When is it too old?

High ya everyone, new guy here. I've been on Yacht World for awhile and when I look at Hatteras, Viking, Chris Craft there are listings for hulls that can go back to the 60's or further. So my question is when is it to old? I know the older a boat the more questions to ask and really go over the boat with the surveyors. I've seen older boats that could be diamonds in the rough...just as long as they don't turn into a money pit. What do y'all think?

When it’s not in good condition.
When parts for equipment is no longer available.
And if your extremely style conscious .. not your style.
When the cost of repair exceeds the value otherwise.

Condition condition condition

I'll agree with Willy. It's too old when it's worn out beyond reasonable repair or restoration or when you'd have to replace basically everything due to unavailable parts.

What Eric said. My 76 Viking is built like a tank. For the most part, parts are not an issue.

I'm lucky in that Viking is still family owned, takes a real interest in their legacy boats, and must be a great place to work - up until a few years ago, I could call New Gretna and talk to the project manager who built my boat.

"Money pit" ia a relative term. I've spent quite a few bucks fixing/upgrading, although I do the grunt work myself. On the other hand, I bought her 11 years ago for the price of a tricked out pickup truck.The last time I looked, a new 43' Viking cost north of $1.3. My oldie floats as well as the new ones.

I will say that I probably derive as much enjoyment from working on her as I do running her. If you're going to "have" work done rather than DIY, that should factor into the fiscal consideration.

Irrespective of age, a recreational boat is a depreciating asset. My theory is that you buy a an old boat in "good" condition with the depreciation wrung out of it, spend a few bucks, and you're on the water the same as the big buck guys.

One big caveat, Aboat - not knowing your experience level and expertise - unless you really know what you're doing, I wouldn't advise considering a wooden boat.

Personally, I would not get involved with a fiberglass boat built before the early 70's. From the mid 70's they were built like tanks, way more glass than they really needed. Before that time the builders really didn't understand a lot about glass.

Wood, on the other hand, I would easily consider boats build by quality manufacturers clear back to the early 60's. With the proviso that they had been totally restored or really, really kept up on with the maintenance, wood and mechanical. Lots of gassers in the early 60's which are probably ready to become liabilities unless they have been changed out or recently rebuilt.

The earlier glass boats are disappearing. Price is generally right but get a survey.

pete

Metal,including aluminum, I think mostly depends on fresh or salt water and regardless of age, I would have the metal tested.

Concrete ? Some nice heavy sailboats out there. Very, very cheap. It just does not hold its value, even nearly new.

I would not be afraid of of a glass boat from the 70s or even the 60s if it surveyed well. The possible problems are insurance and financing if needed. Many financial institutions will not finance something that old and insurance may be more difficult to get. Check on both before you make an offer.

Speaking for Hatteras and Viking, you see a lot of very nice old ones because they are 1) very well designed and built boats and 2) they are still supported by the makers. I can speak to Hatteras specifically that their parts department spin-off, Sam's Marine, is an invaluable resource of knowledge and solutions. You register your hull number with them and they will know exactly what your boat came equipped with. Hatteras can send you a detailed "as built" summary for your specific boat as it left the factory, as well as sell you comprehensive owners manuals and schematics from microfiche. So it easy for an owner to keep a boat in as pristine condition as their bank account will allow.

After a few years, for the most part, it depends on how previous owners took care of it or didn't. I have seen several <10 year old boats that aren't worth 25% of regular market value because owners have ruined engines due to driving habits and lack of maintenance, did no exterior maintenance, and basically treated the interior like white trash in a trailer park. Lots of great value in old boat that were well maintained. I guess the only thing that would stop me from buying a cherry from before the '80s would be if I couldn't at least get liability insurance.

Ted

Lots of good advice here.

Boat ageism is rampant, and I understand why it happens. But there are usually ways around it.

I just arrived in Toronto aboard my 1978 boat and am seeking a liveaboard slip for the winter. I called one marina, and all seemed fine until the question on my boat age. Then the conversation stopped. No boats from the seventies allowed. No exceptions.

I approached the next marina - the one I really wanted to stay in - by boat. Drove deep into the marina and docked in front of the harbourmaster's office. Came out with an offer of a slip. The boat age never came up

old agey boaty

My last 2 boats were early eighties built. Each one took years to fix the deteriorated and outmoded stuff. It would have been much better to buy 10 years newer. I would have been much ahead both in time and money.

One thing I am finding out is that insurance companies are starting to refuse insuring boats older than 27 years. It can still be done, but coverage is getting harder to find.

Ours is 32 years old and Boat/US doesn’t have any problems so far...

The earliest US boats were built not like tanks , but like radar domes. Many many layers of cloth to get to the thickness desired.

Glass and resin were cheap , 17c a pound for resin , so until the 6 day war thick was no problem.

Thick is heavy but on a displacement hull almost meaningless , an extra ton of hull should only cost 1/5 of a GPH , no big deal.

After the oil crisis resin shot up to about 75c a pound , and blisters became common.

A really old boat should be stiff enough to almost never flex , the key on any GRP boat to a long life.

