Upgrade to vacuflush

I'm in the process of upgrading my Jabsco electric flush head to a vacuflush.

The discharge on the electric flush is 1". The discharge on the vacuflush in 1.5". This presents what appears to be a problem on the holding tank side.

I need a 1.5" barb on the holding tank where the 1" is located now.

Keeping the same size thread and going with a larger barb or dealing with reducers looks like it might create a bottleneck.

I doubt I can go with 1.5" to the vacuum generator, then 1" from the vacuum generator to the holding tank.......or can I? Without a macerator that would seem to lend itself to potential clogging issues.

Do I need to upgrade the holding tank as well?

What is the best way to approach this upgrade??

I would tend to replace the 1” barb on the holding tank with 1.5”

The challenge is that the hole in the holding tank might be threaded to 1” NPT which will cause the same reduction you are trying to avoid. Hopefully it is threaded 1.5”.

Before I replaced the holding tank (unless it was super accessible) I would probably re-think the vaccuflush idea and go with a macerating head like the Raritan Sea Era

I have Vaccuflush and like them, but I am not in love with them either. I have had the Raritan Sea Era macerating heads in other boats and found them to be super reliable.

Your post is lacking in pertinent detail. You don't indicate how the connection is made to the holding tank. Yes, I get that it's a 1" barb, but how's it connect to the tank? Top, side, threaded adapter, glassed in stub? What material is the tank constructed of? Give generalized information, receive generalized replies.


Depending on the tank construction, it may be a simple matter to connect to the tank using a universal tank adapter, or perhaps re-using the existing if it's suitable. In any case, run full size per the manufacturer's recommended install process.


Trying to re-use existing piping is only going to add problems to your conversion. Don't be concerned with how to adapt, get rid of the old stuff and treat it as a new install. You'll probably need new 1-1/2" hose from toilet to vac generator, also from generator to tank. Use the good hose, do it once.

Shrew said:

I'm in the process of upgrading my Jabsco electric flush head to a vacuflush.

The discharge on the electric flush is 1". The discharge on the vacuflush in 1.5". This presents what appears to be a problem on the holding tank side.

I need a 1.5" barb on the holding tank where the 1" is located now.

Keeping the same size thread and going with a larger barb or dealing with reducers looks like it might create a bottleneck.

Do I need to upgrade the holding tank as well?

Click to expand...

Depending on which Jabsco electric you have, I'd have thought you might be taking an unnecessarily complicated step backwards by going to VacuFlush.

But that said...

Ideally, Peggie will chime in

And in the meantime, you could use a Uniseal to route a new 1.5" hose to the top of the holding tank -- and you can just cap off the existing 1" inlet barb if you do that. If the 1" inlet barb isn't actually 1.5" already, with a smaller fitting screwed into it. (1.5" is a pretty common inlet/outlet size for holding tanks; usually only the vent fittings are smaller, I think.)

FWIW, the discharge on our Jabsco electric is 1" but it's almost immediately stepped up to 1.5" just after the loop -- and using the Jabsco converter part -- for the 1.5" hose that makes the run to our holding tank.

-Chris

Gotta agree with the others about rethinking the switch to Vacuflush. Many of us with Vacuflush are considering upgrading to an electric macerating head. Seems like you're taking a step back.

I would not put in a Vacuflush but rather a Raritan Marine Elegance. Much less complicated and no vacuum generator, etc. i just ordered a Marine Elegance yesterday, $720 and I will be done. It will use the 1” discharge hose with a simple adapter. You never see threads about problems with a Marine Elegance but you see threads all the time about problems with a Vacuflush. Ask Peggie for advise as to which she would install if it were her boat...

The Raritan Marine Elegance gets lots of love everywhere... while the Jabsco 37045 Quiet Flush, not so much. I've not experienced an ME first-hand so can't compare head to head (so to speak), but our Jabsco electric macerating QF works pretty well.

If the QF would be an upgrade for OP from a different Jabsco electric (37010?) and if it would mount exactly the same as the original unit, that could very much simplify the whole upgrade process.

