swings on the order of what I am reading about. I am also needing to learn more about anchoring - usually my Danforth with about 12 feet of chain is sufficient - 150 feet of rode, even in 3-4 knot current. I am now looking at much more chain and a different anchor ( I do have a windless). Thinking maybe a Delta?

Bob.

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I wouldn't worry about your rode. A bit of chain and nylon rode is just fine. The Danforth is fine as well since a lot of the good anchorages have a mud bottom. However, there are a few when you can find sand with enough grass on the bottom that the Danforth may have a hard time penetrating. Just a matter of getting a good set.

I'd also add that you shouldn't be intimidated by the tides and currents. I can't think of any spots in the San Juan Islands where you have to worry too much about timing currents. The point about watching for wind against current waves is a good one. However, if you put in at Annacortes you just want to cross Rosario at a time when you don't have a strong wind against current. Most of the passes in the San Juan's have currents rarely get above 3 knots so aren't too bad.


As others have mentioned, Ports and Passes for the year you are going to be there is a great resource. Nice to know the tides when you drop anchor to help determine how much scope you want.

If you have the bucks, get a modern anchor upsized to the next anchor based on what the chart for the anchor manufacture recommends. So with my boat, Rocna said #10 would be fine so I went #15. I can't comment on the average anchorages in the San Juan's but in many parts of coastal BC, a 40 foot depth is not uncommon. Then you need to add the top of your bow to the water, lets say 5 feet. Then you need to take into account the tide. If you are at 40 feet, at the bottom of the tide drop and you have a 15 foot tide gain, then you have to add that. To be reasonably comfortable, I would suggest 250 feet or more.

Because of these depths and the angle your anchor needs to attain and maintain, I would also suggest a minimum of 50 to 100 feet of chain to help the anchor rode angle to anchor.

Bob B. said:

rsn48 - cheese heads from BC - funny. Madison is an hour and a bit away form me, we live in the country - hilly thick timber of the drift-less zone, close to the Wi River. Cool to hear from a real cheese head ( or x cheese head).

As to my truck ... it is about 7.5 thousand pounds with a very long wheel base. It has a 1 ton Asin 6 speed tranny, heavy duty boxed frame, over sized sway bars, one ton axles (from their 1 ton nissan work van). The truck is pretty serious, but is under powered a bit. I do take mountain travel pretty seriously and an working with the Nissan folks to make sure I have enough for safety in extreme conditions.

My trailer does have EOH brakes and is extra heavy built with a 10K gvwr as well, torsion axles and breaks on each axle. I ahve an extra wheel, tire, spindle and bearings.

I get about 10.5 mpg at 70 mph on the flats and between 9.5 and 10 in the hills. If I go 65-60, I get about 11.5 - 12 mpg towing the boat. It is not great but is ok.

My truck is rated for 11600 pounds towing. I believe it can do much more than that but I do not want to get too close to max while doing 7% grades for any amount of time.

Still, that kind of distance can be on both truck and trailer.

Bob.

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7500 lbs.?? That's heavier than an F250 with 7.3 Stroker, ext cab with 8' box and four wheel drive! Sure its that heavy??

My truck does weigh that much, mileage exempt due to size, king Cab, toolbox extra fuel tank in bed ... I weighed it at a scales when I was weighing a 23 foot center console with galvanized trailer. Truck with some gear fuel wife and I right around 7500.

I am strongly thinking about 200 feet of rode with 100 feet of chain, might keep my danforth, not sure if should upgrade or not.

Bob B. said:

My truck does weigh that much, mileage exempt due to size, king Cab, toolbox extra fuel tank in bed ... I weighed it at a scales when I was weighing a 23 foot center console with galvanized trailer. Truck with some gear fuel wife and I right around 7500.

I am strongly thinking about 200 feet of rode with 100 feet of chain, might keep my danforth, not sure if should upgrade or not.

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FWIW, my last sailboat (40’ Catalina) had 90’ of chain and 200’ of nylon 3 strand. It was always sufficient. To be honest, for a week or two in the San Juans, I think the rode you have would be sufficient. As for anchor, if you wanted to upgrade the anchor I wouldn’t be surprised if you couldn’t find a used anchor available in Anacortes or surrounds.

Being a reformed sailor, I’m as cheap as the reputation. So I am trying to avoid suggesting spending money on equipment that would only be useful for one trip. OTOH, you could buy some new chain and 3 strand for that new rode. You also could have the North American ARA distributor deliver a Sarca Excel anchor and have it waiting for you in Anacortes. You would have first rate ground tackle at that point.

Surprised the truck is that heavy! Sounds more like the GVW! Loaded.


A Danforth is a good anchor around here, most places you will anchor are soft bottom and the D is good in that. I use a 20# high tensile D on my 34 CHB with all chain rode. Holds just fine.

