Smaller, moved away from trawler?

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rsn48

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Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
2,019
Location
Canada
Vessel Name
Capricorn
Vessel Make
Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
I've read hints of folks moving from trawlers to smaller and faster boats in a few articles in Pacific Yachting. But I will point you to the video below, you only need to listen to the first minute of it, a review of a Cutwater 30. In it the sales guy talks of those moving from larger boats to something smaller, cheaper to operate, maintain, and store. Easier to cruise. Yes I do realize its a sales person pushing a product, but as a former sales person in the insurance industry, we do tell the truth about the product, if you don't you eventually get caught out. And the old IBM sales training course taught you how to handle objections (problems).


Some of the boats aren't faster but if you do purchase a Cutwater, you'll definitely be cruising probably at the fastest you ever have.

In a way, it makes sense, similar to a sailboater transitioning to a trawler for easy of use, same thing only different. I know there are express cruiser types on this forum, many of the Chris Craft gang and types like me.

So my question is: have you stepped down from a larger boat to a significantly smaller one, not necessarily an express cruiser, just something smaller?
 
I like a lot of the points. I just want a fly bridge to be out in the air. The lower helms on these sorts of boats always seem too low and with poor visibility, especially with the bow riding higher.
 
One of the options we will be looking at when we decide that the current boat is too big for us is the Sabre 48 - not sure yet with FB or not.
 
Here is the Cut Water 30 with fly bridge, jump to the 2:23 mark in the video. I'm not trying to flog this boat, I will never own one, though I do like them. My own personal belief which the majority will disagree with is that this style of boat is best suited for the Pacific North West, coastal British Columbia and the Alaska Pan Handle.

From local marinas in these areas there are "jumps" to be made before you hit your desired location. For me, the problem of these jumps is they get really boring after a while due to repetition, so ten round trips is 20 crossings. I'll give one example and that is Port Townsend in Washington state. A great location for a marina. But if you are headed to the Gulph Islands or the San Juans, you have a jump to make, then you can slow down and smell the roses (kelp).

From my home marina in Comox I have similiar jumps to make and its nice to make them quickly, Johnstone Strait is one, motoring over to Powell River to either go to Jarvis Inlet or Desolation Sound is another. If your boat is moored in Sidney BC, you will have a jump if you are headed to the San Juans.

 
Not planning to go smaller from our current AT 41 and I would offer a counter opinion from what was presented on several points. We cruise at 8 or 9 kts much of the time; you say we'd be cruising faster... but why? I see no point in going faster on average; we're more interested in seeing the sites (it's often the journey, not the destination). Although we can push up to 16 or 17 kts at WOT, but likely only to try to outrun a weather system or some emergency (haven't done this since the survey at purchase).
It also claims "cheaper to operate, maintain, and store"; i don't really see that either. by the video claims, that Cutwater is burning 2.4 or 7 or up to 15 GPH at 7 kts/10kts/20kts. if i'm running my Cummins down at 7 kts, i'm very close to these numbers, probably 3 or 4 GPH yet i have nearly twice the space on board.
Plus there's a lot of folks here on TF that would argue the parts for that Volvo will be more expensive.
Finally, if we have family or visitors on board for a few days at a time, we'd much prefer to have the extra space. Especially if you're going to do the loop or some extensive cruising (at least for us) that smaller boat would be pretty cramped. Again just my humble opinion ;)
 
I'm kinda with you guys... neat little boat, but if I wanted all those fold outs and dual purpose things, I'd could argue for a bigger boat.

I'll probably down size a bit in the future to something similar, but as long as I'm spending more than just a few nights on the anchor, the bigger boat will be more desirable.

However, it's a non starter with the Volvo.


I like the Beneteau 30 better but also has a Volvo. The 35 looks neat, and with a Cummins.
 
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I think again it points out different boats for different folks and it's a good reminder that a 40' boat running 7 knots and taking rough seas isn't right for everyone. You see it in every type of boating. I think of small SF owners and one group of them goes to center consoles next while the other group wants bigger SF's. I hear people bash Bayliner or Mainship and I don't know two brands of trawler type boats, appealing to trawler type people, that have more happy and satisfied owners. Others will bash Sea Ray, only the most successful brand ever. Are all those buyers so horribly stupid and wrong?

One other boater not to overlook, the owner of multiple boats. A lot of people own one boat for long range cruising and something much smaller and faster for use locally. On lakes it was runabout and fishing boat or pontoon. On the coast it's yacht and CC. We have a lot of trawler owners here who own boats like Crestliners and other runabouts.