-Chris

Shrew said:

I'm in the process of upgrading my Jabsco electric flush head to a vacuflush.

The discharge on the electric flush is 1". The discharge on the vacuflush in 1.5". This presents what appears to be a problem on the holding tank side.

I need a 1.5" barb on the holding tank where the 1" is located now.

Keeping the same size thread and going with a larger barb or dealing with reducers looks like it might create a bottleneck.

I doubt I can go with 1.5" to the vacuum generator, then 1" from the vacuum generator to the holding tank.......or can I? Without a macerator that would seem to lend itself to potential clogging issues.

Do I need to upgrade the holding tank as well?

What is the best way to approach this upgrade??

Click to expand...

Why on earth would you think going back to 1980s technology that is noisy and high maintenance would be an "upgrade"?! Find a dock neighbor with a modern electric fresh water flush (Tecma, Headhunter or similar) who will allow you to do a little testing....I think you will be impressed.

It's a poly tank with the inlet on the top. It looks like it's threaded, though I didn't measure it. I want to moving to vacuflush for a few reasons.

1) Holding tank capacity: The electric flush uses raw water and far too much of it. I have a 30 gallon holding tank that I need to empty more frequently than I would like.

2) Odor: The electric flush uses raw water. I only use the boat on weekends. The saltwater leaves an odor in the head after baking in the heat for a week.

3) Noise: The electric flush is loud

I'm surprised moving to a vacuflush is considered a move backwards. I really haven't seen many new boats sold with electric flush in recent years.

The platform the head is located on has limited space, as a result, I am limited in the models I can install.

From my experience the Jabsco Quiet Flush isn’t. The Raritan ME is pretty quiet and part prices aren’t stratospheric either. Before you lock yourself into Vacuflush price out the spare parts. They control the distribution so the prices stay high.

Ask Peggie about how much water Vacuflush actually use, not their sales pitch. The Marine Elegance can be fresh water flush if you choose that setup. I just ordered one yesterday for our current boat. We put one in a previous boat and I didn’t think it was loud. I think that the ME will not use any more water than a Vacuflush and the ME can use 1” discharge so you can flush it completely with less water.

OK I'm definitely listening. I'm surprised at the consistency of the replies leaning towards electric.

I'm obviously still open to thoughts either way. My concern with going to a freshwater electric flush was increased usage of the freshwater and I still have the flush capacity issue.

I'll crunch some numbers on flush volume. I admit I am going by marketing fluff.

Shrew said:

My concern with going to a freshwater electric flush was increased usage of the freshwater....

Click to expand...

Full disclosure....I have 2 x 60 gallon FW tanks and I use the boat on weekends and up to 2 weeks at a time on vacation. Fresh Water consumption is much, much lower on my list of concerns.

As far as consumption...

The vaccuflush can flush pee and use very little water.

But... So can the modern electric heads.

The challenge with this is that you need to run water through the hoses along with the pee to avoid a buildup that occurs.

Poop wise the vaccuflush will empty the bowel pretty well with one flush as long as you add water to the bowel before hand.

That said, you really want the poop to not stay in the hoses so we always double flush.

I am thinking that with a modern electric fresh water head you will get the same water usage as the vaccuflush.

Now lets think maintenance. The vaccuflush will require occasional maintenance like anything else. Basically every couple years you will need to replace the duckbills. Other than that the only thing you do is break-fix, and they are pretty reliable. I have had zero break-fix issues in several years of use.

In order to maintain the vaccuflush you will need to be able to get to it. That is not a vaccuflush issue, that is a installation issue, but it is a concern. They are EASY to work on IF you can get to them.

A modern electric head is designed to be maintained while mounted. That solves some installation challenges as you do not need to figure out an accessible space.

Something else to consider is the toilets themselves. The vaccuflush heads are a down discharge, like a house toilet. They might make an adapter kit, but the ones I have seen are down discharge. A modern electric head can go either downward for the discharge, or backwards. Again, not a problem with Vaccuflush, but a consideration all the same.

