Installation of ccv

Greetings,
I have a trawler with a naturally aspirated ADC 140hp diesel.
The crankcase breaths thru a hose coming off the valve cover that attaches to a covering over the intake manifold. Oil drips out of the cover and makes a mess of things at the back of the engine.
I am considering installing a Racor Closed Crankcase Ventilation (CCV) filter assembly and am curious if others have installed such a device.
Regards

I installed one on my John Deere 4045TFM75. It filters the vapor from the engine vent, separating out almost all of the oil, and directs the vapor back into the intake. There is an oil return line with a check valve that dumps the accumulated oil in the filter housing, back into the crankcase, after engine shutdown.

I chose not to connect the oil return line to the crankcase and have it dumping in a small plastic container. I may be paranoid, but didn't feel the 8 to16 ounces of oil collected between oil changes was worth the added failure point. I am extremely happy with the system. In addition to no oil dripping, there is no oily vapor coating stuff in my engine room. JD now offers this system as an option for their engines.

Ted

I put one on our Cummins diesel in our motorhome. It worked very well.

Thanks!

Hi Erben Renewal ,
I think we meet you a couple years ago when you passed through Paris Landing on Tn River.
I could use one on my old Perkins if it would work.

Not everyone is enthused about the Racor CCV filter, but I guess it is better than nothing.
https://mvdirona.com/2018/02/racor-ccv/

In the performance car world they are called Catch Cans. You can fab one up easily, or buy cheaply on Ebay etc...

Racors CCV system is good but as OC Diver mentioned, I would not let the accumulated oil back into the crankcase.

Crankcase vapors contain harmful compounds. I had the oil from a gas engined automobiles crankcase oil vapor separator (catch can) analyzed and it had harmful sounding compounds with long names. The crankcase vapor is composed of bypass gasses getting past the piston rings combined with the oil vapor.

Before positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) was installed in auto engines, engines needed rebuilding at 50,000 miles or less from the wear crankcase vapor precipitated.

I went the inexpensive route with my Lehman. I soldered two hose fitting to the top of a 1 gallon rectangular can (paint thinner can), filled it with brass wool to coalesce the vapor. Hose from valve cover to the can and another hose from can to fitting on the intake air filter housing. Stopped the air filter foam from getting oil soaked. I empty the can once a year.

I've been meaning to replace the paint thinner can with something more attractive but have not found anything suitable.

I made one for my previous boat from a 4 inch PVC pipe. Engine vent hose went in one fitting, yuck collected in the bottom in a piece of oil diaper, vented out the second fitting.
Sat against a stringer in the ER.

I have DIY'd them on several vehicles and installed a few aftermarket kits. They seem to work well. I drain them at every oil change. The most oil I get coming out over 3000-5000 miles is about two tablespoons.

jleonard said:

I made one for my previous boat from a 4 inch PVC pipe. Engine vent hose went in one fitting, yuck collected in the bottom in a piece of oil diaper, vented out the second fitting.
Sat against a stringer in the ER.

Click to expand...

Great idea using PVC pipe.

I experimented with various materials and configuration for a catch can on my car engine.

Metal cans dissapate the heat better, which helps the hot crankcase vapor coalesce quicker.

Tall vertical cans work better because it forces the vapor to travel further through the brass wool.

On my paint thinner can, one of the ports (inlet) is long enough to be within 1 inch from the bottom of the can and has a 90 degree bend at the bottom.. The vapor is blown against the can side which will produce more oil droplets.

The outlet port is short at the top of the can which forces the crankcase gas to travel up through the brass wool, coalescing additional vapor.

If additional coalescing is desired, a finned tube between the valve cover and can will cool the vapor significantly.

In a previous boat I had twin 6V53s that blew out a mist of oil from the air boxes. We took a couple of metal fuel filter canisters without the filters in them. Ran small hoses from the air box vents to the in and out fittings to the filter canisters. Then drilled a vent hole to let the air out of the filter canister. The canister had a drain valve in the bottom. The oily air would blow into the filter canister and the oil would stick to the canister and then drip to the bottom. After about 8 to 12 hours I would put a pan under the drain valve and would get 3 to 4 ounces of really nasty looking oil out of the canister. It really helped with the perpetual oily residue that was all over the engine room when I bought the boat.

Seaboard Marine offers Tony Athens version of a no nonsense CCV system, made with Cummins motors in mind but easily adaptable to most motors.
It works very well, and does not have any moving parts, nor does it return gunk to the crankcase.
For those that are loosing excessive oil out of the crankcase, I’d suggest that they could be overfilling the oil, basing their oil fill level solely on the dipstick marks.
My Cummins 6 BT takes 13 qts to fill to the full mark on the stick, however it will expel a quart through the breather over a few days running, then when it hits 12 quarts, it stabilizes, no longer expels oil, and runs quite cleanly.

This was pointed out to me about the beginning of PCV....slightly edited....



