Confined to Quarters

Greetings,
So what you're saying Mr. Baker is that it will be up to the moderators to determine what or what is not an unpopular idea? All well and good if an unbiased decision is made. I feel this will effectively destroy any debate on what might be considered an important but contentious issue.* Furthermore if someone "attacks/ridicules/disagrees" with something someone holds to be dear and true, this could very well be construed as a personal attack.


-- Edited by RT Firefly on Friday 9th of March 2012 08:29:12 PM

Eeber wrote:
Again, all the experts telling the new guy how to run his forum.
I'm not sure but I think he's up to about 26 forums now?
And don't worry folks, it won't change much, a forum is a forum.
He probably makes more in a day than anyone here has in a year.
This thread should be in the funny section.

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Eeber - Look at the thread title... This*is the funny section, err Funny Room! By utilizing the WWW rubber walls*are virtual reality... nothing more, nothing less! ***

Censorship???

OTDE

Never clicked on it, never opened it, never cared about it.

I just don't care what your non boating opinions are. The new owners should do away with it. This is a boating forum.

Mike
Palm Coast Fl.

Edit to add -

I would like to apologize for this post. I did not mean that your opinions are unimportant, only that I have so little time.

I have been out of sorts since Monday - 2 of my real world friends have died this week - the first when his plane crashed in Nevada, and the second in a car crash in Dade county FL.

Mike
Palm Coast FL.


-- Edited by Mike on Saturday 10th of March 2012 10:39:52 PM

Has anyone ever heard of the concept of "tryranny of the majority"?

Lord of the Flies?

or

"I won didn't I?

So otde has been moved to general discussion ?

If it isn't "there" it will be "here."

That other concept, the one about "unintended consequences" also applies.

Baker wrote:The silencing is done by the moderators...not the reporter.

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*Recent events show that the moderators react to input from those who feel they have been injured by what most reasonable people would see as valid comments.

If personal attacks and vitriol were really offensive to the moderators and the ownership then much of what seems to be acceptable would never remain online.

The fact is that what many of us see as a "protected class" apparently got its ox gored and couldn't handle it so took it to a personal level with at least one of the moderators until he caved in to their demands.

OTDE has never been "moderated" in a balanced or even fair and reasonable manner. There are countless examples of a double standard being applied.

This thread at this point shows that closing it is absurd unless all non boating comments are totally banned from the site. If OTDE is censored or eliminated the material will surface elsewhere. As it has.

RickB wrote:

If OTDE is censored or eliminated the material will surface elsewhere. As it has.

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I think you've nailed it. Kinda' like every boat needs a holding tank . . .

God knows there are no other places on the Internet where I can post my political rants.

And I had a pretty funny joke to post.* But, not here, not now.

Put it in humor, in this section. Gotta have fun!

RickB wrote:This thread at this point shows that closing it is absurd unless all non boating comments are totally banned from the site. If OTDE is censored or eliminated the material will surface elsewhere. As it has.

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That's true but there's a difference between threads that drift off topic into politically sensitive areas on the one hand and outright encouragement of that type of threads on the other hand.* I stay out of OTDE because I have strong political opinions and I'm not shy about sharing them.* I don't want that tendency on my part to colour any remarks I make elsewhere on this site.* I apply the same discipline to one other forum that I frequent which also has an off topic section that tends to get out of hand.* In that case the mods have gone so far as to create two off topic sections - one for "regular" off topic posts and the other for "controversial" topics.*

I already mentioned (more then once) in this discussion that we are probably going to use a setup similar to what Bob mentions in the post above from the other board he hangs on. We will have an Off Topic section and inside that will be a special section for the discussions that tend to get out of hand and rarely end well. To access this "Hot Topic" forum a member will have to "opt-in" to see it and agree (again) to abide by our community rules.

I'd like to note that I have heard and noted the comment that there have been inconsistencies in the way issues or members have been handled. We are working to address that. It's going to take us some time and even once we have our new processes in place we will still make some mistakes. Usually we can reverse the mistakes and learn from them.

Once we have the tools in place, our team will begin a process of discussing each issue on a case-by-case basis. Each issue will help us learn where we want to draw the line in the sand and help set a precedence for dealing with future issues (knowing that each one is still a case-by-case review). This learning process for our team can take quite some time but the final outcome is more consistency.

Keep in mind it's not our intent to sterilize this place. For example, one recent discussion we had was about the profanity filter and we are considering removing it. Each issue has to do with context. If I say "This morning some a**hole cut me off but then I passed him after he had a wreck", I think that's totally fine. If one member says to another member "You are just a conservative right winged a**hole" then that's not okay in my opinion.

It all comes down to one principle, respect. For the most part Trawler Forum is a respectful place where people don't have to feel fearful that someone will attack them or their views in a disrespectful way. In rare instances someone crosses that line and we will have a system in place to communicate with them letting them know exactly which comment was not okay, why and ask them to refrain from making similar comments. If they continue we will have a three strike process where we issue a strike for each blatant violation and if they get three, their account is banned (temp or permanent based on mod team discussions). We have found that holding everyone accountable will get the few trouble makers to stop fanning the flames and thus the respect level increases across the boards.

