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AlaskaProf

AlaskaProf

Guru
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
2,235
Location
US of A
Vessel Name
boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Make
RAWSON 41
Nearly every day I hear the Coast Guard (yes, you Canadians too) broadcasting a lengthy message advising that someone has a stick mic on Channel 16. Often repeated at quarter-hour intervals.

Would someone please explain to these public servants that the one guy who needs to hear this message is electronically blocked from ever doing so!
 
LOL...but it could possibly be their second station unit or handheld that is stuck
 
Or maybe someone will tell them about the messages and to occasionally check their mics.
 
I hesitate to pile on, as the USCG is great. However...
They could save a lot of bandwidth if they shortened their introduction a bit. After the second “hello all stations” I know who they are. And the word “break” is not shorthand for “ excuse me while I take a breath. And I don’t think anyone cares that CH16 is 156.8MHz.
On the other hand, I much appreciate that they are out there, so a little extra chatter on the radio just reminds me that they will be there if I need them.
 
After USCG calls on 16, boater are directed to channel 22A for Notice to Mariners. (I believe)

Also, radio check are now automated (repeats what you say) but, I do not recall the station.
 
It would be very helpful if the USCG transferred all non lifesaving conversations to 22 after establishing contact. When they start asking for a land based contact person and phone number, I so want to tell them,"Switch you non essential traffic to a working channel, 16 is for hailing and distress ".

Ted
 
Historically, some of the Caribbean islands used the VHF to order pizza.
In the Great Lakes, I have heard so much trash on 16, it made the station useless.
Way out west in vast flat plaines of the US, I am told the VHF channel 16 is utilized by some ranchers and farmer for communication.
 
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OldDan1943 said:
After USCG calls on 16, boater are directed to channel 22A for Notice to Mariners. (I believe)

Also, radio check are now automated (repeats what you say) but, I do not recall the station.
Click to expand...


Channel 28 I believe but I’ve tried it a couple times and so far no luck. Either I’m too dim to figure out to use it (likely) or I’ve never been in range.

Bill, I know what you mean about the stuck mic. I’ve often wondered the same thing about the utility of telling everyone there is a stuck mic. However, I’m happy to defer to the professionals of boats countries on this one.

Lately I’ve heard kids playing on channel 16. That really is annoying. I finally heard someone give a gentle reminder to have the adults secure and supervise their radios.

I do have one pet peeve that really annoys me. My experience has been that the Canadian Coast Guard are extremely good with their radio technique. Victoria radio always seems to be staffed by operators who have the ability to speed clearly, at an appropriate speed, and with the mic a good distance from the their mouths.

USCG Sector Puget Sound on the other hand are rather poor in general. Some do it really well, but other times you have to crank the volume way up just to hear them. It has nothing to do with the power of the transmitter but with how clearly they speak, what volume they use, and how far away they are from the mic. Sector Puget Sound could use some good training.
 
AlaskaProf said:
Nearly every day I hear the Coast Guard (yes, you Canadians too) broadcasting a lengthy message advising that someone has a stick mic on Channel 16. Often repeated at quarter-hour intervals.

Would someone please explain to these public servants that the one guy who needs to hear this message is electronically blocked from ever doing so!
Click to expand...

Actually, if they're smart (and I'm not saying they all are!) they'll wait until the open mic station goes off the air. Many (most?) radios will time out after a certain number of minutes of transmitting. Then, at least for a while, they can hear you. Whether or not they're listening is another story...

I helped the CG track down an open mic one day. I asked the operator if he noticed his radio was beeping. He was wondering where that sound was coming from. :rolleyes:

O C Diver said:
It would be very helpful if the USCG transferred all non lifesaving conversations to 22 after establishing contact.
Click to expand...

They do. There's a few pieces of information they have to get, first. Once that's done (and yes, in some situations it can take a while) they switch to a working channel. There's a checklist for this, and a reason for every step on the list. When it's you facing a distress situation, you'll appreciate that you're the #1 priority for that moment.