"Back in the old days when the crankcase vented to the atmosphere and did not return oil to the sump or vapor to the air intake, the engines wore out in 50k miles because crankcase vapors are full of harmful sounding stuff?
......engines with positive crankcase ventilation which dump crankcase vapor back to the air intake instead of letting it escape to the atmosphere last longer despite the fact that all those nasty vapors that used to go overboard are now returned to their birthplace?

psneeld said:

This was pointed out to me about the beginning of PCV....slightly edited....



"Back in the old days when the crankcase vented to the atmosphere and did not return oil to the sump or vapor to the air intake, the engines wore out in 50k miles because crankcase vapors are full of harmful sounding stuff?
......engines with positive crankcase ventilation which dump crankcase vapor back to the air intake instead of letting it escape to the atmosphere last longer despite the fact that all those nasty vapors that used to go overboard are now returned to their birthplace?

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Sorry, but there is an error in that statement that I can not correct;

The vapors do not return to the crankcase. The crankcase vapor is routed into the intake manifold and into the combustion chamber where it is burned during combustion.

On automobile engines, being a closed system, the ECM makes adjustments for the crankcase vapor entering the combustion chamber. All air ingested by the engine gets measured by the MAF including the crankcase vapor.

I would assume that the new electronic controlled diesels do the same thing.

I went even simpler on my Cummins 450C. Blowby hose ends right over the paper air filter, and it would drip on it. Not much, but made a mess of the filter, which is not cheap.

So I came up with the "Cummins Condom". Just take about a quarter sheet of oil zorb sheet and roll it up around the end of the hose, and zip tie it in place. Makes a tube that is open on the other end from the hose. Any drips are caught and absorbed. Nothing drips on the filter. I change it at oil change time. It is a slimy mess at that point.

Can also take pretty much any container and pack it with fiberglass from a torn up house AC air filter panel, and stick the hose in there. Makes a "coalescing" filter. Works as well as the high dollar commercial CCV systems.

Finally, a picture of my oil catch can made from a gallon thinner can.

Hose from valve cover to inlet fitting on can which has a dip tube going down close to the bottom of the can. The end of the tube is bent 90 degrees so the vapor is blown against the side of the can and coalesces some of the vapor into droplets.

The can is filled with bronze wool. The vapor travels up through the wool towards the outlet, creating more droplets. All the coalesced oil droplets are collected at the bottom of the can and drained periodically.

The remaining vapor exits the outlet and is routed back to the air intake, where it is sucked into the intake manifold and the combustion chamber and burned. The hose from can to intake has a bend at the top to force droplets back into the can.

A tall metal can works better because it increases the vapor path which enhances cooling and coalescing of the vapor and the can sides dissapate heat.

Compare the inlt and exit hoses for oil. The outlet hose should be a lot dryer than the inlet hose. If not, install a finned tube or taller catch can with more bronze wool.

If the air intake/cleaner still gets oily after installation of a catch can, a length of finned tubing is installed between the valve cover and catch can to cool the vapor further to aid coalescing. The tubing should point downhill to the catch can to allow droplets to collect in the can.

You don't want a low spot for oil to collect and block vapor migration.

In trying to cleanup the install on a nissan sd33 N/A engine (1986) which had the blowby pipe feed into the air filter intake center bypassing any filter, I settled on a ProVent 200 after much research. The contaminated oil is not being returned to the sump but collected in a length of hose with a drain tap on the end.



Regards

Our Lehmans came with some air compressor or welding (?) gear jury rigged on top of the valve covers and routing blow-by back to the air intakes. I’ve never totally understood their purpose because I don’t seem to collect a lot of oil, although a little does drip out occasionally.

Anyone know how these are supposed to work? Would it be better—as I gather from this thread—to route the hoses to a catch basin or can . . . assuming I keep these at all?

angus99 said:

Our Lehmans came with some air compressor or welding (?) gear jury rigged on top of the valve covers and routing blow-by back to the air intakes. I’ve never totally understood their purpose because I don’t seem to collect a lot of oil, although a little does drip out occasionally.

Anyone know how these are supposed to work? Would it be better—as I gather from this thread—to route the hoses to a catch basin or can . . . assuming I keep these at all?

Click to expand...

You just wanted to show off that ER to make the rest of us super jealous.




I have never seen a set up like that. I would pull the air filters and have a good look inside the intakes. If you see a heavy oily residue I would change over to a crankcase vent system using a tank. It's good to catch oil before it gets back to the intake. Some engines can get carbon build up on the back of the intake valves and in the intake manifold from blow by being suck back into the engine. If you don't see any oily residue inside the intake, I wouldn't change a thing.

Those look like air compressor water separators which are used by car owners to coalesce crankcase gasses in order to reduce the blow by.

Is there any oily residue in the outlets? If not they are working fine.

That's a fine looking ER.

I'd worry those compressed air filters might not handle the blowby flow. Might be fine, but could pressurize crankcase.

While running at cruise, loosen oil fill cap and see if any pressure is built up.

As for carbon build up on intake valves.

I don't know if diesels suffer the same carbon build up as gas engines but in the automotive world, they are having carbon issues with direct injection engines.

