Teak deck removal project

Last week I started removing my teak decks, I knew it would be a lot of work but not this much! It has been about twice as much work that I expected, the majority of the wood came up in small pieces. I have tried to remove all the screws then tried to pry the wood free form the fiberglass. Sometimes you get lucky and get a long strip up, but the majority splits, breaks, and just damn near works you to death. If I had it to do over again I would defiantly hire some help. The good news is I did not find any bad or soft spots in the fiberglass yet. It looks like after 25 plus years the decks were still not leaking, which amazed me. I have a few pictures of what it looks like in case you are thinking about taking this project on yourself. My plan is to end up with decks that are painted with non skid, so feel free to post any tips, tricks or ideas you might have!

Sneak preview of what I may be doing someday. I'm over at South Shore Harbour, where are you doing the work at?

What are you filling the screw holes with, and are you doing it as you go along? I've heard some people use a temporary filling or tape over in case it rains, then do something more permanent later. I also hear an air chisel makes the removal a LOT easier, if you're not finished yet. Do you plan to just sand down to clean fiberglass*/ gelcoat then paint?

He's under cover as far as exposure goes....

Good luck Troy. I didn't know you were tackling this.

I saw a pneumatically driven tile lifter (used to remove glued down tiles) advertised at Harbor Freight recently.* Might be just the thing with a rented small air compressor.

DS

Ahhh Troy,*** After you have nursed and wrapped your blisters and opened another beer, check this out.
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/ytayk6">
http://tinyurl.com/ytayk6</a>


At the bottom of each page, click on the link to continue to the next page.
*
I removed all the teak from our Krogen cockpit a couple years ago and basically demolished the whole thing. The difference is, I savaged all the teak planks for restoration later! I figured I had 4 hours invested in each single plank and only cracked one plank. That does not include the cockpit restoration time. The cockpit teak stringers were rotting bad and the wife wanted the teak back on. You know what they say..If she aint happy, nobodys happy!I feel your pain!!!Ken

Keith
I am at Blue Dolphin, dock 6 if you want to take a look. I am around the boat quite a bit so let me know if you want to see what I have been working on.I agree that the air chisel would help. I tried one but didnt have a compressor that could keep up. Not to mention that its extremely loud and I dont know how long the marina would put up with the noise..... I am under a covered slip that will keep me sheltered from the rain. I have removed as many screws as possible, drilled and cleaned the screw holes then filled them with West System. It is expensive stuff but I have had good luck with it in the past. My plan is to sand down the existing fiberglass, then lay down a new layer of glass then paint. The fiberglass portion is a huge learning curve for me and luckily I have a friend that has some previous experience and is willing to help me out. I will be glad to keep an updated post on what we figure out as we go.

botemon wrote:

Ahhh Troy,*** After you have nursed and wrapped your blisters and opened another beer, check this out.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/ytayk6">
http://tinyurl.com/ytayk6</a>


At the bottom of each page, click on the link to continue to the next page.
I removed all the teak from our Krogen cockpit a couple years ago and basically demolished the whole thing. The difference is, I savaged all the teak planks for restoration later! I figured I had 4 hours invested in each single plank and only cracked one plank. That does not include the cockpit restoration time. The cockpit teak stringers were rotting bad and the wife wanted the teak back on. You know what they say..If she aint happy, nobodys happy!I feel your pain!!!Ken

Click to expand...

Ken
You are a brave soul. From what I have seen in the pictures your work looks great!!!!
I dont know how you saved the decks, mine came off in splinters.
After the work I have done I can not even think about going back with the teak.

Get a Defender Industry Catalog , and find out what a "steel roller" is.

Its an aluminum or plastic roller that looks like a series of large and small washers .

A 3 inch wide 1 inch dia roller will be a HUGE help in laying a couple of layers of mat in your deck.

My way , of doing it would be to get a 7 inch roller frame , and very deep (fence painting ) rollers.

Cut the 9 in roller into 3 pieces and there cheap to toss if the resin kicks too fast.

Also get a squeeze bottle with graduations in the cap. You squeeze till the corect amount of hardner is up, and pour it into the resin and mix.

I would use NON WAXED resin if there will be more than one lauer , waxed if only one layer.

And I would use Vynelester only.

Have fun, and remember the deck must be sanded 85% or more to bare glass to bond.

Electric sanding preferred , air tools can put out oil.

FF

Here are a few pics of the deck cleaned and the holes filled......

