sanitation hoses

If Marine Sanitation installed it, they're a SeaLand/Dometic distributor/dealer...so I'd bet real money that the hose was SeaLand "OdorSafe," for which SeaLand charges an arm and a leg and claims is the most odor resistant hose on the planet...but definitely isn't! I've been on at least half a dozen boats on which it had failed, and heard about many more. It may be the only hose Marine Sanitation sells...if so, take your business to a dealer who carries Trident.

Peggy, have you seen the Trident 102 hose? It seems to be a white version of 101. I know a lot of people want to use white hose when it is visible near the toilet.

The black hose is the Trident 101, the white version is the 102.*

Trident 101 and 102 are supposed to be identical except for color...and they're both equally permeation resistant. However, I rarely recommend 102 for a couple of reasons:

1. the chemical process used to make the outer white "shell" outgasses a very unpleasant and sometimes quite strong chemical odor when new that can last quite a while...and 2. It's only been available in white for a few years...it's SUPPOSED to be the same as 101...and so far no reported odor permeation failures, only complaints about the chemical odor, but it doesn't have the track record that 101 has yet. IMO that makes 101 the better choice, at least for now.

Those who think that only white will do can build a nice little painted wood cover to put over the short piece of hose that's visible in the head.

HeadMistress wrote:
If Marine Sanitation installed it, they're a SeaLand/Dometic distributor/dealer...so I'd bet real money that the hose was SeaLand "OdorSafe," for which SeaLand charges an arm and a leg and claims is the most odor resistant hose on the planet...but definitely isn't!

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*No, Marine Sanitation didn't install it or sell it to us and I have no idea at this point if they carry Trident or not.* And now that I see it in print you are correct, it was SeaLand "OdorSafe."* When we get to the point this summer of reworking our aft toilet plumbing run we'll for sure look into the Trident 101.* Thanks again.

I've got some 102 in my store. I'll go give it the sniff test for outgassing today and report back.

I have some 101 in my shop. It's for sale. See classifieds.....

I had a new roll of Trident 102 still wrapped in plastic from the factory. I poked a hole in the plastic wrap and took a sniff. There was a slight rubber smell but it wasn't strong nor was it unplesant. I sniffed a piece of regular black hose and didn't smell anything. The black hose was not still wrapped and had been exposed to air for some time.

I'll start with the easiest fix first, the muriatic acid, but what is the procedure. Do I just pour it in the open end of the hose or since I was installing new y-valve when I found the problem, put it back together and pour it in the toilet, pump and repeat.

Thanks for the help

The Sealand hose used to be good but when Dometic bought them they changed the formulation or supplier and the result is it's not as good anymore. Typical.

I have some of that Sealand hose from ~2000 and bought some extra and it still works well and yes I do check it.

Slowboat

Why not go with fresh water* flush once you get your system cleaned out? Your scale issues*should go away.

sunchaser wrote:
Slowboat

Why not go with fresh water* flush once you get your system cleaned out? Your scale issues*should go away.

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*

That would mean replacing the toilet with one that's designed to use pressurized flush water...'cuz you can't just tap the intake hose on a sea water toilet into a cold water line without risk of e-coli contamination of the fresh water supply, damage to the toilet, or both...it's something that every toilet mfr specifically warns against in their installation instructions.

*A weekly dose of undiluted distilled white vinegar flushed through the lines will prevent new buildup and is a LOT cheaper!

I wondered about contamination, the guy across the dock has switched to fresh water with a new toilet but he didn't mention any concerns about it, I'll ask him when I see him next. I like the maintaining what I have with lower cost idea, thanks for all responses.

HeadMistress wrote:
.................*you can't just tap the intake hose on a sea water toilet into a cold water line without risk of e-coli contamination of the fresh water supply, damage to the toilet, or both...it's something that every toilet mfr specifically warns against in their installation instructions.

It amazes me how many boaters on boating forums think a simple check valve will prevent cross contamination of their boat's potable water supply.

They've done it and haven't gotten sick (yet) so they think it's a perfect solution.

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Ron

What brand of head do you have on your Camano and how do you prevent cross contamination? How do you prevent cross contamination in your home?

sunchaser wrote:
Ron

What brand of head do you have on your Camano and how do you prevent cross contamination? How do you prevent cross contamination in your home?

