Radar reflector

This morning, while westbound in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, i n patchy fog, I was warily working my way through swarms of little, 16 to maybe 22 foot sportfishers. I was pleasantly surprised that most of the little buggers made a decent primary radar target at about 3 miles.

I couldn't perceive characteristics that made some weak to invisible, but the most remarkable was a 19-footer who didn't show up til a quarter mile. As he passed, I noted he had one of those cylindrical reflectors, i.e. a 24-inch plastic tube with little metal vanes inside. It was mounted on his bow pulpit like a jackstaff.

I thought those had to be mounted horizontal and well above deck.

ben2go said:

I thought those had to be mounted horizontal and well above deck.

Click to expand...

Every one I've seen was mounted vertically, but I did some reading, and vertical is the manufacturer's ' intent. Height improves range, of course, but isn't really part of the functionality.

They seem to be a bad bargain, even at $25/

They were showing up so well because most were metal boats. IKt's the low profile wooden and fiberglass that are hard to spot.

Practical Sailor published a test of various radar reflectors, years ago. That unit finished last.

koliver said:

Practical Sailor published a test of various radar reflectors, years ago. That unit finished last.

Click to expand...

Yup. Not a good reflector and located at the worst possible location.

AlaskaProf said:

Every one I've seen was mounted vertically, but I did some reading, and vertical is the manufacturer's ' intent. Height improves range, of course, but isn't really part of the functionality.

They seem to be a bad bargain, even at $25/

Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up. I agree it's not worth the effort for such little return even at $25.

Russell Clifton said:

They were showing up so well because most were metal boats. IKt's the low profile wooden and fiberglass that are hard to spot.

Click to expand...

I'm going to line my boat with aluminum foil and put a foil hat on it. LOL




I'm planning to use some foil-faced insulation in several places on my boat. I wonder if that would be picked up on radar. Some will be horizontal like in the cabin roof. Some will be vertical like around the engine box. Being that my boat is small, I wonder if that would be enough to bounce the signal around and give the transmitting boat a good image. Nothing better than being around 30 feet long and giving off the radar signature of a small destroyer.

Russell Clifton said:

They were showing up so well because most were metal boats. IKt's the low profile wooden and fiberglass that are hard to spot.

Click to expand...

Interesting possibility. I didn't "filter" my observations for that variable, but there was an awful lot of plastic out there.

Fortunately, the vis was about half a mile, they were all trolling and I was poking along at seven knots. No surprises

T-Tops, towing arches and outboards all give pretty good returns....the newer (post 2005) RADARs on small boats are pretty impressive themselves.

I conducted a radar reflector test a few years ago at the Brownsville marina during a yacht club cruise when the dock discussion turned to radar reflectors. And of course who had the best.

To settle the argument, I had a kid take a variety of radar reflectors out in a 10 foot fiberglass dinghy, one at a time. We had him motor out one mile, slowly and stop at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 mile. We had him hold the reflector up in the proper orientation when stopped.

We were on Sandpiper and used both the 4 kw and 11 kw Furuno radars, one at a time.

The best was the Rozendal Associates Tri Lens followed by the Echomax and Davis Echomaster. The Tri Lens was noticeably more visible consistantly as the dinghy bobbed and turned in the waves. The Echomax and Echomasters image on the radar would get smaller and bigger but never disappeared.

The Mobri and Firdell disappeared completely once in a while and their outlines on the radar were noticeably smaller as the image grew and shrank.

Those were the only reflectors available. There were several participants in the test looking at the radars, voting on the results.

The Davis Echomaster was the one that most club members carried on their power boats. Mobri and Firdell was second most popular and there were two Echomax and one Tri Lens.

We had the kid repeat the test with no reflector aboard the dinghy. The radar picked him up fine but the dinghys radar image was small and disappeared for multiple sweeps of the radar as he got further out.

Practical Sailor conducted a more thorough radar reflector test a while back and the results were similar.

There have been at least 5 radar reflector tests, some of them quite scholarly and done with very expensive DOD equipment comparing the returns on the water and in an anechoic chamber. At least one in response to the run-down and loss of a vessel including all on board. The result of all of them is that most of the radar reflectors sold are pretty much useless. Only a very large microwave lens type meets the SOLAS regs (barely), do not depend on the smaller ones and particularly the little cylindrical ones to do anything at all. If you want to be visible, you need a transponder such as the SeaMe or EchoMax. These are active transponders, receiving then retransmitting a response. Or consider yourself to be invisible, the safest policy.

We have a Lundberg Lens type of reflector on our boat. It was top rated by Powerboat Reports when it was in business. I have not seen our boat on radar so I am not sure how well it works, but I guess it can’t hurt.

Comodave said:

We have a Lundberg Lens type of reflector on our boat. It was top rated by Powerboat Reports when it was in business. I have not seen our boat on radar so I am not sure how well it works, but I guess it can’t hurt.

Click to expand...

Friend and I drove each others boats so we could see what our boats looked like on radar. I upgraded my radar reflector shortly after the experiment.

I know this is an old thread, but we have a new to us boat and we are contemplating whether or not we need to install a radar reflector. The hull is fiberglass, but the pilot house is aluminum, and fairly high off the water. Any thoughts on whether we need a reflector? I realize the litmus test would be to get out there, and look at my boat with other people's radars as noted above, but that's probably not happening for a while . . .