A couple of points;

one, what does a complete new Vacuflush system cost? I don’t know. I would compare that to a new Marine Elegance. I just bought one for $739.

Two, people that have Vacuflush systems say they are no more maintenance than a ME. Ok, users that are good with the search function see how many threads there are on Vacuflush maintenance and how many there are on ME. I personally have not seen any on the ME but there is almost always a thread ongoing on the Vacuflush. Maybe that isn’t indicative of anything but pure and simple the Vacuflush system, note I say system, are more complex than a ME toilet, note I don’t say system. If I do have a problem with a ME head, I know it is right there inside the head unless I clogged the discharge hose. If I have a problem with a Vacuflush, first I have to find out where the problem is, in the head, the vacuum generator or the rest of the system. Why would you want something that much more complex?

Comodave said:

A couple of points;

one, what does a complete new Vacuflush system cost? I don’t know. I would compare that to a new Marine Elegance. I just bought one for $739.

Two, people that have Vacuflush systems say they are no more maintenance than a ME. Ok, users that are good with the search function see how many threads there are on Vacuflush maintenance and how many there are on ME. I personally have not seen any on the ME but there is almost always a thread ongoing on the Vacuflush. Maybe that isn’t indicative of anything but pure and simple the Vacuflush system, note I say system, are more complex than a ME toilet, note I don’t say system. If I do have a problem with a ME head, I know it is right there inside the head unless I clogged the discharge hose. If I have a problem with a Vacuflush, first I have to find out where the problem is, in the head, the vacuum generator or the rest of the system. Why would you want something that much more complex?

Click to expand...

OK, as far as I am concerned Everything Raritan makes is TOP quality. I am a Huge fan.

Vacuflush gets more complaints and threads because they have been out there for a very long time, and there is a HUGE installed customer base. As they age they have issues, and the threads I see are mostly folks that have no understanding of them, looking for knowledge, and are trying to fix something that has had no maintenance on sometimes for a decade, that they have no clue how it works.

As far as complexity yes I agree they are more complex. A electric macerating head is simple by comparison. That said, a vacuflush system is easy to work on, and easy to understand once you look at it.

All that said... If I were starting fresh I would not have vacuflush, I would choose one of the Raritan macerating toilets and go about my happy life.

I like my Vacuflushes and might buy them again if I were building a new boat. To me, they're incredibly simple to work on and I don't have to worry about a macerator dying (I can change the electric motor without disturbing the plumbing and replacing the diaphragm plunger is part of my 5 year maintenance).

Regarding going from 1.5" to 1", there is a hose barb union that does that with a smooth bore. Peggy quoted someone who described the vacuum pump as a "Turd masher". She could better qualify if this reduced the size to a manageable level for 1" pipe.

Ted

Comodave said:

I would not put in a Vacuflush but rather a Raritan Marine Elegance. Much less complicated and no vacuum generator, etc. i just ordered a Marine Elegance yesterday, $720 and I will be done. It will use the 1” discharge hose with a simple adapter. You never see threads about problems with a Marine Elegance but you see threads all the time about problems with a Vacuflush. Ask Peggie for advise as to which she would install if it were her boat...

Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Vacuflush is a step down, not up. There is a poster hete named vacutech. There are no Marine Elegance techs. Simply not needed.

catalinajack said:

Agree 100%. Vacuflush is a step down, not up. There is a poster hete named vacutech. There are no Marine Elegance techs. Simply not needed.

Click to expand...

That's true, and maybe when Marine Elegance has reached 10% of the units sold in the marine and RV industry by Vacuflush, someone will.

Ted

I can't comment on VF as an owner....
But I have helped a dockmate work on his relatively new boat a few times. From what I've seen I would not consider converting my macerator to a VF even if someone gave it to me. Vacuum is pretty finicky and there are just too many potential places for me. Several slip fits for vacuum is not a robust design IMO.
I have had a couple nscersting toilets in last 2 boats and never s major problem. I have replaced the maintenance kit parts, impeller, seals etc but that's relatively inexpensive, infrequent and easy to do.
Just another opinion but it seems I'm not alone.

