Picking a boat for overnights and long distance cruising (ICW, Great Loop)

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I have narrowed the choice of a boat down. I am a newbie to boating, a healthy & reasonably fit 74 and will be mostly single handling the boat.
My choices are From the following:

1990 Carved 38 with 454 closed system mercruisers

1998 Sea Day Sundance 330 with 5.7L closed system mercruisers

1987 Tollycraft 34 Sundeck Crusader 350 closed system

Initially, I will be using the boat in the Chesapeake Bay traveling to the various islands. As I become more comfortable and confident with my skills I will expand my cruising to the East coast up to New England and down the ICW to Florida. After a couple of years I would like to travel the Caribbean, and maybe venture to Cuba.

Any advice welcome.
 
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I can comment on Mercruisiers and the ICW in SC/GA. On the Mercs, those sized boats, you got singles or twins? Either way, you will love them IF you maintain them. Here is what I do: Take the outdrive off each year, lube it, align it, check bellows, replace zincs, pull prop, (props if you have the B3s - probably not on the Carver), replace impellers and seals every other year. I have one outdrive and pay $800-1200a year and have this work done at a major marina. I painted my Bravo3 Merc to help with corrosion since it sits in salt 24x7x365. On both of those boats, those props are probably at least 40 inches below the water line, great stability from those high-torque V-8s - particularly if either of those are twins. On the ICW, if you are new to boating, you will want a bow thruster (stern thruster may not fit with Mercs). In SC/GA part of the ICW, the tide changes about 6 to 7 feet (Calibogue Sound area), about every 6 hours - docking with a bit of wind, and tide movement can be difficult, particularly if assigned a dock perpendicular to the current and these boats have windage. Hope this helps.
 
You were ok till you mentioned Caribbean and Cuba. Maybe a trip to the Bahamas with a buddy boat. You really need to figure out or find out the fuel range with each boat. Chesapeake won't be a problem, but there are a couple of stretches on the Great Loop where there aren't fuel stops within 100 miles.

Ted
 
I like Tolly myself. I hate gassers on big boats. I have a lot of time with Mercruisers and their sterndrives. I would pull the boat and have complete service done on the outdrives if the boat you choose has them. If kept clean and maintained, the rubber parts and seals will last 5 to 7 years.



Longest distance on the loop without fuel currently seems to be 252 miles. I read a while back that Hoppies is closed.




Capitan John said:
The “no reserve” bottom line is: Your vessel must have a minimum fuel range of 208-miles on the most popular Tennessee-Tombigbee route to the
Gulf. It will also be imperative that you know your fuel burn rate ‘per hour’ (gph) as well as your mpg.
Sailboats will have to run under power on this leg of the voyage and smaller powerboats with outboard motors and small fuel tanks, must be able to
cruise 208-miles. So, additional fuel tanks or jerry cans may be required.
This 208-miles is from Hoppies Marina on the Upper Mississippi River to Paducah. The voyage consists of cruising a precise 208-miles with the first
152-miles at normal cruising speed with a light current. The last 48-miles however re slow hard miles against a very strong (2- to 3-mph) current. In a
sailboat or full-displacement hull vessel with a 6-knot maximum hull speed, this can the 48-miles can be a 12-hour voyage. Therefore, it is mandatory
you know your GPH (gallons per hour) fuel burn rate at cruise speed as well as your MPG (miles per gallon). While there are safe anchorages along
the way, this 208-miles is the maximum distance between fuel stops on the entire Great Loop.
Note: It should be noted that if Hoppies Marina, Mile 158.5 on the Upper Mississippi River is unable to provide fuel, is forced to close, or
unavailable for any reason; your fuel range will increase 44-miles to 252-miles. This is the distance from Alton Marina to Paducah. As regrettable as it
is, Hoppies has had more than its fair share of problems with both the weather and the waterway. Exposed as it is on the Mississippi, Hoppies ability to
withstand the troubles it has had over the past decade simply puts its future in jeopardy.
 
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All 3 boats are twins. I have looked into the possibility of installing a SideStep how thruster on whatever boat I purchase. From research it seems to be reliable and are attached to the now without drilling below the waterline.
Thanks
 
Before investing in a bow thruster, considering hiring a captain for some one on one training in docking with twins. Not in anyway disparaging your boating skills, but a boat in that size isn't difficult to dock with twins once you master the proper techniques. You might be amazed what can learn in a couple of hours with a good instructor.