As I said before, please be patient while we figure out how to move from our current platform to vBulletin (no import script exists). Once converted everyone will have some learning to do and it might take a few months to really get settled. This is just a temporary hiccup of a very large passage but we will reach our destination and the passengers and crew will all enjoy the ride.


-- Edited by Andy R on Saturday 10th of March 2012 02:29:51 PM

Andy R - I like your projected processes - Get It On and Good Luck!

"You are just a conservative right winged a**hole" then that's not okay in my opinion.


What IS the "problem'?

As a conservative , being told I have missing chromosomes ,am a racist , sexist, hompphobe , bitter clinger, and lousy speller , ect ect has been going on for most of my life!

BY Presidents and 95% of the media .

In the 3rd grade "Sticks and Stones........ But names can never harm me" was taught.

ALL the Left has is name calling ,,, once the emotional reason for their GOD ,

the STATE , all seeing all ,powerful, all providing is shown to be a failure as a way of life.

Calling names does not win an argument , or matter to most in political discourse.

Pointing to Greece is more effective than most any personal attack.

FF wrote:
"You are just a conservative right winged a**hole" then that's not okay in my opinion.


What IS the "problem'?

As a conservative , being told I have missing chromosomes ,am a racist , sexist, hompphobe , bitter clinger, and lousy speller , ect ect has been going on for most of my life!

BY Presidents and 95% of the media .

In the 3rd grade "Sticks and Stones........ But names can never harm me" was taught.

ALL the Left has is name calling ,,, once the emotional reason for their GOD ,

the STATE , all seeing all ,powerful, all providing is shown to be a failure as a way of life.

Calling names does not win an argument , or matter to most in political discourse.

Pointing to Greece is more effective than most any personal attack.

Click to expand...

The problem is that perpetuating hyper-political rants and name-calling, whether it comes from the right or left--and whether you've grown used to it or not--is something many people want no part of. You can try to confine it to a "safe" place, but it usually infects the other forums/threads, as you are demonstrating.

It seems to me that this is now Andy's toy box, and we are all his guests.* He get's to set the rules, and if we don't like them we have the power to go play elsewhere.* He get's to decide how to run the place and should he make decisions that cause members to move out, he looses out too.* OTDE has never interested me in the least, so I stay out.* I come here to learn about boating issues and to share what little I think I know.* More than once I've been told I'm wrong and I accept that, admit my ignorance (if indeed I think I was wrong) and move on.* Should I still think I have a valid point I'll respectfully explain my reasoning unless it degrades to name calling at which point I'm done, I'll let the other members decide for themselves what to believe.* I'm quite active on another (non boating) forum that receives as much traffic in one day as this site gets in a month.* They have some strict rules that get enforced by reasonable moderators, and if they didn't the place would be total chaos.* Let's just see where Andy goes with this and if it turns out some don't like it, they have the power to leave and to look for a different forum to express their views.* One of the great things about this place is the depth of BOATING knowledge here, hopefully it stays that way......Arctic Traveller

Trawler training at <a href="http://www.arctictraveller.com">www.arctictraveller.com
</a>

Greetings,




-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 11th of March 2012 02:53:34 PM


-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 11th of March 2012 02:54:05 PM

This could be the answer, a OTDE makeover. Renamed the *'Double Secret Probation'Forum, with a non divisive logo.........
<table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100">*</td><td width="40">*</td></tr></tbody></table>
Provided of course the gun totting OTDE members don't take a pot shot at teddy, thinking he represents Theodore Roosevelt, the president who was in the same party of you know who!

*

Perhaps not, how about,
<table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100">*</td><td width="40"></td></tr></tbody></table>
a picture representing all*of our trawler aspirations OR.........* all those lefty *layabouts*sponging off the government getting food stamps / the fat cats of Wall street getting rich at the heoric*workers expense.

Or as the old folk classic goes 'The times they *are a changing'
<table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100"><table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="middle" height="30">*</td><td valign="middle" height="30"><table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100">*</td><td width="40">*=</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td width="40"><table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="middle" height="30">*</td><td valign="middle" height="30"><table class="genmed" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100">*</td><td width="40"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

RT Firefly wrote:
Greetings,

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Firefly Oh No!* Double Secret Probation - - > God Forbid... NOT THAT!!* Good one, RT

*

Art wrote:
Andy R - I like your projected processes - Get It On and Good Luck!

Click to expand...

*I agree.* good luck.*

Art wrote:RT Firefly wrote:
Greetings,

*

Click to expand...

Firefly Oh No!* Double Secret Probation - - > God Forbid... NOT THAT!!* Good one, RT

*

*TOGA PARTY!!!!!

is something many people want no part of

The solution to that would seem simple , don't open that section.

Sometimes politics does creep into other areas ,

today's Government mandated Ethanol gas has a very great effect on how the poison effects the fuel system and operation of every gas boat , its tanks filtering and fuel delivery setup.

The Dink or the dual 503 , its a ongoing huge problem , forced upon us for pure political reasons.

Not Double Secret, please ! ! ! !