One of the posts ( I don't recall whether it was on this site or PM's ) indicated that the postee (good word, huh) had solved his teak deck problem by removing the screws, filling the screw holes with a thin epoxy (Git Rot or equivalent), replugging the holes with teak bungs and proceeding merrily on his way.* The theory was that the teak, being glued down, no loger needed the screws and would do just fine without them.

How about a second, third, etc, opinion on this?* Sounds like quite a bit of work, but not nearly the effort required to remove the teak.

DS

Looking good Troy. Definitely making progress. Good Luck!!!


And Dark SIde, I think the word would be "poster". The only way you could be "postee" would be if you were the one who was being posted!!!....

My grammar taught me all I know about English, bless her heart.* Ain't that something.* I stand corrected.* (Correctee?)

Ho, ho, ho.* DS

Tanner---

Having had a fair amount of work done on our 35-year old teak deck I would be skeptical of the "pour epoxy down the screw holes" idea. The current practice when applying a teak deck to a subdeck is to glue the teak down, not screw it down. BUT..... the whole width of the planks are glued down with whatever adhesive they use.

I have found that while thin epoxies like CPES by Rot Doctor etc. are great for sealing wood against moisture, hardening partially rotted sections, and so forth, they have very weak adhesive properties. We tried using it to re-glue a teak shower grate and despite saturating the wood with the CPES it did not bind the components together at all. So I knocked the grate apart and re-assembled it with "traditional" epoxy--- the thick stuff--- and the grate has been solid as a rock the last three years.

The screws in an "old fashioned" teak deck bind the planks to the subdeck. I cannot see this same degree of "binding" being applied by pouring thin epoxy down the screw holes. As temperature changes and the flexing of the boat as it's used and the deck is walked on put stresses on the deck planks, I would think that they would start to come loose over time unless the sealant that the factory applied originally also acts as an adhesive. Of course if it did, there would have been no reason to install a half a billion screws......

Snip>> the whole width of the planks are glued down with whatever adhesive they use.


**** Yes I agree! You would need to glue the entire plank down and not just put epoxy in the old screw holes. This is exactly what I did. I used Tropical All Wood Glue to adhere the planks to the fiberglass. This product is from the same folks who make CPES. (Rot Doctor). After two years and 2500 miles, the deck as solid as a rock. I used the same stuff on the bungs before putting them in the old screw holes.
** Marin is also correct about using CPES. It is only used for treating the wood, not gluing it together. Just a point of thought. Dont try to stick epoxy based resin products to polyester based resin products, like what you might find at the Home Depot. In most cases it wont stick. Ask me how I know this.
Your deck looks good Troy!!
Ken

Botemon and Marin, sorry if I gave you the impression that the "GitRot" was used as an adhesive.* As I interpreted the original post, I'm assuming that the "GitRot" was used to saturate the core material in the immediate area of the screw hole.* I'd sure like to know more, Botemon, about the material you used to solve the "teak deck" probem and how you applied it.* Teak decks are great, in terms of nonskid and beauty, but as I read these posts, I can certainly agree that having teak can be a very expensive and/or time consuming luxury.

Thanks for the input.* I'll be waiting for more info.

DS

>"...but as I read these posts, I can certainly agree that having teak can be a very expensive and/or time consuming luxury."

I don't think they are if they are in good shape to start with. When we bought our boat the decks had been sanded by previous owners to where in a few places the bottoms of the seams were even with the top of the planks. However the local shipwright we use for such things determined that there was sufficient plank thickness left to warrant "saving' the deck. So he regrooved the entire main deck, then with an assistant reseamed it. Our job was to remove, re-countersink, re-seal, and replace the many hundreds of screws that were no longer covered with plugs, a job we finally finished last spring.

But now the only maintenance the deck requires is a periodic washing with salt water and Lemon Joy as I've described elsewhere. No different in terms of time and effort than keeping a fiberglass deck clean. We still have the occasional plug come out because many of them are still very thin, but we have the replacement process down to a science and we deal with them as they come out, so it's not any real effort at all anymore. And the teak is a great deck surface.

Now I understand that in hot, sunny climates ilke the Gulf, etc., a teak deck can be hell on bare feet because of the heat. But in the PNW that is not an issue.

We'd prefer to have the newer style glued-down deck, but at $20,000 to $30,000 to re-deck a GB36, we're delighted with our "ancient" screwed-down teak, thank you very much

This is the only photo I have available showing part of our deck.* Granted, everything looks 1000 percent better in a photo than it does in real life, but the deck on our boat's not bad for being 32 years old at the time the photo was taken.