Previous throttle body injection and even carburetors introduced fuel upstream of the intake valves. The fuel flowing past the valve stems and the back of the valves washed any oily residue off preventing fouling.

On the new direct injection engines, the fuel is injected inside the combustion chamber. No fuel flows past the valves. Oily residue from crankcase gases via the PCV system, builds up on the valve stems, back of valves and intake ports. Heat from the engine bakes the residue onto the valves. Eventually the build up gets so thick that the valves will not open or close completely.

The carbon issue is starting to surface and auto manufacturers are keeping quiet about it. There's been engines rebuilt and replaced on warranty due to carbon build up. Some BMW dealers and independent shops are selling a walnut blasting cleaning of the intake.

Some auto manufacturers are placing an extra injector upstream of the intake valve to wash the valve. Others are scratching their heads.

ben2go said:

You just wanted to show off that ER to make the rest of us super jealous.

I have never seen a set up like that. I would pull the air filters and have a good look inside the intakes. If you see a heavy oily residue I would change over to a crankcase vent system using a tank. It's good to catch oil before it gets back to the intake. Some engines can get carbon build up on the back of the intake valves and in the intake manifold from blow by being suck back into the engine. If you don't see any oily residue inside the intake, I wouldn't change a thing.

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syjos said:

Those look like air compressor water separators which are used by car owners to coalesce crankcase gasses in order to reduce the blow by.

Is there any oily residue in the outlets? If not they are working fine.

That's a fine looking ER.

Click to expand...

Ski in NC said:

I'd worry those compressed air filters might not handle the blowby flow. Might be fine, but could pressurize crankcase.

While running at cruise, loosen oil fill cap and see if any pressure is built up.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the ideas and compliments. Syjos, that’s exactly what I was told they are. Ski, I’ll check the pressure. Lord knows how many miles and hundreds of hours they have on them.

Summit Racing

angus99 said:

Thanks for the ideas and compliments. Syjos, that’s exactly what I was told they are. Ski, I’ll check the pressure. Lord knows how many miles and hundreds of hours they have on them.

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The air compressor water separators handle a lot more air volume than an engines crankcase blowby.

The vacuum created by the engines intake assist in scavenging the crankcase gases out of the engine. Unless your rings are worn excessively, there should not be a lot of pressure out of the PVC exit on the valve cover.

The filter elements in the air compressor filters may be clogged with oil. Most air compressor filters are washable.

Ski in NC said:

I'd worry those compressed air filters might not handle the blowby flow. Might be fine, but could pressurize crankcase.

While running at cruise, loosen oil fill cap and see if any pressure is built up.

Click to expand...

Most of those are capable of flowing 20cfm or a bit more. I doubt that an engine produces that much flow through the crankcase.

syjos said:

As for carbon build up on intake valves.

I don't know if diesels suffer the same carbon build up as gas engines but in the automotive world, they are having carbon issues with direct injection engines.

Previous throttle body injection and even carburetors introduced fuel upstream of the intake valves. The fuel flowing past the valve stems and the back of the valves washed any oily residue off preventing fouling.

On the new direct injection engines, the fuel is injected inside the combustion chamber. No fuel flows past the valves. Oily residue from crankcase gases via the PCV system, builds up on the valve stems, back of valves and intake ports. Heat from the engine bakes the residue onto the valves. Eventually the build up gets so thick that the valves will not open or close completely.

The carbon issue is starting to surface and auto manufacturers are keeping quiet about it. There's been engines rebuilt and replaced on warranty due to carbon build up. Some BMW dealers and independent shops are selling a walnut blasting cleaning of the intake.

Some auto manufacturers are placing an extra injector upstream of the intake valve to wash the valve. Others are scratching their heads.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah. Diesels can get it really bad. Gas engines don't have carbon problems because gas is constantly flowing around the intake valves taking the carbon with it. The exhaust lves will carbon foul due to leaking valve oil seals and sloppy valve guides. The newer direct-injected gas engines are bad to carbon foul the intake valves. We own a Kia Soul that is having problems with that and it just rolled over 100,000 miles.



Here's a video about intake carbon build up in a diesel.




GDI engine problems.

If you Google direct injection carbon fouling, or oil catch can, you will get hundreds of articles, blogs and auto forum posts about it.

It gets really interesting when oil catch cans gets discussed as to which ones work and which ones don't. Catch can manufacturers start bad mouthing other manufacturers products and tout their $400 catch cans.

It is almost as fun as discussions on TF about single vs twin and displacement vs semi .

ben2go said:

Most of those are capable of flowing 20cfm or a bit more. I doubt that an engine produces that much flow through the crankcase.

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The 20cfm rating is likely at atmospheric pressure (STP). So at 10 bar, the volumetric flow rate is more like 2cfm.

Obviously he has had no issue with it, but still worth checking for pressure in the crankcase.

Ski in NC said:

The 20cfm rating is likely at atmospheric pressure (STP). So at 10 bar, the volumetric flow rate is more like 2cfm.

Obviously he has had no issue with it, but still worth checking for pressure in the crankcase.

Click to expand...