MMSI rant, part two

So my Raymarine radio, from prev owner had his MMSI in it. I cannot just do a code and change the MMSI, I have to MAIL it to "Raymarine Service Center" in New Hampshire.
So today, pulled it out, had to cut a few wires nicely previously tied with shrink tubing and go online.
The Raymarine website is a mess. Ended up with FLIR, which has nothing to do with VHF radios in "REPAIR out of warranty". Their site says no info on typing in "MMSI".
Will cost me $108.00 to Raymarine plus shipping, another 20 buck or more and insurance.
Who knows when it will come back?
In the past 30 years I have had about 6 big boats, a couple with Raymarine instruments in them. Always a slog with Raymarine. Terrible support. Although this may be "the last boat", I would rip out any Raymarine on the next one and put in some Garmin, or Simrad or Furuno or an Edsel.

It is frustrating. But kudos to you in looking to get the details accurate. Many don't bother.

I hate to ask - did you check the MMSI in your AIS (if any?).

mmsi ais

oh noooo.
you mean there radio vhf and ais are different?
good thing i am retired. i will try to tackle that tomorrow. but probably no help from Raymarine.

It is just not Raymarine, it is illegal in the US for the end user to change the MMSI number. Did you try and have the previous owner release the MMSI number to you. It worked for me. I was in the same situation with the VHF and the AIS.

Beat up Raymarine if you want....but are the other manufacturers any better for what you want?

adornato said:

oh noooo.
you mean there radio vhf and ais are different?
good thing i am retired. i will try to tackle that tomorrow. but probably no help from Raymarine.

Click to expand...

Not if you are using the AIS in your VHF. But if they are separate - then yes, you have to change the MMSI in your AIS too.

The VHF is the most important, if you need to send out a distress it will send out all information that will link to your boat, name, color, usual people on board, who to contact on shore etc.

The AIS data will show to other boats - but not as life-saving critical as your VHF.

Try asking your question on the Raymarine Forum. They will answer in a day or two.

I have had nothing but great support from Raymarine. They repaired a MFD of mine for a reasonable cost and I got it back within 2 weeks. I had an 8 year old DSM that started to hang up. It was a known problem but it was 8 years old. They replaced it for free with a current model. Then the next year I was talking to the support guy and mentioned that they replaced the DSM and he told me to send in the one they gave me the year before and they would replace it with an even more current model. Who does that? Maybe it’s just me that gets great support??? No, they have spent a lot of time with me working on configuration issues and walked me through them until I felt comfortable.

4fun1 said:

It is just not Raymarine, it is illegal in the US for the end user to change the MMSI number. Did you try and have the previous owner release the MMSI number to you. It worked for me. I was in the same situation with the VHF and the AIS.

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That's how it's supposed to work. The MMSI is supposed to stay with the boat, forever. Just change the contact info for the owner. But in practice sellers disappear and buyers don't want to deal with it so just get a new MMSI.

menzies said:

Not if you are using the AIS in your VHF. But if they are separate - then yes, you have to change the MMSI in your AIS too.

The VHF is the most important, if you need to send out a distress it will send out all information that will link to your boat, name, color, usual people on board, who to contact on shore etc.

The AIS data will show to other boats - but not as life-saving critical as your VHF.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, both the VHF and AIS should be programmed with the same MMSI number, but you will need to program it separately into each device.

Reset of MMSI for DSC Radio by End User - CONTINUOUSWAVE
Some you can change with email help.
Some only make you pay shipping, thats ok, some make you pay shipping and their fee, thats bad. So why support such a company.

Some email you a code, that is great.
Standard-Horizon GX1850 VHF Marine Band DSC Radio - CONTINUOUSWAVE
MMSI RESET

The owner's manual mentions that the MMSI of the DSC radio can be reset by the user after contacting the factory to obtain a reset code. Standard-Horizon has already used this method on the HX870 hand held radio. This is a significant improvement over the usual situation where the radio was required to be shipped to the factory or an authorized service center for any change of the maritime mobile service identity.

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Yes, get the MMSI numbers correct for your various devices. For many this includes your emergency transponder whether an EPIRB or its clones. For a real serious emergency in lonely waters an EPIRB is essential, a VHF may be rendered useless because you've abandoned the boat or your electrics are down.

Having personal experience with the importance of an EPIRB in a life and death rescue circumstance, an EPIRB was an early purchase when we started cruising in remote far away places. With no cell coverage and beyond VHF range it was an easy decision.

sunchaser said:

Yes, get the MMSI numbers correct for your various devices. For many this includes your emergency transponder whether an EPIRB or its clones. For a real serious emergency in lonely waters an EPIRB is essential, a VHF may be rendered useless because

you've abandoned the boat or your electrics are down.

