A Greater Loop?

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CaptTom

CaptTom

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When I first heard of the Great Loop, many years ago, I somehow got the impression it was a bit "greater."

In my mind, it went up the Gulf of St. Lawrence, through the Great Lakes, down through Chicago and all the way back around. In other words, no Hudson River "shortcut." Sort of a combination of the Great Loop as we know it today, plus the salt water portion of the Down East Loop.

Does this route have a name? Does anybody DO this loop?

Just curious.
 
Or the real Great Loop.....East Coast, Nothwest passage, Pacific, Panama canal, and back.


Of course the Great Great loop is around the horn.....


anything bigger is circumnavigation. :D
 
There is not a ton of resources for the recreational boater out there. That is a long run. That is more expedition than most recreational loopers are looking for.
 
Since I have already done the Rideau Canal, the Erie Canal, the Champlain Canal, Lake Champlain and the Ottawa River, and I rather enjoy the Maine Coast, Nova Scotia and PEI, I was thinking of going around the Gaspe Peninsula when I do my loop too. Was planning to learn some French first.


Edited to add:


I have no intention of doing the loop in a year or less. I plan to take my time.
 
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CaptTom said:
When I first heard of the Great Loop, many years ago, I somehow got the impression it was a bit "greater."

In my mind, it went up the Gulf of St. Lawrence, through the Great Lakes, down through Chicago and all the way back around. In other words, no Hudson River "shortcut." Sort of a combination of the Great Loop as we know it today, plus the salt water portion of the Down East Loop.

Does this route have a name? Does anybody DO this loop?

Just curious.
Click to expand...
If one looks at the history of doing the Great Loop, it started with smaller boats with much of the trip in more protected waters. Obviously, portions of the Great Lakes and the corner of the Gulf of Mexico had to be more carefully transited. Traveling up to and through the Gulf of St. Lawrence in late spring and early summer would likely have eliminated the vast majority of vessel that do the Loop. While many now take more than one year to do the Loop, in the beginning it was a one year trip. Hard to imagine doing much of the Northern part if you invest the time to cruise out and up to the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Ted
 
The "loop" up the Hudson (a destination in and of itself), Out the St. Lawrence, thence to the Maritimes (don't leave out Newfoundland if you can) is known as the Down East Loop. It's fantastic, with incomparable scenery, people and experiences. Many nice side trips. IMO, far far preferable than the so called Great Loop.
 
Wifey B: We've done both sort of, but separate. We did the traditional loop but went to Lake Ontario and to Toronto and through the Welland and hit all the Great Lakes. Then in a different year we went up the coast and around and down to Montreal, then back. Did the two different routes a couple of years apart. :)
 
psneeld said:
Or the real Great Loop.....East Coast, Nothwest passage, Pacific, Panama canal, and back.


Of course the Great Great loop is around the horn.....


anything bigger is circumnavigation. :D
Click to expand...

Matt Rutherford did the Really Great Loop (completely around N & S America) in a 27' sailboat. The Panama Canal short cut is for sissies.
 
"In my mind, it went up the Gulf of St. Lawrence,"


Lots of current on the nose for many miles, a 7K trawler might be too slow.
 
Mischief Managed said:
Since I have already done the Rideau Canal, the Erie Canal, the Champlain Canal, Lake Champlain and the Ottawa River, and I rather enjoy the Maine Coast, Nova Scotia and PEI, I was thinking of going around the Gaspe Peninsula when I do my loop too. Was planning to learn some French first.


Edited to add:


I have no intention of doing the loop in a year or less. I plan to take my time.
Click to expand...
Most of people speak English and French in the Canadian Atlantics, but for sure you will make Acadiens and Quebecois happy is you speak French :)

L
 
FF said:
"In my mind, it went up the Gulf of St. Lawrence,"


Lots of current on the nose for many miles, a 7K trawler might be too slow.
Click to expand...
Where current is the strongest playing with tides is necessary for a trawler. In Quebec City area the current is truly impressive, few weeks ago I have seen a sailboat trying to fight against current and tide, engine at WOT and all sails out, he was not able to go an inch forward and was even carried back by the current.

L
 
caltexflanc said:
The "loop" up the Hudson (a destination in and of itself), Out the St. Lawrence, thence to the Maritimes (don't leave out Newfoundland if you can) is known as the Down East Loop.
Click to expand...

I guess I should have mentioned I've already done the Down East Loop.

Mischief Managed said:
Since I have already done the Rideau Canal, the Erie Canal, the Champlain Canal, Lake Champlain and the Ottawa River, and I rather enjoy the Maine Coast, Nova Scotia and PEI, I was thinking of going around the Gaspe Peninsula when I do my loop too. Was planning to learn some French first.
Click to expand...