My boat was built in 1936. That is one of the reasons I bought it. I have had no problem insuring it with an agreed value policy.

I don't necessarily use age in years as a limiter; I tend to draw the line at specific features I'd like to avoid (e.g., 32V DC systems, ladders instead of stairs).

Not that those features are unworkable, just not for us (ladders) or I just don't want to fool with it (32V).

-Chris

Our NT is an 86 and we have it insured thru the same insurer as our homes.

My '78 CHB is 41 and insured with Safeco.

1980 Tollycraft and still have it insured with Chubb. Probably too expensive of an insurer at this point, but they have a really good policy, really good to deal with the one time I had to file a claim and after 14 years, I just like to patronize somebody who proved themselves a good company to partner with all these years.

ranger42c said:

I don't necessarily use age in years as a limiter; I tend to draw the line at specific features I'd like to avoid (e.g., 32V DC systems, ladders instead of stairs).

Not that those features are unworkable, just not for us (ladders) or I just don't want to fool with it (32V).

-Chris

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32V is no big deal at all. Having owned an old Hatteras, I can assure you of that.

Boat age depends on how fussy you are, the money you want to spend, the repairs you're willing to make, who you want to impress, where & how you want to use the boat, and what you expect for resale.
I have a 1942 wood boat I liveaboard in the PNW. I'm in my 70s, so except for tenders, it's my last boat. I have no problem getting insurance. I have a private dock and in the rare instance I stay at a marina, I've never been asked for my insurance or questioned about the boat age. In fact, I've been approached by a couple marinas that would like to have an 83' boat at their marina (for too much money). My only concern about resale is the boat lasts as long as I do. If the value is zero at my end time, I don't care.

caltexflanc said:

Speaking for Hatteras and Viking, you see a lot of very nice old ones because they are 1) very well designed and built boats and 2) they are still supported by the makers. I can speak to Hatteras specifically that their parts department spin-off, Sam's Marine, is an invaluable resource of knowledge and solutions. You register your hull number with them and they will know exactly what your boat came equipped with. Hatteras can send you a detailed "as built" summary for your specific boat as it left the factory, as well as sell you comprehensive owners manuals and schematics from microfiche. So it easy for an owner to keep a boat in as pristine condition as their bank account will allow.

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The last Hatteras I surveyed was a 1982 53'. It had 12vdc, 24vdc, 32vdc, 120vac and 240vac systems along with two alternators on each engine, three battery chargers, two inverters, two generators and seven battery switches.

No one but a certified marine electrician or someone with a very fat cheque book should own a boat like this.

I am pretty good with electrical, but I wouldn’t want to touch that.

TDunn said:

My boat was built in 1936. That is one of the reasons I bought it. I have had no problem insuring it with an agreed value policy.

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Ours was built in 1926 and we also have no insurance issues.

Our boat is a '76 Canoe cove. Hull an inch thick of roving in places. It's in excellent shape, no problem with insurance so far, $900 CAD a year

Comodave said:

Ours is 32 years old and Boat/US doesn’t have any problems so far...

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Same here on my 1977. ~$400/yr in a covered CA Delta slip.

FF said:

The earliest US boats were built not like tanks , but like radar domes. Many many layers of cloth to get to the thickness desired.

Glass and resin were cheap , 17c a pound for resin , so until the 6 day war thick was no problem.

Thick is heavy but on a displacement hull almost meaningless , an extra ton of hull should only cost 1/5 of a GPH , no big deal.

After the oil crisis resin shot up to about 75c a pound , and blisters became common.

A really old boat should be stiff enough to almost never flex , the key on any GRP boat to a long life.

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That's a pretty broad condemnation of an entire generation of FG boats. Yes, some had problems but many others, like the Marshall Californians, Tollycraft and so many others, have aged very well in the passage of time.

Many of the earliest USA made FG hulls were vastly overbuilt due to uncertainty about long-term strength. Such generalizations commonly fall short.

boatpoker said:

The last Hatteras I surveyed was a 1982 53'. It had 12vdc, 24vdc, 32vdc, 120vac and 240vac systems along with two alternators on each engine, three battery chargers, two inverters, two generators and seven battery switches.

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caltexflanc said:

32V is no big deal at all. Having owned an old Hatteras, I can assure you of that.

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Individually, I get that... but I'm just not interested in dealing with multiple DC and AC voltages to the extent possible. That said, I still occasionally look at Hatteras listings... for those with stairs instead of ladders.

-Chris

In my mind the real killer with the older Hatteras boats is the ladders to the bridge instead of stairs. And then there is the multiple voltages issue...

I always thought 1960s glass boats were overbuilt. And no "foreign" materials laminated among the glass.

"Many many layers of cloth to get to the thickness desired.'

The glass to resin ratio is higher with cloth than with layups of mat & roving.A good thing.

Same with all roving layups , just higher skills are required .

Comodave said:

In my mind the real killer with the older Hatteras boats is the ladders to the bridge instead of stairs. And then there is the multiple voltages issue...

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Yep, I could probably get over that voltage thing for stairs in the right boat...

-Chris