PM sent.

78puget-trawler,

The following is the reason I bought the truck actually ... it drives/rides like a half ton, but pulls like a 3/4. I find the size of the truck eliminates a lot of "drama" when pulling on grades, or in bad weather like heavy wind, passing semi's etc. It has a great amount of torque, but could use more Hp, it is a bit under-powered. We got it as a daily driver for me, and to pull the boat as we travel at least an hour one way - in steep terrain to boat. To that end, this last season we saw the Gulf, the upper Mississippi River and Lake Michigan. The truck is awesome. It is also much cheaper that a comparably equipt 3/4 ton from one of the big three.

My truck is a Crew cab ( I mentioned king before - incorrect). 4x4 ( mandatory where I live) SL model. and is set up to pull a fifth wheel and bumber as well. For what it is worth, I think for those who pull a lot, this truck is highly underrated.

The first Titan XDs to arrive will be Cummins-equipped crew-cab models, likely in the higher (and more profitable) trim packages. Interestingly, these trucks will have identical fifth-wheel and conventional bumper-pull max trailer capacities when properly equipped. Here's how max towing breaks down by trim level.

S: 4x2 will have a max-tow rating of 12,314 pounds; 4x4,12,038 pounds
SV: 4x2, 12, 164 pounds; 4x4, 11,888 pounds
PRO-4X: 11,784 pounds (only offered in 4x4)
SL: 4x2, 11,915 pounds; 4x4, 11,638 pounds
Platinum Reserve: 4x2, 11,836, 4x4, 10,608 pounds


Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings
All Titan XD trim levels will be classified by the government as heavy-duty trucks (meaning they have a GVWR more than 8,500 pounds) and will not be required to list their fuel economy numbers on the window sticker. Although not confirmed, we fully expect the light-duty Titan due out later next year to offer a GVWR less than 8,500 pounds, so it will have EPA fuel economy ratings for both gas engines. For now, here at the exact GVWR numbers for the crew-cab Cummins Titan XD trim levels.

All 4x2 S, SV and SL trims: 8,800 pounds
All 4x4 S, SV and SL trims: 8,990 pounds
The PRO-4X (4x4 only): 8,990 pounds
Platinum Reserve Titan: 4x2, 8,880 pounds; 4x4, 8,950 pounds


Curb Weight
As you might expect, this is a heavy pickup. Typically, factory curb weights in press release materials are on the light side because they don't include the things optioned on a real-world vehicle. With that said, here are Nissan-provided truck weights listed by trim level. All the trucks listed below are crew cabs with the Cummins V-8. For what it's worth, we did weigh a Titan XD SL 4x2 at a local truck scale, and it was just 110 pounds heavier than what is listed here.

S: 4x2, 6,709 pounds; 4x4, 6,986 pounds
SV: 4x2, 6,876 pounds; 4x4, 7,152 pounds
PRO-4X: 4x4 only, 7,257 pounds
SL: 4x2, 7,126 pounds; 4x4, 7,402 pounds
Platinum Reserve: 4x2, 7,204 pounds; 4x4, 7,480 pounds

Bob Cofer

I received your pm. I am trying to reply but am having some technical issues on my end. I will respond in a bit - still trying.

Bob.

Thanks for the info on your truck, sounds like it would be perfectly adequate for the job at hand! Must be a "monsta"! Hope you can get your boat out here to enjoy the SJ's, you wont regret it.

78puget-trawler

I am kind of kicking myself for starting this tread this time of year ... I am dying to go out there and explore now!! ... too busy at work however, boat is winterized and buttoned up for cold dark months that are on there way here soon.

Yeah the truck is really pretty nice, but it is a bit under powered. Also, I was hoping for better mileage from the 5.0 engine. All that said, I would buy one again, very happy with it so far.

I am thinking I will add like 90 - 100 feet of chain to my anchor and likely call it good. My charts are on the way - lots of dreaming to do ... just a looooong time before we get to go.

Bob.

Bob B. said:

I am thinking I will add like 90 - 100 feet of chain to my anchor and likely call it good. My charts are on the way - lots of dreaming to do ... just a looooong time before we get to go.

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The planning and dreaming can be a fun winter activity.

Subscribe for one year to Pacific Yachting.

Another book that may be a bit tough to find is “Gunkholing in the San Juan’s”. It’s a bit old, but offers a bit different perspective on the islands and has a historical touch to it.
A week is barely enough to get started. You may want to run the cost numbers for towing you boat out here against chartering. July and August are difficult times for availability, but June should be pretty easy and maybe a lower price. Coming over I-94/90 isn’t difficult until western Montana. You will have two passes of 6% for six miles both up and down. Just go down in the same gear you went up in.
I’d launch at Anacortes. They also have quite a fireworks display and Parade. Our Yacht Club went to the Islander Lopez at Fisherman Bay for many years, and the island does put on a great show. However, the Islander began charging a surcharge for the fireworks, which I didn’t mine for a day or two, but it was for whatever your length of stay was. So if we stayed four days, we were charged for all four days at $25-30 per day. Roche Harbor also has a surcharge, but only for the main days.
One rule to follow absolutely around here, do not cut the buoys. You may see locals do it, but you may also see them on the rocks.