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Noteworthy, the MMSI associated with the EPIRB is not recorded in the EPIRB, it's in the database where the EPIRB is registered. So changing that one doesn't involve the device itself, just the records. That can be done online, and should be updated as required periodically. I receive a notice that it's due with a link. When you set up your data, record the login and password and keep it with the paperwork for the EPIRB. You'll never be able to return to the website otherwise!

twistedtree said:

Just to be clear, both the VHF and AIS should be programmed with the same MMSI number, but you will need to program it separately into each device.

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When I got Sonas the AIS had the PO's MMSI programmed in. Both VHF for some daft reason did not have any MMSI programmed.

So I applied for my own MMSI and put that into the radios and used it on all other documentation (EPIRB/PLBs etc.). I had the PO release his MMSI to me and updated my information to that. Before doing so I checked heavily to see if there was any limitation on having more than one MMSI for a single vessel and found nothing.

Good pracice - no. The issue was if anyone picked up my MMSI from my AIS and tried to contact me via VHF - they couldn't! I decided that would do until I replaced the AIS with a better one which I planned on doing (previous was very basic). Of course I have never heard, seen, or know of any recreational boater using or receiving a direct VHF call anyway before or after!

This saved me from having to send off the AIS. Then last year I replaced the AIS with new and put in the new MMSI - so now I have just the one.

So I agree you should, just pointing out that, as far as I could work out, it is not a legal/rule requirement.

Being curious I googled "change raymarine MMSI number". There are a number of suggestions for DIY.

Why is this important to do if the current number is linked to the boat?

menzies said:

When I got Sonas the AIS had the PO's MMSI programmed in. Both VHF for some daft reason did not have any MMSI programmed.

So I applied for my own MMSI and put that into the radios and used it on all other documentation (EPIRB/PLBs etc.). I had the PO release his MMSI to me and updated my information to that. Before doing so I checked heavily to see if there was any limitation on having more than one MMSI for a single vessel and found nothing.

Good pracice - no. The issue was if anyone picked up my MMSI from my AIS and tried to contact me via VHF - they couldn't! I decided that would do until I replaced the AIS with a better one which I planned on doing (previous was very basic). Of course I have never heard, seen, or know of any recreational boater using or receiving a direct VHF call anyway before or after!

This saved me from having to send off the AIS. Then last year I replaced the AIS with new and put in the new MMSI - so now I have just the one.

So I agree you should, just pointing out that, as far as I could work out, it is not a legal/rule requirement.

Click to expand...

huh, that's a combination I didn't consider. But I too know of nothing that says you can't have different MMSIs on the same boat. It's just no the norm. I mostly didn't want the OP to think he needed to obtain two MMSIs, one for each device.

Soo-Valley said:

Being curious I googled "change raymarine MMSI number". There are a number of suggestions for DIY.

Why is this important to do if the current number is linked to the boat?

Click to expand...

It's not.


The way it's supposed to work is that when you buy a boat that has an MMSI, the MMSI stays with the boat, and nothing needs to be reprogrammed. That's part of why it's not easy to re-program - you should never have to do it.


Then, depending on who issued the MMSI, you are supposed to transfer it from the old owner to you. This should be standard procedure in any boat sale, but of course nobody thinks about it at the time, and I expect brokers don't want to do anything that will slow or delay closing. So it gets ignored.


If BoatUS issued the MMSI, then you get the original owner to transfer the account over to you. You update with your contact info, and you are done. All that needs to be re-programmed is the boat name that's reported by AIS, and I think you can change that on Class B devices, but I'm not positive.


If the FCC issued the MMSI, then it gets released when the previous owner cancels their SA license. Once again, I expect this gets ignored 90% of the time. Then, when you apply for your own SA license, you can request the already assigned MMSI and should be granted it, provided it was properly released.


Note that unlike an MMSI which follows the boat, the FCC SA license does not, and needs to be cancelled when the boat is sold.


So if you follow the intended procedure, all that needs to be re-programmed is the boat name in the AIS, and perhaps the call sign (can't remember if that's in Class B).

twistedtree said:

It's not.


The way it's supposed to work is that when you buy a boat that has an MMSI, the MMSI stays with the boat, and nothing needs to be reprogrammed. That's part of why it's not easy to re-program - you should never have to do it.


Then, depending on who issued the MMSI, you are supposed to transfer it from the old owner to you. This should be standard procedure in any boat sale, but of course nobody thinks about it at the time, and I expect brokers don't want to do anything that will slow or delay closing. So it gets ignored.