The one-size-fits-all approach isn't always ideal. But I do see where that's the best approach.
 
Same thing happens in the aviation context, of course, but the difference is that in the rare occasion when an inexperienced controller makes the "stuck mic" broadcast, he becomes an object of ridicule among his peers.
 
SailorGreg said:
I hesitate to pile on, as the USCG is great. However...
They could save a lot of bandwidth if they shortened their introduction a bit...
Click to expand...


You mean “this is United States Coast Guard, Sector Puget Sound... United States Coast Guard, Sector Puget Sound... United States Coast Guard, Sector Puget Sound...” is too long an introduction? Say it isn’t so!
 
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JDCAVE said:
SailorGreg said:
I hesitate to pile on, as the USCG is great. However...
They could save a lot of bandwidth if they shortened their introduction a bit.../QUOTE]


You mean “this is United States Coast Guard, Sector Puget Sound... United States Coast Guard, Sector Puget Sound... United States Coast Guard, Sector Puget Sound...” is too long an introduction? Say it isn’t so!
Click to expand...

When I was a supervisor at Seattle Approach, we had a visit from a bunch of petty officers from VTS at Pier 36. The first question was "where do you plot them?"

the idea that there could be an arrival every 60 seconds and a departure every 75 was a scale they were not prepared for. And that the pace required relying on memory.

I suspect they are not schooled in the scarcity of bandwidth and the need for conservation.
Click to expand...
 
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AlaskaProf said:
JDCAVE said:
...the idea that there could be an arrival every 60 seconds and a departure every 75 was a scale they were not prepared for. And that the pace required relying on memory.

I suspect they are not schooled in the scarcity of bandwidth and the need for conservation.
Click to expand...

I think this is the key difference.

I had the opportunity to fly in a small plane with a couple of private pilots, in a back seat with headphones on. I, with a boating background, not aviation, was impressed by the brevity of all the comms. I could also clearly see the need, as we transited NYC air space.

The whole thing about saying the call sign of the called and calling stations three times is because, many times, no-one is really paying much attention to the radio. "Hey, was that for us?" "Who was that, anyway?" Boaters don't wear headphones and there's often a lot of ambient noise.

Most experienced watchstanders bend the rules and only repeat twice. It does start to get tedious in busy harbors, where the commercial captains tend to adopt a quicker tempo in their comms.
Click to expand...
 
It's real easy why it all doesn't make sense.


Till the FCC and International Maritime Agencies change radio procedures, the USCG will follow them EXACTLY, to be a good example (no matter how stupid it seems) and to keep the lawyers happy.


The reason the USCG does things the way they do has been shaped by lawsuits probably more than any other reason.


I now one of the last big ones was awarded the way I remember it...as not because the USCG did anything considered negligent by human standards or common sense....it was considered negligent because they didn't follow their own procedures.


You want to hear a difference? Listen to radio communications from USCG aircraft that have been expected to use brevity by the FAA. They are a sharp contrast to the USCG "specifically trained and closely monitored" radio operators on ships and land stations.
 
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psneeld said:
You want to hear a difference? Listen to radio communications from USCG aircraft that have been expected to use brevity by the FAA. They are a sharp contrast to the USCG "specifically trained and closely monitored" radio operators on ships and land stations.
Click to expand...


You have been in a lot of different areas, do have any idea as to how and why the transmissions from Sector Puget Sound are so inconsistent? Some guardsmen come through loud and clear, and others are simply clear.
 
OldDan1943 said:
Also, radio check are now automated (repeats what you say) but, I do not recall the station.
Click to expand...

Automated Radio Check Service uses one of VHF Channels 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 84. Simply tune your radio to the proper channel for your community.
 
Shrew said:
Automated Radio Check Service uses one of VHF Channels 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 84. Simply tune your radio to the proper channel for your community.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. SMILE
 
=dhays;786443]You have been in a lot of different areas, do have any idea as to how and why the transmissions from Sector Puget Sound are so inconsistent? Some guardsmen come through loud and clear, and others are simply clear.[/QUOTE]
Back in the old days....