The San Juan Islands are some of the best cruising grounds in the US. Your timing is perfect. We live close and have cruises there many times. Deer Harbor, Roche Harbor, Friday Harbor, and Fisherman’s Bay on Lopez Island have excellent marinas. It is a paradise.

Bob B, do you use a weight distribution hitch (WDH) for towing or is the hitch on your truck rated for the 11,000 pound without a WDH? on my F 250 , the Class IV hitch is rated at 6000 pounds w/o WDH and 12,500 pound with WDH.
Thanks.

I believe my hitch is rated for 10000 pounds as is my receiver. I use the heavy aluminum billet weigh safe hitch that reads my tong weight.

https://www.weigh-safe.com/

Bob.

That billet weigh safe hitch is really smart, never seen anything like that before.

One rule to follow absolutely around here, do not cut the buoys.

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Good advice. Also, be aware that there is WA. State ferry traffic to contend with along with float-planes up there. Friday Harbor for instance has both, with the seaplanes taking off & landing right in the middle of the northern entry route, just north of Brown Island.



Fisherman's Bay on Lopez has float-planes and their landing/take off "runway" is marked by two strings of several white buoys strung north to south. We anchored a tad too close the first time we visited there; we legitimately didn't know. When the first Otter took off it knocked over everything that wasn't lashed down with it's wake. It hit us full broad-side as we were facing the wind and they were taking off into it. I could see the pilot looking at us as he passed. We pulled anchor and moved.

Mainship400

My receiver hitch is not weight distributing, it is just a 2 inch receiver hitch rated for 10000 pounds and 1000 pounds tongue weight. I was not really too clear in my reply to you.

Pcpete, great advice on the bouys, sounds similar to the upper Mississippi, stay in the channel To be safe ... and away from the sea plane runways.

Bob

Those of you who have trailered in both the smokies and great divide, is there anything comparable relative to steepness of grades and length of them? I have trailered through Tennessee and my rig handled it very well. Trying to get a feel for how she will handle the mountains in Montana next summer.

Homestake Pass near Butte is over 6000 ft elevation, then there are a couple more, Lookout Pass and then 4th of July Pass, which is Idaho. Be aware that when you cross the Columbia River at Vantage WA, you have a fairly steep and long pull out of the gorge that is famous or infamous for boilovers. Ask me how I know these things!
Then you have pretty flat though often windy traveling till you head up Snoqualmie Pass at over 3000', then its downhill to Puget Sound from there.

Hi Bob,
That is an interesting hitch, and seems like a good idea.
However, if it was me towing such a large (and relatively heavy trailer) across the Rockies, I would want not only load distributing, but sway control. Especially in windy areas (or when semi trailer trucks pass close by) trailer sway can be very serious and difficult to control. Also keep in mind that depending on a number of circumstances (like what you carry in addition to the trailer and where exactly you place it), including no load distribution by your hitch, you may be overloading an axle or even just one tire. Before your trip, take your rig to a scale and weigh it. Weigh (the load on) each axle, each tire, just the truck, and finally the full load. Check the actual weights against the rating (limit) for each. Just one overloaded tire could lead to a blowout, and that could be very dangerous in a mountain pass! Check your tire pressures before you start out each day and keep the pressure up to the spec and do not exceed the rated speed for your (trailer) tires. Just like boating, what you don't know (for example loads because you never checked) can jump up and bit you (you know where ).

I am not saying anything you are proposing is overly dangerous, but like others have stated about the boating part (have the charts, guidebooks, don't cut buoys, etc.) the trailering part of your trip needs to be considered in the same light. Look into it, and prepare properly, then you will be able to enjoy the beautiful scenery both on the drive and in the San Juans'. The fact that you are here asking questions tells me that you are trying to "do it right".

Good luck,
Tom

Just something to wet your appetite.

DRIFT — DLW

PNW short ... WOW!

It is currently 14 degrees F outside here this evening ... with clear skies ... gonna get pretty cold tonight for November ... we just got a snow storm of about 6 inches yesterday. I am sitting in front of my wood stove with a nice whiskey ... dreaming about exploring that rugged beauty that you included in your film ...on liquid, not solid water. Gonna be a long winter dreaming of boating with my wife and dogs in that boreal looking paradise.

Thank you for that travel short film, gonna watch it a bunch.

Bob.

For the record: It is the work of a fellow C-Dory owner’s son. I just thought you’d like it. It Is awesome...