Yeah, knowing French would help. We did OK, but it was good to be able to communicate again once we left Quebec. Everyone was great, and frankly their English was better than my (almost non-existent) French, but it wasn't easy.

FF said:
Lots of current on the nose for many miles, a 7K trawler might be too slow.
Click to expand...

But below Montreal, it's also a reversing current. You can play the tides. Capt. Cheryl Barr's book A Complete Cruising Guide to the Down East Circle Route gives great information on this.

I guess it's the fact that this route goes offshore, in less protected waters and less populated areas, which drew me to it. I wished I'd been able to extend the trip to Newfoundland, but that just didn't work out. Maybe some day.

We did the whole thing in 45 days underway. Most were short (5-7 hour) days. We spent an equal time in port, usually waiting out weather or sometimes just sightseeing, for a total time of 90 days.

For the combined "Greater" loop, maybe if you started in Maine in the Spring, by mid-September you'd be heading South again. I've done almost all of it but the Great Lakes, and the stretch between Chicago and the Tenn-Tom. But I'll have to do some chart work to see if that timetable works.
 
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You definitely want to do the St. Lawrence west to east. Yes it reverses a bit like the Hudson, but downhill makes it all easier. Cheryl Barr's "The Downeast Circle Route" is a great planning tool. https://www.landfallnavigation.com/down-east-circle-route.html

Whoops, hadn't seen Captain Tom's note when I posted that, and I agree with it all. But here's the link to Cheryl's book.
 
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For the route going out the St. Lawrence and around, how long are the runs between fuel stops (for both gas and diesel)? Depending on what's available, that might limit what boats could make the run.
 
rslifkin said:
For the route going out the St. Lawrence and around, how long are the runs between fuel stops (for both gas and diesel)? Depending on what's available, that might limit what boats could make the run.
Click to expand...

As we went both ways, here were our distances between marinas.

Boston to Halifax Waterfront 380 nm.
Halifax to Strait of Canso Yacht Club 180 nm.
Strait of Canso to Summerside, PEI, 130 nm
Summerside to Gaspe Marina 180 nm.
Gaspe to Saint-Anne-Des-Monts 130 nm
Saint-Anne-Des-Monts to Tadoussac, PQ 140 nm
Tadoussac to Vieux Port de Quebec 110 nm
Vieux Port de Quebec to Marina Port d'Escale, Montreal 140 nm.

Returning we went Halifax to Portland which was also 380 nm. I'd have to look closer to see if there's fuel closer to Halifax.

As to French, we were fortunate to have two aboard who spoke fluent French. Our niece, 5 at the time, delighted in learning as much French as she could along the trip.
 
As long as that 380nm leg could be cut down (possibly by taking slightly less direct routing to enable an intermediate fuel stop), that seems pretty do-able fuel wise for most boats.

I know that leg is the only one you've listed that I'd have trouble with. Running up on plane at 17 - 18 kts and assuming I never draw the fuel tanks below 25%, I'm good for about 170nm between fuel stops. If I run like a trawler and keep it around 6.5 kts that 380nm leg is just within reach (keeping the same 25% reserve). Unfortunately gas engine efficiency falls off a cliff at light load, so even at 6.5 kts I'm only good for about 1.2 - 1.3 nmpg.
 
rslifkin said:
As long as that 380nm leg could be cut down (possibly by taking slightly less direct routing to enable an intermediate fuel stop), that seems pretty do-able fuel wise for most boats.

I know that leg is the only one you've listed that I'd have trouble with. Running up on plane at 17 - 18 kts and assuming I never draw the fuel tanks below 25%, I'm good for about 170nm between fuel stops. If I run like a trawler and keep it around 6.5 kts that 380nm leg is just within reach (keeping the same 25% reserve). Unfortunately gas engine efficiency falls off a cliff at light load, so even at 6.5 kts I'm only good for about 1.2 - 1.3 nmpg.
Click to expand...

As there is a lot of fishing south of Halifax and many docks, I'd feel certain fuel would be available between Halifax and Southwest Harbor. I don't see fuel as the challenge for most cruisers, but I do see the offshore runs as something many are not used to.
 
BandB said:
As there is a lot of fishing south of Halifax and many docks, I'd feel certain fuel would be available between Halifax and Southwest Harbor. I don't see fuel as the challenge for most cruisers, but I do see the offshore runs as something many are not used to.
Click to expand...

The offshore runs would definitely be an issue for many, particularly for the slower boats that can't cover a 100+ nm run within available daylight (especially if some is lost to a foggy morning).
 