As to downsizing, I've known many to do it after completing some major cruises. They decide to return to land, buy a small home near the water and sell their long range cruising boat while buying a smaller boat for day trips and weekends.
 
A big reason for downsizing is a basic change in boating habits.


No change, the probably the boat you have evolved to is still the right one.....if you have given it intelligent thought along the way.
 
Specifically to the point of faster speed.

I have a 7 knot boat that I like. However in the PNW we have a lot of barriers to access our cruising grounds.vthe Sloaboat folks referred to them as gates. The Juan de Fuca Strait is one, there are lots of rapids, other places are just stretches that can be really slow when you are bucking a tidal current that runs 50% or more of your cruising speed.

This is what makes boats like the Cutwater so popular around here. The speed can easily convert a three day trip to get to a destination to a one day trip.
sledge said:
Not planning to go smaller from our current AT 41 and I would offer a counter opinion from what was presented on several points. We cruise at 8 or 9 kts much of the time; you say we'd be cruising faster... but why? I see no point in going faster on average; we're more interested in seeing the sites (it's often the journey, not the destination). Although we can push up to 16 or 17 kts at WOT, but likely only to try to outrun a weather system or some emergency (haven't done this since the survey at purchase).
It also claims "cheaper to operate, maintain, and store"; i don't really see that either. by the video claims, that Cutwater is burning 2.4 or 7 or up to 15 GPH at 7 kts/10kts/20kts. if i'm running my Cummins down at 7 kts, i'm very close to these numbers, probably 3 or 4 GPH yet i have nearly twice the space on board.
Plus there's a lot of folks here on TF that would argue the parts for that Volvo will be more expensive.
Finally, if we have family or visitors on board for a few days at a time, we'd much prefer to have the extra space. Especially if you're going to do the loop or some extensive cruising (at least for us) that smaller boat would be pretty cramped. Again just my humble opinion ;)
Click to expand...
 
Speed is handy, provided the Wx allows you to use it.

Last month we took our 28' Crozier around
Prince of Wales island in 3 days & 2 nights, which is about
a 300 nm trip.

We went clockwise, starting and finishing in Ketchikan.

Being able to get around Cape Chacon in just a few hours after
leaving was great as it is the main barrier / gate to a successful
tour around PoW.

Next time we'll take a lot more time to enjoy the scenery.
:)
 
rsn48 said:
Here is the Cut Water 30 with fly bridge, jump to the 2:23 mark in the video. I'm not trying to flog this boat, I will never own one, though I do like them. My own personal belief which the majority will disagree with is that this style of boat is best suited for the Pacific North West, coastal British Columbia and the Alaska Pan Handle.

From local marinas in these areas there are "jumps" to be made before you hit your desired location. For me, the problem of these jumps is they get really boring after a while due to repetition, so ten round trips is 20 crossings. I'll give one example and that is Port Townsend in Washington state. A great location for a marina. But if you are headed to the Gulph Islands or the San Juans, you have a jump to make, then you can slow down and smell the roses (kelp).

From my home marina in Comox I have similiar jumps to make and its nice to make them quickly, Johnstone Strait is one, motoring over to Powell River to either go to Jarvis Inlet or Desolation Sound is another. If your boat is moored in Sidney BC, you will have a jump if you are headed to the San Juans.

Click to expand...




Are you sure you're not a Cutwater salesman? I'm suspicious at this point. :D
 
Are you sure you're not a Cutwater salesman? I'm suspicious at this point.

Hint: The 48 in my moniker is my birth year. Every once in a while, I'll think something like, that could be an interesting job to do, then very quickly reality sets in and I think, why would I want to ruin paradise.
 
The Cutwater 30 CB / Ranger 31 CB would be a great boat, but for that size, I think they should follow their smaller models and switch them to an outboard. I keep reading bad stuff about Volvo diesels, here and elsewhere.

"The 48 in my moniker is my birth year."

Same for my dad. :)
 
Pontooner said:
The Cutwater 30 CB / Ranger 31 CB would be a great boat, but for that size, I think they should follow their smaller models and switch them to an outboard. I keep reading bad stuff about Volvo diesels, here and elsewhere.

"The 48 in my moniker is my birth year."

Same for my dad. :)
Click to expand...