If BoatUS issued the MMSI, then you get the original owner to transfer the account over to you. You update with your contact info, and you are done. All that needs to be re-programmed is the boat name that's reported by AIS, and I think you can change that on Class B devices, but I'm not positive.


If the FCC issued the MMSI, then it gets released when the previous owner cancels their SA license. Once again, I expect this gets ignored 90% of the time. Then, when you apply for your own SA license, you can request the already assigned MMSI and should be granted it, provided it was properly released.


Note that unlike an MMSI which follows the boat, the FCC SA license does not, and needs to be cancelled when the boat is sold.


So if you follow the intended procedure, all that needs to be re-programmed is the boat name in the AIS, and perhaps the call sign (can't remember if that's in Class B).

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Exactly. Did this last year. Took all of 10 minutes after the previous owner canceled it on his end. Boat US made it easy.

Cigatoo said:

Exactly. Did this last year. Took all of 10 minutes after the previous owner canceled it on his end. Boat US made it easy.

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Be aware that you need a FCC MMSI if you plan to travel outside of the US.

BoatUS MMSI for domestic use only.

I think we discussed this a couple of months ago - I think Boat US should discontinue issuing MMSI numbers. There is no reason for people not to have an FCC issued one.

Too bad BoatUS MMSI is not a dual registration with FCC as well...

menzies said:

Be aware that you need a FCC MMSI if you plan to travel outside of the US.

BoatUS MMSI for domestic use only.

I think we discussed this a couple of months ago - I think Boat US should discontinue issuing MMSI numbers. There is no reason for people not to have an FCC issued one.

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Plenty of people will never take their boats outside of the US though. And for those people, I'd rather see them get the free BoatUS MMSI, as they likely wouldn't bother otherwise (the FCC license costs money and has to be renewed after 10 years).

menzies said:

Be aware that you need a FCC MMSI if you plan to travel outside of the US.

BoatUS MMSI for domestic use only.

I think we discussed this a couple of months ago - I think Boat US should discontinue issuing MMSI numbers. There is no reason for people not to have an FCC issued one.

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I don't have FCC number and it works great on Canada.

The issue with traveling with a BoatUS MMSI is this: it'll show up on other devices, it'll work for DSC calls. However, if you send out a distress call, that MMSI isn't in any international databases (an FCC issued one is), so other countries won't have immediate access to all of the data associated with that MMSI. They'll just see the number.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

I don't have FCC number and it works great on Canada.

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When you say it works - what do you mean?

If you use a BoatUS MMSI when going to a foreign port, or communicating outside of the US, you are illegal.

Illegal to whom? If you have a Boat US MMSI you have one voluntarily already. Is an MMSI required for every vessel in Canada, including US vessels?

BDofMSP said:

Illegal to whom? If you have a Boat US MMSI you have one voluntarily already. Is an MMSI required for every vessel in Canada, including US vessels?

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As a US vessel you would be illegal as far as the FTC and the USCG are concerned, who grant BoatUS the authority to issue MMSIs for domestic use only.

I see. So you don't have to have one at all, but if you have one it needs to be the right one. That makes sense. Thanks.
BD

If you intend on using Digital Selective Calling (DSC) then you must have an acurate MMSI, otherwise no one cares if you have it or not.

Some 30 years ago when I got my piece of paper saying I can operate a VHF I was told the US frowns on Canadians without an MMSI, and vice versa. Since then I have never heard of anyone getting a citation for not having it.
I do know that scuttlebutt at Coast Guard was that there were too many radios assigned via MMSI to Trawlers LOL which were sold off to runabouts causing false search and rescues looking for the wrong boat. MMSI exists but here I doubt if anyone cares if you have it or not.

BDofMSP said:

I see. So you don't have to have one at all, but if you have one it needs to be the right one. That makes sense. Thanks.
BD

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You don't have to have an MMSI for your radio at all. If boating outside the US you need one from the FCC if you are going to have one.

More importantly you must have a ship's radio license and a radio operator's license if using your VHF outside if the US.

The ship license if for ten years, the operator's if for life.

menzies said:

When you say it works - what do you mean?

If you use a BoatUS MMSI when going to a foreign port, or communicating outside of the US, you are illegal.

Click to expand...

BDofMSP said:

Illegal to whom? If you have a Boat US MMSI you have one voluntarily already. Is an MMSI required for every vessel in Canada, including US vessels?

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Doubt it is illegal. Like to see the law you are referencing.

I have messages come over both my radios on DSC many times in Canada. Mostly distress calls.