VW Marine Engines

Does anyone have experience with marine VW engines? Specifically, I'm looking at a boat with a 150hp VW marine diesel - very low hours. I understand VW went out of the marine engine business several years ago but this particular engine is apparently a marine version of their widely used TDI engine. I'm curious about the engine's reliability but more concerned about the difficulty getting parts. Would certainly appreciate any feedback.

There was an older line of VW diesel engines. Not sure if VW marinized them or a third party.


More recently Cummins had a partnership with Mercruiser where they marinized modern, common rail injected VW automotive diesel engines. Cummins pulled out of that partnership and Mercruiser now goes it alone.



Don't think they sell many though and I doubt if you will find mechanics who know anything about them in the US, much less parts availability.


David

I think the older pre tdi marine engines were called Phirrana (sp?)..
I’ve had the older diesels and a tdi in cars and they are pretty bulletproof.
Don’t know anything about the marinized versions.

Didn’t they make one called a Pathfinder? My uncle had one in his sailboat.

jleonard said:

I think the older pre tdi marine engines were called Phirrana (sp?)..
I’ve had the older diesels and a tdi in cars and they are pretty bulletproof.
Don’t know anything about the marinized versions.

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Bullet proof as long as you didn't throw the rubber timing belt that spec'd changing every 50K miles.

Pathfinder 100 hp is what I can remember in KK Manatees.

VW also supplies engines to Kohler for generators.

Donsan said:

Bullet proof as long as you didn't throw the rubber timing belt that spec'd changing every 50K miles.

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How would that translate to engine hours?

Are you sure? That's really interesting and would make me feel a bit better knowing that aren't totally divorced form the marine market.

BTW, your boat is magnificent!!!

Jmreim said:

Are you sure? That's really interesting and would make me feel a bit better knowing that aren't totally divorced form the marine market.

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Without knowing what year/model boat you're talking about, it's kinda hard to say anything specific about the engines. Google results do turn up a lot of discussions when searching for 'vw marine diesel' including Mercruiser using their TDI engines.

VW tried for a while to get the TDI established in the US market, never really took hold. I think they have a pretty strong presence in the EU.

Pathfinder marinized some of the VW and maybe some other engines. They are long since out of business, like well over 20yr ago.

TDI service and parts will be sketchy here stateside. May need to source parts from the EU.

2014 150 hp VW diesel

My current 1999 Perkins M90 isn't great on parts either

Donsan said:

Bullet proof as long as you didn't throw the rubber timing belt that spec'd changing every 50K miles.

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Ignoring preventive maintenance on any brand engine is a fool's game.
You roll the dice and you get what you get.

Small car engines adapted to marine use don't have a good history. they are often rated at high HP per liter unsuitable for heavy loads in boat use. You don't tell us anything about the size and weight of the boat or how the engines was run.

2014 150 hp marine VW Diesel with 135 hrs. in an 11,000# semi-displacement hull run at a very slow 7-8 kts.

wkearney99 said:

Without knowing what year/model boat you're talking about, it's kinda hard to say anything specific about the engines.

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The engine is important, of course, but more important is how a given boat maker implemented it in a given model and year. Some builders did a better job than others. This also opens up the discussion to wider aspects of things to 'look for' about that model. So don't leave that out when asking questions.

It's unfortunate the automobile size requirements of the engines led to them implementing a valve-interference design. One skip/break of that timing belt and you've got catastrophic damage to the valves, head and possibly pistons & cylinders. That's definitely a drawback to it.

Like anything, proper maintenance is key, but, oy, there's not a lot of other engines where loss of a timing belt/chain is going to risk being as disastrous.

Not all parts made for vehicular use are interchangeable, as marinized versions of the cooling systems, starter and alternators are going to be different. But for internals, the volume of car sales is your friend for parts availability.

I think the Greenline boats had VW marine in their first diesel electric boats.

Yup - that's what I'm looking at

The original Pathfinder engine were 1.6 IDI and DI non turbo car engines. They marinized them and were 42 or 50 horsepower. They were not bad engines but had a 4800 rpm redline like the more modern 1.9TDI. A company in the UK started using newer industrial VW diesel engines. I think Pathfinder imported some of these and sold them as their own. I can't remember the companies name but they did the marinizing much like Beta does with Kubota engines Westerbeke does with Perkins. I looked at an I/O version that was 140hp back in 2013 to repower a runabout. It was a 2.5L, IIRC. Parts and knowledgeable repair techs would be my concern with them.

jleonard said:

Ignoring preventive maintenance on any brand engine is a fool's game.
You roll the dice and you get what you get.