-- Edited by Marin at 18:04, 2008-01-16

Marin and Oldfishboat, thanks for the comeback and encouragement.* I've sailed on boats with teak decks in the Gulf off and on for years and have never been concerned about the decks being hot -- but then on a sail boat, he who does not wear shoes winds up drop kicking a cleat sooner or later -- so hot decks do not become a factor.* Non skid, does.

I'd still like to hear more about the "Tropical Glue" business.* How was that used?* *New planking?* Replacement sections, or used with the existing deck?* Regardless of the trouble, if a teak deck can be salvaged, it would seem to me to be worth any trouble, if for no other reason, the appearance.* Marin, your deck is spectacular and I'm sure it must complement the rest of your boat.

Thanks again for the input.

DS

Most teak decks when remove come up in pieces as they are well glued/stuck to the fiberglass deck by the calking strips.*I think the screws are more to hold the deck down and in place while the calking cured.* When I have repaired/replaced areas on the Eagle I used screws to suck down/in and hold the new piece and once dry removed the screws and filled in the holes with epoxy.*

*
However, when refastening and calking the teal deck I did replace the screws with one size bigger, and if the screw would not hold/tighten did fill the hole with epoxy and re drilled/tapped.* The screws could be removed and held/secured with the calking and epoxy.* The Eagle decks are crowed/convex so the water runs to the side/gunnels, so instead of removing the whole deck would first remove just the outer 6" to 12" of teak decking.*

*
So if the teak decks are in good reasonable shape why not put the same amount of time and money maintaining them as taking them off?* I just dont get it?*I mean a teak deck give plenty of warning signs where/when they need to be maintained/repaired if people would just look and know them.** ********************

DS--

Trust me, our deck is not spectacular. It is also not "teak" colored. I did not color-correct the photo I posted so the color is too warm--- our deck is actually the typical silver'/gray color, not brown. But at 35 years old now, it is still in pretty nice shape considering what it's been through.

Phil--

Our deck is comprised of planking laid edge to edge. One edge of the top surface of each plank is routed into a groove but the groove does not go all the way down to the subdeck. It is only a fraction of an inch deep, about 1/8 to 1/4 or so. So the seam sealant does not go down and contact the subdeck at all.

In fact, the correct way to apply the seam sealant is to first clean the groove with acetone and then apply a strip of 3M automotive striping tape to the bottom of the groove. This is to prevent the seam sealant from adhering to the wood in the bottom of the groove. If the sealant adheres to the bottom of the groove, the slight movement of the wood due to flexing and temperature and moisture changes will eventually pull the sealant free of one side of the groove and water will then wick its way down under the planking. If the sealant is adhered to the sides of the groove but not the bottom, it will flex as the planks move slightly but will not pull free from the sides of the groove.

So with Grand Banks, and I believe with most other screwed down teak decks as well, the screws actually do hold the planks in place. The sealant grooves are relatively shallow and are there simply to provide a place to put the seam sealant to keep water from getting down between the planks to the subdeck. Take out the screws, and the planks will soon begin to work their way loose from the subdeck. Newer GBs, by the way, use glued-down teak decks, not screwed down decks.

But the only thing "bonding" our planking to the fiberglass subdeck is whatever American Marine was using as a plank bedding compound in 1973. From the posts about deck issues to the Grand Banks owners forum, the deck planks on GBs are very easily removed intact once the screws are out because the bedding compound does not have very strong adhesive qualities.

So if the teak decks are in good reasonable shape why not put the same amount of time and money maintaining them as taking them off?* I just dont get it?*

I mean a teak deck give plenty of warning signs where/when they need to be maintained/repaired if people would just look and know them.**

********************

Click to expand...

Well I*have a few reasons. One they are hotter than h*ll in the summer time.*
In 90*degree sun they will almost blister your feet!*
I dont want to maintain them. I want to spend my free*time boating, not working on an old wood deck *
Also I think it will help the value of the boat or at least help when I get ready to sell. Lots of people will not even consider a boat with teak decks.

Snip>> I'd sure like to know more, Botemon, about the material you used to solve the "teak deck" problem and how you applied it.
*
Hey DS,** The stuff is called Tropical All Wood Glue.http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/thea.htmlIn my case the teak deck problem was rotten stringers, so it was a complete demo of the cockpit. When the project was ready for the re-installation of the original salvaged teak planks, I used this stuff to stick the planks down to a new cloth-over-plywood deck (already glassed). It is a two part mix 50 /50. I used throw away brushes from HD and had enough pot timeto paint the back side of three planks. Its about as thick as molasses but after you apply it, it kind of settles out to a smooth consistency. I also spread it on the deck where the next three planks were to be installed. I used two deck screws with a faucet washer to hold each plank in place until it dried. I removed the screw(s) after maybe two hours (it was July!).*** This may work fine if you had several planks that needed to be removed and reapplied. The bedding material will have to be completely removed from the back of the plank and the floor. The bedding on my TT *(and it looks like Troys) seems to be the same as the seam caulk. (two part Polysulfhide). Its a bear to remove but easier when hot. I used a heat gun on the back of the planks to get the crap off. *** Ken

">Also I think it will help the value of the boat or at least help when I get ready to sell. Lots of people will not even consider a boat with teak decks."