I have been aboard a couple of Cutwaters, 28 and 30. Both with outboards. I have also read here on TF about the transom weakness that Cutwaters have suffered, unable to stand the stress of high hp outboards.
Personally I think they have too many little gimmicky things to try to give you the amenities of a bigger boat.
I also think they should stick with the Volvo inboard, as that has a great reputation both in its smaller sizes and larger, where it is used to power boats up to 65' (Coastal Craft is the biggest I know of using the big Volvos in their 65).
 
Pontooner said:
The Cutwater 30 CB / Ranger 31 CB would be a great boat, but for that size, I think they should follow their smaller models and switch them to an outboard. I keep reading bad stuff about Volvo diesels, here and elsewhere.

"The 48 in my moniker is my birth year."

Same for my dad. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, and you're writing bad stuff by spreading what you say you keep reading. As with many things, some have never owned one, others had them decades ago. There are a lot of very happy Volvo owners who have bought in Europe in the past 30 years and in the US in the past 15 or so. More builders are using Volvo inboards independent of IPS.
 
rsn48 said:
Are you sure you're not a Cutwater salesman? I'm suspicious at this point.

Hint: The 48 in my moniker is my birth year. Every once in a while, I'll think something like, that could be an interesting job to do, then very quickly reality sets in and I think, why would I want to ruin paradise.
Click to expand...
:thumb:
 
While the downsizing argument has merit, spending $300K+ to save some storage and operating cost...I'd have to see the numbers. When we changed boats at the beginning of this year one of the things we found when we looked smaller boats was motion. The lighter more rapid motion of a smaller boat isn't comfortable when you're used to larger heavier vessels.

As to speed, well I think that depends on what you're used to. I spend most of my crusing life in the PNW at 7.5kn, our new to us Tollycraft cruises economically at 8.5kn (~4GPM) and I'm satisifed. However, our ski boat on Lake Tahoe cruises at 25kn, I wouldn't trade it for a boat that does 8kn unless it had sails!
 
Slowmo said:
While the downsizing argument has merit, spending $300K+ to save some storage and operating cost...I'd have to see the numbers. When we changed boats at the beginning of this year one of the things we found when we looked smaller boats was motion. The lighter more rapid motion of a smaller boat isn't comfortable when you're used to larger heavier vessels.

As to speed, well I think that depends on what you're used to. I spend most of my crusing life in the PNW at 7.5kn, our new to us Tollycraft cruises economically at 8.5kn (~4GPM) and I'm satisifed. However, our ski boat on Lake Tahoe cruises at 25kn, I wouldn't trade it for a boat that does 8kn unless it had sails!
Click to expand...

A bit like downsizing houses. I know a couple with a gorgeous 3400 sq ft home in Boca Raton that really liked a condo they saw nearby. 1400 sq ft condo that a friend has so looked in that building. They could sell their home for $600k and buy the condo for $280k and be great. Until they figured more. First, they'd only get around $550k net and closing costs would push the condo price up. Then HOA from current $100 per month to $600 per month. So, if they cleared $270k and added $6000 per year expense, that's 2.22% interest on the money realized, more than they could earn in the bank, less than perhaps on investments. And less than half the space. When the kids would visit, hotel rooms or rental condos in their building.

Downsizing can be great but be aware of the pitfalls. On boats, it may well be in ride and feeling of safety for passengers. It's going from a boat you've worked out all the issues on to one you've got to start over on. It's losing money on the sale and paying brokers 10% plus fees or commissions being paid by and to someone on the one you're buying.
 
A friend who is a life long boater, sold his 47 Meridian and bought a 28 foot boat. He thought it would be easier to maintain and handle.

He is regretting his desicion. The small boat is like a feather on the water. It gets blown around easily by wind and there is no momentum so docking is challenging. He had no difficulties docking the Meridian.

He is an older large person and has new bruises where he has collided with the ingerior. And he really hates the listing of the boat as he moves around.

The engine space is tight and accessible by reaching down through the hatch. He has difficulty reaching the dipstick.
 
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Here I am, the poster child for this thread. Downsized from great old Grand Banks 42, twin engines, RIB, flying bridge and all to this roughly $90K boat with all the electronics/generator/head/bed/AC units I had in the GB. Boating habits change, yes. Reduced maintenance, are you kidding? OF COURSE. I press the lift button, and this woodless wonder is done for the day or month or longer if I don't elect to splash it, and barnacles don't grow in the air. Mainships may not have the cachet of Back Coves or other pricey brands, but it gives me a 15 MPH cruise at 8.4 GPH, the safety and dependability of a 315 HP Yanmar diesel. Thought about outboards, NAH.
 