Ted
 
I have narrowed the choice of a boat down. I am a newbie to boating, a healthy & reasonably fit 74 and will be mostly single handling the boat.
My choices are From the following:

1990 Carved 38 with 454 closed system mercruisers

1998 Sea Day Sundance 330 with 5.7L closed system mercruisers

1987 Tollycraft 34 Sundeck Crusader 350 closed system

Initially, I will be using the boat in the Chesapeake Bay traveling to the various islands. As I become more comfortable and confident with my skills I will expand my cruising to the East coast up to New England and down the ICW to Florida. After a couple of years I would like to travel the Caribbean, and maybe venture to Cuba.

Any advice welcome.

Is your inclination toward gas and toward stern drives due to pricing or did you have other reasons?

Range could become a factor for the boats you've indicated.

You're 74 and in your boating lifetime can't see all there is in the US and Bahamas so don't toss Cuba into the equation or the Caribbean. The Caribbean will greatly impact the suitable boat and will challenge your ability. Not for a newbie and not for the type boats you're leaning toward. You can have 30 years of great experiences without covering those areas.
 
My personal choice would be to go with a boat without outdrives. Boats with Inboards IMO are more maneuverable and less maintenance. Gasers, when driven at trawler speed can be relatively fuel efficient from my experience. Take your time and think it all through. By a boat for what you want it to do and where you want to go.
 
I have had many boats. Would never go back to sterndrives or gas for the type of use you are describing. Suitable for a lake but you will spend significant money on maintenance in saltwater and if you don't you will have failures and replacements. Very difficult to keep the outdrives clean and divers typically charge a premium.
Echo the others, if you have twins you really should not need a bow thruster.
 
No offense taken. As I said, I am a newbie and intend to get training so that I don't hurt myself or anyone else.
Thanks for the advice
 
I would prefer a diesel, but also want a boat that has an entrance thru the stern not over the side. I also prefer the built in steps instead of ladders to access a flybridge. I'm not as lumber as I used to be.
 
That is good to hear. Agree that steps may be better than a ladder at mist any age as long as they also have good handrails.
 
"After a couple of years I would like to travel the Caribbean, and maybe venture to Cuba."

None of the listed boats would be suitable for offshore cruising.

The "Thornless Path" style of harbor hopping would be required .

The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to ...

https://www.amazon.com/Gentlemans-Guide...Thornless/dp/1470146967
The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to Windward Paperback – March 14, 2012. ... This is the Tenth and last Edition of the popular directions for sailing south to the Bahamas and the Caribbean. For more than twenty years Van Sant repeatedly surveyed nearly 200 ...
 
FF, I really enjoy audio books, I can do things as I listen ie, make dinner, dust and more importantly pilot the boat at night.... Sort of like having company at the helm.
 
I've done a fair bit of single handing of boats up to 65 ft LOA. In addition to the fuel range others have mentioned the general setup of the boat is a consideration for single handing.

It is very important to be able to quickly and safely step from the steering station to your first line. The 65 ft T boat I ran was like that. A breeze to single hand. It didn't hurt that she had a nice shape. The widest beam almost at the wheel house door narrowing considerably towards the stern. She could be warped on or off the dock from a spring line midships tending fore or aft. More modern straight sided boats while providing more interior volume are harder to warp off the dock when the wind and or current oppose your efforts. They often require the spring to be at the bow or stern which puts you far from the steering station.

A boat that must be run from a fly bridge won't meet this requirement. A boat that has a squatty low door at the steering station that you must then wiggle onto a narrow side deck won't work very well. My 40 ft Tolly tri-cabin was like that. Damned hard to see anything from the main cabin, so fly bridge was the place to maneuver from. IF I could dock starboard side to, and IF dock cleats were placed such that my first line could be the midships line reachable from the steering station then I could pull it off.
 
Respectfully, I don't think that you have spent enough time thinking on how you would use the boat, to purchase one at this time. If you haven't read the Boat Search 101 thread, it is a great thread to read.

Cruising to the Bahamas, especially in a fast boat, is not that difficult for most boats with the proper weather window. From what I have read, however, the Caribbean is much different, given both the sea conditions and the distance.

From your list, the SeaRay Sundancer would be my choice. BUT, it would be my choice as driven by how I plan to use my boat. One difference between the Sundancer and the other boats listed is that it is an express cruiser and no flybridge. I can't speak to the other boats, but I don't think a Sundancer 330 requires a thruster, or that it would even be very helpful on this boat. There is a great, and very active, SeaRay owners group at clubsearay.com

If I was going to spend a lot of time in the Bahamas, I would be looking at a 2000ish Sundancer 380 or 400 with twin diesels. Fairly large fuel tanks for a boat of this type and decent efficiency for high hp engines.