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*In your home your toilet tank and bowl provide *"atmospheric breaks" between your city water supply and septic system.

Most people* that I know that are converting over to fresh water for their heads*don't plumb into the manual pump...they plumb into the bowl flush hose and pull that off the pump.

Can't say how many have done it that way but I haven't heard any negative feedback through the years.

sunchaser wrote:
Ron

What brand of head do you have on your Camano and how do you prevent cross contamination? How do you prevent cross contamination in your home?

I have a Jabsco raw water flush head in my boat.* There is no connection to the potable water suystem in the boat and no chance of cross contamination.

I have a backflow preventer on my home's irrigation system.* It was installed according to code and must be tested and recertified by a licensed backflow preventer specialist every year.* The certification goes to the city water company which will shut off water to my house if I fail to have it certified.

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*

Conrad wrote:sunchaser wrote:
Ron

What brand of head do you have on your Camano and how do you prevent cross contamination? How do you prevent cross contamination in your home?

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*In your home your toilet tank and bowl provide *"atmospheric breaks" between your city water supply and septic system.

Yes they do.* And all fixtures are designed to not reach the water level that might be in a sink or tub.

Government health officials take this risk seriously because people can become very ill or even die by ingesting raw sewage, even if diluted.* Many of the illness outbreaks traced to eating raw vegetables have turned out to be from pickers reliving themselves in the fields where these vegtables are growing.

*

psneeld wrote:
Most people* that I know that are converting over to fresh water for their heads*don't plumb into the manual pump...they plumb into the bowl flush hose and pull that off the pump.

Can't say how many have done it that way but I haven't heard any negative feedback through the years.

Perhaps because they are no longer around to talk about it?

Seriously, it's an unecessary and serious risk you are posing for you, your family, and your friends.* Do not attempt it even if you know someone who has and is not dead yet.

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*

rwidman wrote:psneeld wrote:
Most people* that I know that are converting over to fresh water for their heads*don't plumb into the manual pump...they plumb into the bowl flush hose and pull that off the pump.

Can't say how many have done it that way but I haven't heard any negative feedback through the years.

Perhaps because they are no longer around to talk about it?

Seriously, it's an unecessary and serious risk you are posing for you, your family, and your friends.* Do not attempt it even if you know someone who has and is not dead yet.

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*

*As a certified professional Back Flow*Prevention*Tester and Cross Connection Control specialist, I agree completely with your statements Ron. I run across illegal cross connections constantly and folks think I am the bad guy. They have no concept of how dangerous these conditions are.

Basic check valves are not approved cross conection control devices and will not protect your potable water supply from contamination.

Usually a vacume breaker is required.

Our KISS solution is to use the shower telephone sprayer to use an aimed shot at skid marks .

Least water used,

rwidman wrote:psneeld wrote:
Most people* that I know that are converting over to fresh water for their heads*don't plumb into the manual pump...they plumb into the bowl flush hose and pull that off the pump.

Can't say how many have done it that way but I haven't heard any negative feedback through the years.

Perhaps because they are no longer around to talk about it?

Seriously, it's an unecessary and serious risk you are posing for you, your family, and your friends.* Do not attempt it even if you know someone who has and is not dead yet.

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*

*Why is this different than any RV toilet?* I would say marine also but haven't looked up a diadram yet but believe that vacuflush systems aare the same way.* Foot pedal to let water in through a valve and down to evacuate.* If that's true then converting a toilet should present NO greater contamination than regular ones if you don't connect the fresh water to the pump area.

There is no connection between the 2 piping systems.* There is just a valve where the fresh water comes into the top of the bowl.*

I don't think you understand where people are connecting the fresh water...just at the flush entrance but disconnected from the pump.



-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 27th of March 2012 05:11:54 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 27th of March 2012 05:12:17 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 27th of March 2012 05:12:52 AM

Ron and CP - If the boat head (Tecma, Raritan, Sealand etc) is connected to fresh water per the manufacturers drawings is that OK or is there another caveat they likely miss?

Scott - RVers must be a tougher lot.