I still wonder what a Vacuflush system costs. I have not bought one and I really would like to find out what they cost. Does anyone know?

It's a poly tank with the inlet on the top. It looks like it's threaded, though I didn't measure it.

A fairly easy job to install a new 1. 5" inlet ftting in the tank using a Uniseal UNISEAL

I want to moving to vacuflush for a few reasons.
1) Holding tank capacity: The electric flush uses raw water and far too much of it. I have a 30 gallon holding tank that I need to empty more frequently than I would like.

2) Odor: The electric flush uses raw water. I only use the boat on weekends. The saltwater leaves an odor in the head after baking in the heat for a week.

3) Noise: The electric flush is loud

You're assuming that all electric macerating toilets are alike. Most are available in both sea water and pressurized flush versions. While all sea water toilets are noisier than those the use fresh water, some are a lot noisier than others. The Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf --the top rated electric toilet--is VERY quiet...in fact the quietest. It's designed to use pressurized fresh water. The optional "Smart Flush" panel provides 4 flush options that will actually allow you to use LESS water than the VacuFlush actually needs to prevent problems. And there are several others you might like.

I estimate that at least 75% of the toilet problems I've seen in the 30 years I've been a specialist in marine sanitation are problems with VacuFlush, and that at least 9o% of 'em are caused by owners putting too little water through 'em. It's the reason I wrote a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that describes how it works (an amazing number of owners think they know, but actually don't) and how much water it actually needs. I'll be glad to send it to you if you'll send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM). An earlier poster said it's 1980s technology...it's even older. It's changed so little except cosmetically since Mansfield Plumbing introduced it in 1978 (they spun off their entire marine toilet division to SeaLand Technology in 1984) that the same troubleshooting guide still works for all years, all models.

And btw...VacuFlush was the toilet on my last two boats and I was a distributor/dealer for nearly 10 years, so I'm intimately acquainted with it. If I were looking at used boats that already has one installed, it wouldn't be a deal breaker, but macerating electric toilet technology has changed so much in the last 20 years that I wouldn't spend my own money for another one.

Send me a PM...and I'll not only send you "VF 101" but I'll be glad to answer all your questions about it and every other toilet.

--Peggie

Listen to Peggy: I just removed my 2 vacuflush & replaced them with Marine Elegance - fresh water & love them. Very simple set-up and the space I gained by removing the vacuum generators makes any future service a breeze.
They have a 1"/1 1/2" adapter already installed-just have to trim off the 1" part if you want 1 1/2". Be sure to replace the hoses even if you keep the same ID!

Just finishing our 1st year with a Raritan electric fresh water flush. Never knew that a marine toilet could be so......nice? Was in the boat when we acquired it. Everything is macerated before entering the hose which is a plus. Pump outs are easy. We had some toilet paper that wouldn’t absorb water but the macerator “ate” it. To this day I don’t know what model as I haven’t found any markings. But very very satisfied.

Shrew said:

It's a poly tank with the inlet on the top. It looks like it's threaded, though I didn't measure it. I want to moving to vacuflush for a few reasons.

1) Holding tank capacity: The electric flush uses raw water and far too much of it. I have a 30 gallon holding tank that I need to empty more frequently than I would like.

2) Odor: The electric flush uses raw water. I only use the boat on weekends. The saltwater leaves an odor in the head after baking in the heat for a week.

3) Noise: The electric flush is loud

I'm surprised moving to a vacuflush is considered a move backwards. I really haven't seen many new boats sold with electric flush in recent years.

The platform the head is located on has limited space, as a result, I am limited in the models I can install.

Click to expand...

As Peggie said, an electric freshwater toilet can address all these. The amount of water you use can vary all the way down to "hardly any" (via the "flush" control panel), fresh water flush doesn't have the same kind of odor issues as would raw water, and there's only one pump action going on (macerate/discharge) rather than two (bringing in raw water being the second).