I think this depends somewhat on the brand of boat. The Grand Banks dealer in our marina occasionally gets in a GB on which the original teak deck has been removed and a fiberglass surface installed in its place. In every case that I've heard about, these boats all ended up having their prices dropped considerably before they would sell because to most Grand Banks buyers--- not all, but most--- the teak deck is a major component of the character of the boat.

In one case the price of the boat had to be dropped by the cost of installing a new teak deck over the fiberglass surface*before the prospective buyer would agree to purchase the boat as he intended to have a new teak deck installed as soon as he took ownership.

Speaking only for myself, I would not purchase a Grand Banks that did not have its original configuration teak deck (although the deck may be a replacement). To me, a GB doesn't look like a GB without the teak decking. That's just me, but based on what I've observed in our marina, a lot of GB enthusiasts feel the same way.

This may not be true of Island Gypsies, CHBs, etc. And a buyer who specifically does not want a teak deck may pay relatively more for a boat of any make that's had one replaced with a well-done fiberglass surface (it's been my observation that a lot of fiberglass replacements are not all that well done).

-- Edited by Marin at 18:27, 2008-01-17

Teak decks are almost as interesting to debate as 2 micron vs 10 vs 30 micron fuel filters, battery charger/inverters, and other similar topics. Or the latest Honda 2000i debate on TT. My observation is that you either love or hate teak decks. Seldom do people write in with opinions that are in the middle.

For every buyer that negotiates a lower price because the teak is gone, I'll bet there is one that negotiates a lower price because the teak is there. The broker I used when I bought my current boat pointed out that the teak decks had already been removed as if that was a good thing.

I personally like my teak decks and will repair or replace as needed to keep them on my boat. I like the "personality" that they provide. I'm a traditional wooden boat fan, and also enjoy maintaining the teak trim on my boat.

It is fortunate that there are folks who like different things. Who'd walk the docks at night looking at boats if they all looked the same?

Ken Buck
A Couple of Bucks
40 Puget Trawler

">For every buyer that negotiates a lower price because the teak is gone, I'll bet there is one that negotiates a lower price because the teak is there."

No question a teak deck in poor shape will affect the selling price of a boat. It did ours, although the marine expert friend we took with us to California when we sea trialed and surveyed the boat felt the decks could be saved. So we benefited in our purchase price from a teak deck that didn't look so good at the time. But I've seen boats' selling prices, particularly sailboats for some reason, dropped way down because of a seriously failing teak deck. I've also seen owners of boats with teak decks do amazingly stupid things in an attempt to fix a problem, and in doing so sent the value of their boat into a serious dive because of the huge amount of work that would be needed toundo what the selling owner did.

But I've not observed a boat sale in which the price was reduced simply because of the presence of a teak deck. Of course, I haven't observed that many boat sales....

And in the PNW, teak decks (in decent condition) seem to be viewed more as an asset than a detriment on a boat that has them. Maybe because it's raining pretty much all day, every day here and a clean, bare teak deck provides a superior traction surface when it's wet.

-- Edited by Marin at 19:43, 2008-01-17

Troy- Keep the great pic's coming. We have FG decks but I am interested in how you apply your Non Skid. FF mentioned one process in an earlier post. I have some light "crazing" and am interested in repair options.
Steve

Here are a few pics of the new glass I have laid down. I think after filling all the holes with West System then laying down a new layer of glass the deck will be sealed.

I would have to really like a boat to buy one with teak decks. Generally, I try to avoid them. But they do feel great under barefeet as long as they are not too hot. I try to avoid all exterior wood. Like Troy said, I want to spend my time boating.

John---

The trick is to do boat maintenance WHILE boating. We've done everything from deck plug replacement to wood refinishing to rebuilding a toilet when we're out in an anchorage. Beats the hell out of doing the same job in the boring marina slip.

I cannot recall a single instance in the nine years we've owned our boat (except when the boat was in a yard for bottom painting or something) that maintenance kept us from taking the boat out.

Here are a few pics of the deck after I have filled and sanded it, still a long ways to go but I am making progress!!!

Looking good....keep us posted...