I went from a 44’ trawler to a 36’ twin jet boat that cruises at 25, WOT 30. I’m more limited by time than other factors. And my wife enjoys the destination rather than the journey. I doubt I’ll ever own a larger boat again.
 
In my mind, the voyage of a recreational boat is the journey's primary purpose (the joy of being in command) and not necessarily the destination. If the destination is the quest, a ship, airplane, automobile, bus, or train can be better than on a boat. On the other hand, most often find a cruise ship is the destination rather than ports visited.
 
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Most of us know the old saying, when you get on a power boat you are going somewhere, when you get on a sailboat, you are already there.

In the traditional "whatever floats your boat," there are many reasons for boating, if you are a fisherman, the boat is secondary, most of these guys don't spend massive amounts of time on navigation, seamanship, etc. Some cruisers, whether sail or power enjoy being on the water, the water is their salve for the soul. And others want to go places, many places, others want to got to a few places and put their feet up and do nothing, others go for the socializing.

The reasons for boating are many, there are no "best" reasons for boating. In my own case, I look at what I want and what will fulfill what I want best. If I were a trawler guy, I'd be a fast trawler guy. I can find happiness in smaller spaces, it was true in my RV world and its true in boating. Most in the RV world want big and snazzy, the more slide outs the better. But there are a small smattering of us that enjoy small and portable. Today I drove past a family in a public park, their 17 foot Big Foot travel trailer pulled over beside the grass while the family ate a snack, let the dog run, and then would move on. Brought back fond memories of our Big Foot. Our 35 foot fifth wheel was never a "spontaneous" event, to move something larger through busy traffic was always slightly more unsettling. But that's me, its not better than everyone else's use of an RV, its just my use.

I think some into boating for the love of it are in small boats, really too small for their needs, others are into larger boats that I believe are bigger than they need and the boat is not a liberation but a debilitation.

I see sailboaters who get older and quit boating because they can't or don't want to handle a sailboat anymore. But these very same folk could be on the water with a power boat but they don't make the jump, they wouldn't be a "real" boater. And I see older folks with larger boats who get out of boating because the boat becomes too much, and I think if they went smaller they might get a few more precious years out of our wonderful cruising life.
 
markpierce said:
In my mind, the voyage of a recreational boat is the journey's primary purpose (the joy of being in command) and not necessarily the destination. If the destination is the quest, a ship, airplane, automobile, bus, or train can be better than on a boat. On the other hand, most often find a cruise ship is the destination rather than ports visited.
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought it was the latrine and hospitals on a cruise ship.
 
Oh, I thought it was the latrine and hospitals on a cruise ship

The destinations are the excuse of the cruise. Can I say I've really been to Peurto Rico after being there for 5 hours with the cruise ship excursion? The real purpose of the cruise ship is to get more money out of you, booze, shopping, gambling and of course the ever famous Lido deck....lol.
 
An Allweather or Calkins Bartender would be perfect 'Old Guy' (probably single) boats, especially on the northwest coast of North America.
 
rsn48 said:
Oh, I thought it was the latrine and hospitals on a cruise ship

The destinations are the excuse of the cruise. Can I say I've really been to Peurto Rico after being there for 5 hours with the cruise ship excursion? The real purpose of the cruise ship is to get more money out of you, booze, shopping, gambling and of course the ever famous Lido deck....lol.
Click to expand...

I think of a cruise as a shopping mall with a hotel attached (like The Florida Mall in MCO). It's not some place I'd like to spend a week.
 
When traveling becomes the destination instead of the trip, I'll switch to a motorhome with a boat on a trailer.

Ted
 
The destination is the purpose of the trip for us. Whether it's the San Juans, Desolation, Broughtons, Hakai, Alaska etc.

See something or a place you haven't been to before.

Catch really large salmon, halibut or prawns.

Meet up with friends.

Anchor in a cool breezy anchorage to get away from the mid summer heat.
 
downsized twice

If Rich Gano is the poster child, I guess I am too.
I went from a Krogen 42 to a Sabre 42 express with twin caterpillers 450 hp each, and then...
bought a Mainship 30 with single yanmar 240 and a bow thruster.
Very happy with the decision in terms of singlehanding, costs, lack of teak,
and overall usability. My wife laments the loss of a walkaround bed but really, she hardly ever spent a night on the old boats. I told her I would rent a hotel room when she wants to do an overnight.
I do miss the wave riding abilities of a twenty ton ship in the ocean but not docking one singlehanded in a cross wind.
 
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