Jim
 
The very first boat we owned in Florida was a I/O. At first it did well, but before long it was being worked on more than used. It got to the point where my wife told me to sell it because she would not go out on it anymore. We ended losing $$$$, they do not sell very well down here. Never again.

I have a friend who when asked about the use of outdrives in saltwater he refers to them as Alkaseltzers because they just fiz away.

That just our experience ymmv.
 
I have narrowed the choice of a boat down. I am a newbie to boating, a healthy & reasonably fit 74 and will be mostly single handling the boat.
My choices are From the following:

1990 Carved 38 with 454 closed system mercruisers

1998 Sea Day Sundance 330 with 5.7L closed system mercruisers

1987 Tollycraft 34 Sundeck Crusader 350 closed system

Initially, I will be using the boat in the Chesapeake Bay traveling to the various islands. As I become more comfortable and confident with my skills I will expand my cruising to the East coast up to New England and down the ICW to Florida. After a couple of years I would like to travel the Caribbean, and maybe venture to Cuba.

Any advice welcome.


Don't think I'd pick any of those for long-distance cruising. All are probably OK for the Chesapeake... but just now gas at our fuel dock is $.50/gal more than diesel... and diesel would give you better fuel economy on top of that... and diesel would be safer for running a genset overnight (for aircon and heat) if necessary...

There's a good use case for gassers, but I don't think "cruising to the East coast up to New England and down the ICW to Florida" and then eventually adding the islands is it.

Unless you're intending to start with something like these, then change later.

Single handing benefits from really good access to side decks and foredeck.

I would also shy away from something like a Sundancer or other express cruiser for long periods on board... simply because living in "the cave" gets old, for me. In fact, just waiting out a rainstorm down below got old pretty quickly...

-Chris
 
I would also shy away from something like a Sundancer or other express cruiser for long periods on board... simply because living in "the cave" gets old, for me. In fact, just waiting out a rainstorm down below got old pretty quickly...


This is an example of why one person really can't pick a boat for another person, as what we like may be different from someone else. ;)

I, personally, COULD do extended cruising on an express cruiser. I, would, however, have a full camper top made for those days where it might be wet or cold outside. :)

I would suggest to the OP, that sharing his budget with us, might help in getting useful advice.

Jim
 
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The Searay is the only one of the three which I would accept with gassers. It may even be trailerable which might be a good thing. The other two boats are too big and heavy for gassers. Definitely go with diesel power. Either one or two. Straight inboard, never I/O.

I have to echo all the others, you should spend a little more time considering what you want. You may also need to rethink the cost you are willing to make. I suspect that if you are considering actual boats as described they are priced anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 less than a similar diesel powered boat. There is a reason for this.

pete
 
This is an example of why one person really can't pick a boat for another person, as what we like may be different from someone else. ;)

I, personally, COULD do extended cruising on an express cruiser. I, would, however, have a full camper top made for those days where it might be wet or cold outside. :)


Very good point; whatever floats my boat may not be OP's cup of tea at all.

FWIW, we did have a hardtop and full enclosure on our express boat. No TV on the bridge, no coffee maker on the bridge, no dining table (or computer desk) on the bridge, only built-in helm seating so nothing really all that comfy.... etc.

-Chris
 
I would prefer a diesel, but also want a boat that has an entrance thru the stern not over the side. I also prefer the built in steps instead of ladders to access a flybridge. I'm not as lumber as I used to be.


Didn't mean to rain on a parade with my earlier post... so thought may be useful to offer an example of what I think might work better than the three earlier candidates.

I was about to suggest you check out an early Mainship 34, made during the years '78-'88 (approx).... not as a suggestion to buy, necessarily, but as a way to consider features that might better suit long distances (single diesel), variable weather (upper and lower helm), and single-handing (decent side decks), later models had a transom door, etc.

But then I noticed your "steps instead of ladders" -- which I fully understand and agree with -- and that influenced our last purchase decision, too!

So my next thought would be a Mainship 350/390, I think starting from approx 1997 or so. This model actually incorporates many of the suggestions owners of the original 34s fed back to the builder: wider beam, even wider (and protected) side decks, side door at the helm, stairs to the flybridge, etc. Again, I'm not necessarily recommending that as the boat to buy, but rather a boat to study to learn about useful features.

FWIW, we started with an '87 34 Mk III. Great boat, and I would even consider owning another today. But I think I'd see about maybe fabricating some kind of replacement stair system (circular?) to solve the ladder.