One issue might be about your toilet discharge hose, and how that runs to the holding tank. If it's a downhill run, after waste zooms up and over the first loop just after the joker valve, then that hose will mostly drain itself with each flush and you'd probably not have to worry too much about permeation.

OTOH, if you've got a bit of uphill in it somewhere, any "belly" in that line might mean more rigorous flushing (so standing waste in the hose is actually just fresh flush water) and maybe eventually it'll need replacement due to permeation. You could address this with a PVC run instead of flexible hose. Or you could just plan on replacing that one hose, maybe 5/8/10/15?? years down the pike.

But Peggie says Raritan's SaniFlex has never permeated; I'm gonna test that. Actually, I at first thought to make that run on our boat (almost all "belly") out of PVC, but it would be slightly complicated and I've not worked with PVC before... so I chose to defer that learning curve until after the SaniFlex test... in 5/8/10/15? years or so.

Comodave said:

From my experience the Jabsco Quiet Flush isn’t. The Raritan ME is pretty quiet and part prices aren’t stratospheric either. Before you lock yourself into Vacuflush price out the spare parts. They control the distribution so the prices stay high.

Click to expand...

Our QF got much louder when the macerator/pump assembly seals started to fail... at about the 10-12 year mark, IIRC. Replacing the macerator/pump motor assembly, relatively inexpensive, 10 minute change, brought the noise level back down.

Given I've not heard a Marine Elegance, I can't really compare... but I'd guess IF the QF toilet base is a direct replacement for Shrew's existing Jabsco raw water model, it'd MAYBE be a much easier swap than maybe switching to the ME. That's really the only reason I mention it as an option, given how much everyone loves the MEs.

Our QF is MUCH quieter than the VacuFlush we had in our previous boat!

-Chris

Our two V Flush units needed new seats after 15 years due to fading paint. That and a water valve replacement has been it for unusual problems.

Poor install and improper toilet training will do in any marine toilet. Following Peggy's advice seems logical for a new unit. But I'm not going to rip out two perfectly fine VF units to follow the crowd. Nor would I add them new.

I am not suggesting that anyone rip out a working Vacuflush but I am suggesting no one install a new system. Save some money and go with a better system, Marine Elegance.

Comodave said:

I am not suggesting that anyone rip out a working Vacuflush but I am suggesting no one install a new system. Save some money and go with a better system, Marine Elegance.

Click to expand...

A far bigger market than boats, are RVs. Price point is a big deal. To this day, VF are very common if not the choice, not sure why if cost a major decider. Maybe buy in volume?

Comodave said:

I still wonder what a Vacuflush system costs. I have not bought one and I really would like to find out what they cost. Does anyone know?

Click to expand...

The vacuum generator was around $1,600.00
The 140 series model from Dometic was around $700.00

Boat show deals could be had for 10% off and a $300 rebate if bought from a dealer at the show.

I have an issue with limited space on the platform where the head in located. I'm going to measure to see if I can fit a Raritan Marine Elegance with the angled back. Otherwise I'm looking at the "Raritan SeaEra QC Toilet".

https://www.defender.com/product.js...-toilet&path=-1|51|2234284|2234291&id=4153914

It can fill ONLY(with momentary ON to control volume) and flush ONLY (this is a big deal for a couple of beer drinkers), or fill and flush simultaneously.

It can use BOTH fresh and raw water, and you can flip a switch to choose which one. The footprint looks identical to the Jabsco electric flush I have installed now and it takes 1" hose.

I'm not sure how the "SeaEra QC" compares to the "Marine Elegance" model.


(The scope of this thread sure took an unexpected turn).

The holding tanks on most RVs are directly below the toilet or if offset, it's still where it can be a straight "shot" from the bowl to the tank. Are you sure it's VF toilets on RVs and not Dometic (formerly SeaLand) direct drop gravity toilets that use the same bowl?


--Peggie