Wifey B: For anyone doing the run around Nova Scotia and to the St. Lawrence, whichever direction, don't just stick to the water and anchorages and docks. Get a rental car or something at some of the stops. There's so much to see.

We had a "Shadow Van." Much like a shadow boat but on land, they met us at each stop. People switched out from being on the boat and driving the van. It's a Sprinter 11 passenger. We explored every inch of Nova Scotia using our boat as a home base in Halifax. Same on PEI and in NB and in Quebec.

More normal would be renting cars at various locations and exploring what is near. Don't just ride by, get out and see all you can. :dance:

The single greatest pleasure for me was having my niece, Aurora, along. As a child, I never went more than 50 miles from my home. As we travel she keeps up with where we are and where we're headed on charts and maps. Sure made her "show and tell" in kindergarten something special. Mostly, I love her learning that there's far more in the world than her hometown of Myrtle Beach and different cultures from South Florida to Montreal with the Bahamas tossed in. One of the focuses of our summer cruising will always be special experiences for her. She also had fun greeting some guests in the family's hotel in French. She doesn't know a lot but just enough for basic greetings. :D

I don't know if I saw the area through my eyes, somewhat adult, or her eyes, a child's view, but it was beautiful.
 
BandB said:
As there is a lot of fishing south of Halifax and many docks, I'd feel certain fuel would be available between Halifax and Southwest Harbor. I don't see fuel as the challenge for most cruisers, but I do see the offshore runs as something many are not used to.
Click to expand...

You can do that segment in hops. Lots of places to put in between Halifax and Yarmouth on the NS side and up to Bar Harbor or farther east on the US side.

I agree on the challenge of doing offshore runs. I think it's safe to say that there's a higher degree of seamanship, self sufficiency and safety equipment and procedures required to do this than to do the 'standard' loop.
 
Fuel is available at most ports, especially diesel.

The ports ARE few and far between, compared to some places, but they're never more than a short day apart. As I said, we did a lot of 4-6 hour days, at 7.5 knots, and even then we passed a lot of ports and pushed on to the next.

The Northeast quadrant of Nova Scotia is what I took to calling "the desolation coast." Dont' get me wrong, it's beautiful, and there are enough places to anchor and dock. It's just a long stretch and, at least when we were there, the geography (long fingers of rocky land and offshore ledges) caused confused seas the whole time. It got tiresome.

I kept a blog, if you want to follow along our 2016 Down East Loop trip. It's broken down by region; just click "first post" to start reading from that starting point.

It was a great trip. I can recommend it to anyone. I see no reason you'd need anything bigger than what you could live on. I've done Maine to Nova Scotia, and Maine to New Jersey, in my 28'er, for weeks on end.
 
BandB said:
As we went both ways, here were our distances between marinas.

Boston to Halifax Waterfront 380 nm.
Halifax to Strait of Canso Yacht Club 180 nm.
Strait of Canso to Summerside, PEI, 130 nm
Summerside to Gaspe Marina 180 nm.
Gaspe to Saint-Anne-Des-Monts 130 nm
Saint-Anne-Des-Monts to Tadoussac, PQ 140 nm
Tadoussac to Vieux Port de Quebec 110 nm
Vieux Port de Quebec to Marina Port d'Escale, Montreal 140 nm.

Returning we went Halifax to Portland which was also 380 nm. I'd have to look closer to see if there's fuel closer to Halifax.

As to French, we were fortunate to have two aboard who spoke fluent French. Our niece, 5 at the time, delighted in learning as much French as she could along the trip.
Click to expand...

If you really did that route, you missed a lot of primo cruising grounds and lovely places to visit. Was it a race of some kind, or did you make some intermediate stops? No Maine or Fundy? No Lunenburg? No Lipscomb or Yankee Cove? No Bras d'Or? No Charlottetown and environs? No Bouctouche or Miramichi? Just to name a very few on the east side of that "loop".
 
BandB said:
Wifey B: For anyone doing the run around Nova Scotia and to the St. Lawrence, whichever direction, don't just stick to the water and anchorages and docks. Get a rental car or something at some of the stops. There's so much to see.

We had a "Shadow Van." Much like a shadow boat but on land, they met us at each stop. People switched out from being on the boat and driving the van. It's a Sprinter 11 passenger. We explored every inch of Nova Scotia using our boat as a home base in Halifax. Same on PEI and in NB and in Quebec.