A lot of regional USCG units were under the command of USCG AirSatations.


It was hard to argue that USCG Aviators didn't have a lot of operational experience. I used to try to train the radio operators to stay within guidelines but be part of the "first responder" mentality...which included feedback on just how they came across both verbally and electronically. That meant constant checking of self and equipment. When operational control was transferred to "sectors"....I hate to point fingers...but things definitely changed



The ancients handled a lot from the local station...the Coastie on the radio used to have beers with many of their customers. Gradually through the sake of budgets and efficiency ..things changed....from protocols to proficiency at some levels.


Look at it as buying something from a hardware store 50 years ago and ordering something from Amazon.


The scary thing for me is back in the day when I didn't know crap, my senior aviators with an unlimited credit card and a working helo could have saved the world from almost anything.


By the time I retired, bueracrats and legal had changed the rules



The average Coastie would still love to save the world...and many are smarter and better than me and my fellow Coasties...it's just a different world. Priorities have shifted



Can I definitively say why some USCG radio operations are inconsistent? Not with any certainty ...but I doubt it's all the equipment these days....though in a given region, if the same operator is of different strengths....it could be repeater towers and/or your location in reference to them.



If the person, sometimes sector responds, but sometimes local stations break in....sorry, but that's a real crapshoot how to answer.




And in perspective....no better or worse than throughout the USCGs history. ..just different times on both sides of that mic.
 
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Shrew said:
Automated Radio Check Service uses one of VHF Channels 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 84. Simply tune your radio to the proper channel for your community.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately unavailable on Lake Superior. :cry:
 
CaptTom said:
AlaskaProf said:
I think this is the key difference.

I had the opportunity to fly in a small plane with a couple of private pilots, in a back seat with headphones on. I, with a boating background, not aviation, was impressed by the brevity of all the comms. I could also clearly see the need, as we transited NYC air space.

...
Click to expand...


The absolute limit to this method is receive only air traffic control. Typically used at flyins and the like, where the orders are based on visual feedback control only. I got in trouble once because I didn't know what a 1939 Bianca whatever looked like a mile ahead of me. :facepalm:
Click to expand...
 
CaptTom said:
AlaskaProf said:
I think this is the key difference.

I had the opportunity to fly in a small plane with a couple of private pilots, in a back seat with headphones on. I, with a boating background, not aviation, was impressed by the brevity of all the comms. I could also clearly see the need, as we transited NYC air space.

The whole thing about saying the call sign of the called and calling stations three times is because, many times, no-one is really paying much attention to the radio. "Hey, was that for us?" "Who was that, anyway?" Boaters don't wear headphones and there's often a lot of ambient noise.

Most experienced watchstanders bend the rules and only repeat twice. It does start to get tedious in busy harbors, where the commercial captains tend to adopt a quicker tempo in their comms.
Click to expand...


The real difference....


As we used to say...when you live in a world happening at greater than 120 knots (or more) urgency seems to become more important than at 12 knots.


There were many variations of that theme but the gist is there.
Click to expand...
 
Someone has mucked up the QUOTE system. I did not post about "my opportunity to fly in a backseat..."

not with 2200 hours PiC.
 
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Yeah...sorry Alaskaprof....all I did was hit quote for Capt Tom's post and popped out like that.
 
The problem here with Sector Detroit is that the people training the watchstanders have taught them that they need brevity. The watchstanders try to speak so quickly that I cannot understand half of what they say and I have been working radios for 50 years. It would be better to speak clearly and distinctly and if it takes 5 seconds longer, then so be it. Better to have the broadcast understood than to be quick.
 
While running in an off-shore Predicted Log contest,where every second counts, we were forced to slow down by the CG. They wanted to know if we had witnessed a boat collision, we had not, so they let us go. Slowing down was enough to end any thoughts of a first place finish. Our mistake was monitoring channel nine, the designated channel for the contest and not having the radio scan both channel nine and sixteen. That has since been corrected.
 
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