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The issue is the VW Rabbit TDI engine had a timing belt instead of a chain as a cost and weight saving measure. Due to the cost of replacing the belt and the bad reputation the belts got, most manufacturers have now gone back to chains. If you were unfortunate enough to lose or throw your timing belt, your TDI was toast. The manufacturers recommended maintenance interval was 50,000 miles which I would guess is about 1000 hours of use. Anyway, that was my experience with a 1978 diesel Rabbit.

What displacement is the engine? 140 hp sounds high for a small car diesel in a boat application. Cars run much lower used hp than boats.

Donsan said:

The issue is the VW Rabbit TDI engine had a timing belt instead of a chain as a cost and weight saving measure. Due to the cost of replacing the belt and the bad reputation the belts got, most manufacturers have now gone back to chains. If you were unfortunate enough to lose or throw your timing belt, your TDI was toast. The manufacturers recommended maintenance interval was 50,000 miles which I would guess is about 1000 hours of use. Anyway, that was my experience with a 1978 diesel Rabbit.

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All of the VW DI/IDI/TDI engines have belts. There was never a problem with them if they were replaced when due under the recommended service guide.

bayview said:

What displacement is the engine? 140 hp sounds high for a small car diesel in a boat application. Cars run much lower used hp than boats.

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The 1.6L and 1.9L variants in the US stopped shy of 140hp. I think the 2.0L made about that or a little more. The 1.6 and 1.9 diesels are the ones I am familiar with made before 2005.

ben2go said:

All of the VW DI/IDI/TDI engines have belts. There was never a problem with them if they were replaced when due under the recommended service guide.

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I have no facts upon which to agree or disagree. The main point I was trying to make is the engine would require an expensive maintenance action at roughly every 1000 hours that other Diesel engines do not.

Donsan said:

I have no facts upon which to agree or disagree. The main point I was trying to make is the engine would require an expensive maintenance action at roughly every 1000 hours that other Diesel engines do not.

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That's a lot of hours for a lot of people. Some it would be five years or more. While I agree that it will be more maintenance than a marine diesel engine, it shouldn't be much in the way of cost. It shouldn't take more than an hour to change the timing belt in a boat unless the front of the engine is really hard to get at. Set up in a boat, there's not usually a bunch of accessories to work around or remove like AC compressor or power steering pump. Parts are around $100-150.

I have run a Pathfinder 1.6 IDI 45hp in a planing skiff for like 1200hrs, in previous sailboat it logged about 4k hours. Before that a Rabbit, same engine, for 340k miles. I now have a 1.9 TDI 90hp, yr 2001, with 270k miles. All run timing belts. On the marine I changed at like 1000hrs, in the cars I change them at about 100k miles.

Never had a failure. On the marine engine, changing the TB is a piece of cake, no motor mount in the way, belt is right there. Change it, time the cam and the inj pump, maybe an hour or two.

Some larger TDI's use chains. I am not a fan of chains. The do wear, tensioners and guides wear, and that causes timing to change. And a complete MF'r to change as all the sprockets, guides and chain are in the oil bath and it takes a lot of disassembly to get to them. Your're not going to get 340k miles or 5000hr on a chain. Not going to happen. Belt sprockets don't really wear, just do the belt, do it right, and off your go. My TDI car is a bit of a PITA as it is tight in there. But I got it down to like 3hrs, no big deal.

And if the belt does break, (rare, but does happen), 90% of the time it bends valves and breaks cam followers, but does not damage pistons. Pull head, re-work it, install it, and off you go.

Of course "real" diesels use no belts, no chains, but GEARS. Gears don't fail (super duper rare), but are heavy and noisy. I know my Cummins 450 at least half the noise at low rpm is gear rattle. But who cares, they don't break.

ben2go said:

...Set up in a boat, there's not usually a bunch of accessories to work around or remove like AC compressor or power steering pump.

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There's still the serpentine belt for the alternator, and it's idler pulley, along with the water pump setup. But at least it doesn't have the automotive engine mount typically in the way.