Per Peggy's advice, routine cleaning/bleaching of your fresh water system is good insurance against critters and smells. There is some talk that the dreaded cruise ship noro virus lurks in the on-board tap water, so as in Mexico, don't drink the water. For those who cruise off shore and use water makers, keeping tap water healthy via a secondary system is common. No matter how good your head cross contamination setup, be very careful about keeping your tap water pure - I dose my tanks routinely with bleach ala*a water treatment plant.

sunchaser wrote:
Ron and CP - If the boat head (Tecma, Raritan, Sealand etc) is connected to fresh water per the manufacturers drawings is that OK or is there another caveat they likely miss?

Scott - RVers must be a tougher lot.

Per Peggy's advice, routine cleaning/bleaching of your fresh water system is good insurance against critters and smells. There is some talk that the dreaded cruise ship noro virus lurks in the on-board tap water, so as in Mexico, don't drink the water. For those who cruise off shore and use water makers, keeping tap water healthy via a secondary system is common. No matter how good your head cross contamination setup, be very careful about keeping your tap water pure - I dose my tanks routinely with bleach ala*a water treatment plant.

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After looking over the drawings...there's no difference.

If having your fresh water system hooked to a toilet is a no-no...we are all in trouble as they all are in some way unless you cup/shower feed it..

You just shouldn't have it hooked to*the multi-use pump.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 27th of March 2012 09:15:48 AM

I'm not sure why this seems to be so hard to understand. :confuse:
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Marine, RV, and residential or commercial heads/toilets that are designed to be connected to a potable water system have been designed specifically so that cross contamination is not possible.* They have been tested and approved by various agencies for such use.

Raw water flush marine heads are designed differently and cannot be*connected directly to a potable water system without risk of cross contamination.* As mentioned by*CPseudonym, a simple check valve in the fill line does not eliminate this risk.

Yes, it is perfectly safe to use your boat's shower wand to flush a raw water head as long as it doesn't reach the bowl.* I have personally done this many times.* You can also fill a container from the potable water system and pour it into the head for flushing.

Now just think about this - Why is it that no head manufacturer or third party vendor offers a kit to convert raw water heads to fresh water heads?* Perhaps there's a good reason?* You think?

*


-- Edited by rwidman on Tuesday 27th of March 2012 10:09:19 AM

sunchaser wrote:
Ron and CP - If the boat head (Tecma, Raritan, Sealand etc) is connected to fresh water per the manufacturers drawings is that OK or is there another caveat they likely miss?

I think I covered this, but yes, a head designed and approved for fresh water flush and installed according to the manufacturer's instructions is safe to use.* They haven't missed anything.

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*

psneeld wrote:
If having your fresh water system hooked to a toilet is a no-no...we are all in trouble as they all are in some way unless you cup/shower feed it..

Read my posts again.* I've tried my best to explain it.* Read**CPseudonym's and Peggie's posts as well.* I don't just make this stuff up.

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*


-- Edited by rwidman on Tuesday 27th of March 2012 10:14:09 AM

psneeld wrote:Why is this different than any RV toilet?* I would say marine also but haven't looked up a diadram yet but believe that vacuflush systems aare the same way.* Foot pedal to let water in through a valve and down to evacuate.*

Click to expand...

*A Vac u flush has a siphon break at the top of the bowl behind the seat.* So when you are bouncing around the water in the bowl that runs up to the ring and back into the tube can not get back to the down stream side of the valve you mention.* Thus it is impossible to make contact with the fresh water inlet. So no contamination is possible.

JD wrote:psneeld wrote:Why is this different than any RV toilet?* I would say marine also but haven't looked up a diadram yet but believe that vacuflush systems aare the same way.* Foot pedal to let water in through a valve and down to evacuate.*

Click to expand...

*A Vac u flush has a siphon break at the top of the bowl behind the seat.* So when you are bouncing around the water in the bowl that runs up to the ring and back into the tube can not get back to the down stream side of the valve you mention.* Thus it is impossible to make contact with the fresh water inlet. So no contamination is possible.

*Thank you...a reasonable answer.* So all I have to do is install a vacuum breaker and I'm good to go because beyond that... no difference and it's no big deal to modify and GREATLY improve some systems than what is out there.