Just get on the VHF and ask a passing boat how well you show up on radar. Doesn't even need to be a foggy day as most boats have theirs on all the time.

slowgoesit said:

I know this is an old thread, but we have a new to us boat and we are contemplating whether or not we need to install a radar reflector. The hull is fiberglass, but the pilot house is aluminum, and fairly high off the water. Any thoughts on whether we need a reflector? I realize the litmus test would be to get out there, and look at my boat with other people's radars as noted above, but that's probably not happening for a while . . .

Click to expand...

If you decide you need/want one, I have a good one from my sailing days. I would probably still use it but don't have a convenient way to mount it.

This type:

https://www.amazon.com/Davis-Echoma...ector&qid=1625056213&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-22

Russell Clifton said:

Just get on the VHF and ask a passing boat how well you show up on radar. Doesn't even need to be a foggy day as most boats have theirs on all the time.

Click to expand...

Russell, good point, sometimes the simple solutions are the best! I just didn't think of that. I'm going to blame it on not having my morning coffee yet when I posted!

Backinblue, thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it, but will try Russell's idea first!

I'm guessing you're fine w/o one, but I have found it is a good "peace of mind" item to have in the fog, especially when you can hear but not see a large commercial boat in the distance.

I've been using these for years on my hi flyer buoys, never any problem picking them up at six miles with them eight feet off the water, 12 inchs and cost just over twenty bucks

We had a Lundberg Lens type on the boat we just sold. Powerboat Reports, out of business now, did a test report on reflectors and the Lundberg Lens type did the best in their testing. But it was a bit pricey.

The metal house will do just as well as any manufactured reflector imho.

backinblue said:

If you decide you need/want one, I have a good one from my sailing days. I would probably still use it but don't have a convenient way to mount it.

This type:

https://www.amazon.com/Davis-Echoma...ector&qid=1625056213&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-22

Click to expand...

I bought one of these at a nautical flea market for $5. Then I bought two cans of the rubbery spray paint, black. Several coats of paint later (both cans) the recipient has a black anchor ball. Additionally, when not displayed it resides in a locker topside. It should reflect well...

So a twofer. Anchor ball, and radar reflector. Just throwing this out there...

Great idea if you are someone who uses an anchor ball. I never have. Doesn't mean I shouldn't.

High Wire said:

The metal house will do just as well as any manufactured reflector imho.

Click to expand...

A flat surface regardless of composition isn't necessarily a good reflector unless oriented to directly reflect the beam back to the receiver, that's why there are multiple angles to a standard radar reflector.

backinblue said:

Great idea if you are someone who uses an anchor ball. I never have. Doesn't mean I shouldn't.

Click to expand...

Anecdote: a Florida watercop came to Seaweed. He was polite, etc. When I pointed out I'm old and follow the rules, then referred to my displayed anchor ball... well, there were no further inquiries. There was no inspection, though I did ask him if he'd like to see my Seaweed.

I believe the anchor ball made a difference in the level of inspection I experienced. I've only seen a couple anchor balls displayed though so I'm definitely in the minority. Consider one someday. It might make an inspection go easier. Plus you're supposed to (AND it would be nice to see another one on occasion!)

janice142 said:

Anecdote: a Florida watercop came to Seaweed. He was polite, etc. When I pointed out I'm old and follow the rules, then referred to my displayed anchor ball... well, there were no further inquiries. There was no inspection, though I did ask him if he'd like to see my Seaweed.

I believe the anchor ball made a difference in the level of inspection I experienced. I've only seen a couple anchor balls displayed though so I'm definitely in the minority. Consider one someday. It might make an inspection go easier. Plus you're supposed to (AND it would be nice to see another one on occasion!)

Click to expand...

Don't know if it's true, but someone here posted a story about a reckless jetskier speeding through and anchorage in daylight and hit someone's anchor line and got injured. He won the lawsuit because the boater didn't have an anchor ball displayed. I could see that happening.

Like I said, I've never used one and maybe have seen 1 or possibly 2 in my life, not that it makes it right.

Fish53 said:

I've been using these for years on my hi flyer buoys, never any problem picking them up at six miles with them eight feet off the water, 12 inchs and cost just over twenty bucksView attachment 118939

Click to expand...

Interesting that a welded aluminum reflector made for the fishing industry is less than one-quarter the price of a crappy thin gauge take-apart one vended to recreational boats...

I have one of the cylindrical type reflectors. Very top of the mast above the TV antenna. I’ve been told the boat shows well on others radar.

janice142 said:

Anecdote: a Florida watercop came to Seaweed. He was polite, etc. When I pointed out I'm old and follow the rules, then referred to my displayed anchor ball... well, there were no further inquiries. There was no inspection, though I did ask him if he'd like to see my Seaweed.

I believe the anchor ball made a difference in the level of inspection I experienced. I've only seen a couple anchor balls displayed though so I'm definitely in the minority. Consider one someday. It might make an inspection go easier. Plus you're supposed to (AND it would be nice to see another one on occasion!)

Click to expand...

But should you really be fearful of an inspection? I suspect someone like you would everything required and up to date. If an inspection found something that you should address that you didn't know about, isn't that a good thing?

Northern Spy said:

Interesting that a welded aluminum reflector made for the fishing industry is less than one-quarter the price of a crappy thin gauge take-apart one vended to recreational boats...

Click to expand...

The one I have is probably the type you are referring to. I don't consider it crappy or thin, and the take apart option is helpful on a small boat with limited space if you don't use it all the time. Mine held up for many years of sailing with no issues. Seems sturdy to me. Probably not as sturdy as a welded one but for it's intended purpose, they are fine IMO. There are some very cheap "emergency" reflectors that are like cardboard covered in foil, but I don't think that's what you are talking about especially for the price.