More normal would be renting cars at various locations and exploring what is near. Don't just ride by, get out and see all you can. :dance:

The single greatest pleasure for me was having my niece, Aurora, along. As a child, I never went more than 50 miles from my home. As we travel she keeps up with where we are and where we're headed on charts and maps. Sure made her "show and tell" in kindergarten something special. Mostly, I love her learning that there's far more in the world than her hometown of Myrtle Beach and different cultures from South Florida to Montreal with the Bahamas tossed in. One of the focuses of our summer cruising will always be special experiences for her. She also had fun greeting some guests in the family's hotel in French. She doesn't know a lot but just enough for basic greetings. :D

I don't know if I saw the area through my eyes, somewhat adult, or her eyes, a child's view, but it was beautiful.
Click to expand...
Please don't mind my comment but every inch look a bit extravagant, how many years did you spent there? I am on my 21th year and did not see more than 2% yet :)

L
 
Lou_tribal said:
Please don't mind my comment but every inch look a bit extravagant, how many years did you spent there? I am on my 21th year and did not see more than 2% yet :)

L
Click to expand...

Wifey B: Ok....we drove around the entire island. No, we didn't see everything there was to see. Only got the highlights and you're right, it would take years to see it all. What I was trying to say was we saw a lot beyond Halifax, even though we were docked in Halifax. :)
 
caltexflanc said:
If you really did that route, you missed a lot of primo cruising grounds and lovely places to visit. Was it a race of some kind, or did you make some intermediate stops? No Maine or Fundy? No Lunenburg? No Lipscomb or Yankee Cove? No Bras d'Or? No Charlottetown and environs? No Bouctouche or Miramichi? Just to name a very few on the east side of that "loop".
Click to expand...

Wifey B: Answering, even though you were responding to hubby's post.

Did do some Maine, note he said Portland, but need more time in Maine. Didn't do Fundy. Took our rib by the area of Yankee Cove. Lunenburg by road. Also Bras D'Or by road on the way to and from Sidney. No Bouctouche or Miramichi. This was just one trip passing through. Next time we go we'll try to see other areas. It was only a six week trip and we wanted a good bit of time in Quebec City and Montreal. Next time we go we'll skip some places we saw this time and trade for others. We don't try to get every stop in on a single trip or each trip. We were going to cruise there about six weeks and chose basically to stop at 8 places in Canada. Also got a feel for what we'd like to do next time. We'd also like to check out Newfoundland sometime. All the locations you mentioned are worthy of stops although not sure we could have docked at them all. Size might have been an issue at some. I don't have that info with me. :)

On a side note, we're in NC, but at home getting more wind tomorrow from Nine than we did from Dorian.
 
BandB said:
Wifey B: Answering, even though you were responding to hubby's post.

Did do some Maine, note he said Portland, but need more time in Maine. Didn't do Fundy. Took our rib by the area of Yankee Cove. Lunenburg by road. Also Bras D'Or by road on the way to and from Sidney. No Bouctouche or Miramichi. This was just one trip passing through. Next time we go we'll try to see other areas. It was only a six week trip and we wanted a good bit of time in Quebec City and Montreal. Next time we go we'll skip some places we saw this time and trade for others. We don't try to get every stop in on a single trip or each trip. We were going to cruise there about six weeks and chose basically to stop at 8 places in Canada. Also got a feel for what we'd like to do next time. We'd also like to check out Newfoundland sometime. All the locations you mentioned are worthy of stops although not sure we could have docked at them all. Size might have been an issue at some. I don't have that info with me. :)

On a side note, we're in NC, but at home getting more wind tomorrow from Nine than we did from Dorian.
Click to expand...

I'd have to ask, then what was the point of going by boat? Plane (even private for about the same cost) and car do all that much better. I ask because your ports don't match up to those in the prior post, by the way. One said Boston to Halifax and now Portland enters the conversation. RIB from where to the Yankee Cove area? Not Halifax. You drove to Sydney? You went tight by Bras d'Or on the way to Canso and PEI. It all sounds really weird to me, I apologize, but I'm just trying to make some sense of it, and as written will not help those interested in making the Downeast Loop.
 
caltexflanc said:
I'd have to ask, then what was the point of going by boat? Plane (even private for about the same cost) and car do all that much better. I ask because your ports don't match up to those in the prior post, by the way. One said Boston to Halifax and now Portland enters the conversation. RIB from where to the Yankee Cove area? Not Halifax. You drove to Sydney? You went tight by Bras d'Or on the way to Canso and PEI. It all sounds really weird to me, I apologize, but I'm just trying to make some sense of it, and as written will not help those interested in making the Downeast Loop.
Click to expand...

Seems to me your beating up on BandB. None of us cruise the same way, or see everything in any journey. You know your schedule, boat, resources and interests. The way they do it wouldn't be anybody elses cup of tea but thats the nature of this pastime.
 
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