-Chris
 
Well, while we are suggesting, let me put in my 2 cents.
Take a look at an American Tug 34. It has satisfied my needs.
Realize it is a single stateroom boat, single head, with the traditional punishing convertible salon couch.
Also a single engine, Cummins 380 electronic engine. Bow and stern thrusters
The 34 is a well thought out, engineered boat and constructed boat.
Could it be better? Of course. Every boat owner adds, changes and modify their boat 'to make it my boat.'
We all hope, these changes and modifications will be appreciated by the next owner too.
 
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http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/mainship-40-sale-40283.html

Twin diesel and a great boat at a great price IMO worth checking out.

I agree, that boat should have been sold by now. I sent a message and told them I didn't think they were seriously trying to sell the boat. They agreed.

A key selling point is that they have been using the boat. After a boat sits for a long time, it needs extra work. They all need work, don't kid yourself.

I'd like to see you get out there and on your way, with your own boat, getting in trouble here and in foreign countries too.

They said "Delivery is negotiable". There is your first lesson. You can learn a lot from the seller, on the way, bringing home the boat.

There are boat docking simulators so you can practice on a computer. It's a training tool, kinda like a video game. Never tried one personally but it is worth looking into. Here's one:

https://theboatdocker.com/training/

There are yacht clubs up on the river over by Harrisburg. That might be a good place to start. Go hang out at the bar and talk to people. Maybe you can go for a ride with some locals, buy some gas and drinks.

Ask about the Power Squadron, get involved.

If you get a little experience, hands on, it helps to understand what your hired captain is trying to tell you.
 
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Since older Mainships was mentioned, here is a brochure from circa 1982 or 3.
I also started on an old Mainship model 1 (1978) and loved the boat.
 

Attachments

  • Mainship-Brochure.pdf
    2.8 MB · Views: 33
First there is a lot of lying going on about Express Cruisers, the boats that can't get no respect. The "Tug" series of boats, for example, are about as Tuggy as my Rav 4. Show me a genuine tug that can plane. So why call it a tug, because express cruisers aren't cool, but express cruisers they are. Other types of boats are E.C.'s but don't call themselves that, so now we have the "fast" or "swift" trawlers, which are really express cruisers in drag.

First the size of boat. In an article in Pacific Yachting roughly three years ago a woman wrote about what type of boats were suitable for Alaska cruising from southern British Columbia and northern coastal Washington. Her formula was simple, figure out the size you need, then subtract 10 feet. I would say for you a smaller boat single handing it as you get older would be a wiser choice. I suggest you really don't need anything over 30 feet.

The size of your dream. Rather than destinations which will be challenging in terms of distance and fuel, why not compromise with what you will be purchasing and modify the dream to destinations with shorter hops but more frequent. I've recommended this in the past here to others, once you have completed the loop, finishing in Chicago (reason why ahead), you can have your boat trailered across the country to either Washington State or British Columbia. If you trailer the boat, Chicago is a good ending point for the loop and the closest to the west coast, saves trailer fees.

From Washington or southern BC you can run up into Alaska and see incredible scenery, land based wild life, and ocean wild life.

Or you can use this company which isn't cheap, they used to drop off boats in the greater Vancouver area by my place. I would watch boats taken off, then others taken on for transportation.

Canadian Boats and Yachts Shipping - SV Business Group

Type of boat: I suggest either a traditional express cruiser boat along the lines of Cutwater (made on the west coast) or one of the tugs or fast trawler. Sometimes speed is safety. Imagine 60 miles away from home port safety and you have a two hour window to get home before the weather turns nasty. In an express cruiser with some models, you can do that journey in two hours, granted your wallet will be lighter due to fuel costs. But in a traditional trawler at 8 knots, you are looking at 7+ hours.

At one of the trailer companies for boat transportation, their cut off was just a little over 34 feet so a smaller boat will be cheaper and easier to move.

A smaller boat is cheaper in moorage fees, less maintenance bills, less fuel bills, easier to get into guest marinas as you travel. And a smaller boat makes it easier to use. If you get a single engine model, make sure it has or plan on installing a bow thruster.

Also a gas engine in a boat around 30 feet is a good way to go. If it were me with your plans, I'd find a $50,000 older boat in great shape and automatically replace the engine and leg if you get a stern drive. Mercury is now making new engines specifically designed for the marine environment, no longer using marinized auto engines which aren't good for boating for a host of reasons.
 
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"If it were me with your plans, I'd find a $50,000 older boat in great shape and automatically replace the engine and leg if you get a stern drive."

This works, but if you are not going to keep the boat many 30ft gassers can be had for under $10K , and if in modest condition can cruise the loop or inshore with the stock engine.Under $5K might require lots of cosmetics.

Most any boatyard can get and install an I-O in under a week , so taking off with the stock engine might be worth the effort of a great inspection and tune up.
 
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