Newbie looking for a long range dive boat

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.

I'm at the very early stages of looking for a boat to be used to tour around Asia and the Pacific. I will be sight seeing with a strong emphasis on diving (especially the shipwrecks and big walls scattered around the region). Im in Northern Queensland, Australia so the learning process will take place from there then the wish list includes Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Indonesia, Truk, Bikini Atoll, Solomons etc. Most of the dive areas are quite remote so I will need a vessel that permits me to be self sufficient for both the voyage there and once at the dive sites.

I have absolutely no boating experience beyond being a passenger on other people's boats.

On the question of sail vs trawler, I'm leaning towards trawler. I'd expect the electrical, storage and weight requirements of a couple of technical diving kits, that are being used regularly, to be beyond a monohull yatch and a multihull is beyond my budget. I'll be carrying about 10 tanks, a compressor and a few G/J cylinders for mixed gasses. I also have a background in maintaining stationary and mobile equipment so would expect to make fewer (costly and damaging) mistakes with a diesel powered vessel vs a yacht for with I have no experience in the use, maintenance and repair of.

Coincidently every long term diving live aboard I have been on has been motor driven rather than sail.

I'd expect to be single handed some of the time. Yachts around 45ft seem to be the size that can be easily handled alone. Is this the same for motorised vessels? Vessels of this size also seem to have a range of >2000 Nm which is also about what I'm looking for.

I have time in my hands so speed is not a primary concern. 100 to 150 Nm per full sailing day would be fine. At this speed, full displacement hulls seem to be much more economical on diesel

I'd appreciate any general comments from those with more experience than myself. Obviously, the opinions of anyone who has set up a dive mothership or live aboard would be great.

Best Regards, Mike.

I don't think that the recreational trawler type of boat is going to work for you. The cockpit is too small. You need room for your ten tanks lined up on the sides as well as room for divers to rig up.

Look for a work boat with a small cabin and big cockpit.

Maybe a true commercial fishing trawler with the trawling equipment removed would work. These are often pretty rough boats though.

David

A trawler style boat sounds like it would fit your needs on many levels, except for the gear aspects as noted by DJM. We use ours for typical coastal cruising, but also to fish and free dive, but no compressed air tanks. I also carry 20 ft. Long outrigger canoe on the flybridge, so the 8 ft long outrigger portion (ama)goes in the cockpit for transport. The cockpit on my boat can therefore get fairly crowded, More-so if you add in all of the gear you want to carry. Most people with your intended mission use a sport Fisher with a larger cockpit. Mikelson, Riviera, etc. You can make anything work, it’s just a matter of what compromises you are willing to make.

You are going to need visibility for the times you need to live boat. You also need good and quick communication between tenders and safety divers along with a decent sized area to seat and prepare divers. That’s why sportfishers often fit the bill as they are built precisely for that high visibility. But built for speed, they likely won’t have the range you are talking about in the small sizes. Realize that 2000nm puts you near passagemaker category of power boats and most don’t try for that range.

As said, anything you can climb over the side will work, but maybe not ideal, especially on days where you have a 3-4 foot chop that came up in the couple hours after putting divers in the water.

Btw I took part in a lot of mixed gas diving prior to 2000 when a lot of things were still being figured out. I’ve spent a lot of time on charter boats running surface management, wrote safety policies and personally put divers 300+fsw on wrecks in active traffic lanes. I tend to have some strong opinions on what is required to keep people safe, earned during a time where our sport lost too many good people unnecessarily. You don’t want to ever be in a position of dealing with the outcome of the worst possible scenario.

It sounds like you are going to be running significant dives in very out of the way places. You are in a sport with a high probability of needing access to a decompression chamber, in areas where immediate transport to one may not be available. How will you handle that?

For your requirements, I think you may be looking for a work boat around 55-60 feet. Just a guess, but you have some requirements that will conflict with a lot of traditional boats.

I’m interested to hear OCDivers thoughts as he has a lot of experience, running charters and live aboard cruising.

Many thanks for the information.

The sport fishers, while beautiful boats, don't give me the range that I need and anything large enough to hold and power all the gear I will take is crazy expensive.

I've found some working or converted charter (as opposed to full commercial) vessels that seem to get pretty close to what I'm looking for: '000s of litres of fuel, open deck space, at least some cabin space.

For the semi displacements I have a couple of concerns. They are typically powered for speed rather than range with ~2x400hp. How do these hulls and drive trains handle being operated continuously at very light loads when the preference is fuel economy? Also, how do these hull types handle open water/passage making?

Ghost, I share your concern over safety protocols. Practicalities may not permit a chamber on board but if I find a decommissioned expedition vessel going for a song, who knows. ?

For reference, I've attached links to representative samples of what I've found. While I'm not considering these actual boats they indicate the path that I'm thinking. Again, comments and reality checks are most welcome. ?

Thanks.

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1971-glanville-co-steel-hull-motoryacht/SSE-AD-4807017?_ga=2.170881448.929833390.1563857337-1241574760.1562213945

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1987-westcoaster-charter/OAG-AD-16321453?_ga=2.11680444.929833390.1563857337-1241574760.1562213945

Only one word for this: catamaran; either power or sail.

Of course, if distances are vast; perhaps use a 12' RIB as a tender to the mother ship. How many divers on a trip are we talking about?

I'm looking myself for such a beast. (dive barge)

Gonediving, what you are looking to do is a dream that I have always had and I am sure that many other have as well. While my experience on different styles and sizes of trawlers is limited, I have been on numerous dive boats. The suggestion I would make would be to visit dive company websites, both day trip and live aboards, see what type of boats they use and the layouts. This may give you a nice visual approach since a lot of companies, especially the live aboards, like to post pictures of the boats they use. Hope this may help you.

Dive & live aboard trawler

Everything on a boat is a compromise. So if two diver max, & 4 people max live aboard here is what we use.

Kadey-Krogen 42 or 48 would work fine for you & you needs.

Lazarette can easily hold a lot of tanks if you set it up for that & lay them on their sides. The rear cockpit is OK for a couple divers & the central aft through door is good for easy swim step access.

Room for a small dive compressor on board as well to refill your tanks.

I am a SCUBA diver & dive off my KK42 swim step that we put a diver boarding ladder on & it works well for ingress & egress.

Also great live aboard accommodations & the range is fantastic as easily go's way past you 2,000 miles range needed.

Something to think about.

Good Luck.

Alfa Mike

Gonediving, I would forget about semi-displacement boats. That eliminates about 90% of the recreational market. Same thing with that second boat you indicated - that is a charter boat. Perhaps the heavy steel first boat you mentioned would work. Definitely the 42 Kroger as mentioned.

GoneDiving said:

I have absolutely no boating experience beyond being a passenger on other people's boats.

On the question of sail vs trawler, I'm leaning towards trawler. I'd expect the electrical, storage and weight requirements of a couple of technical diving kits, that are being used regularly, to be beyond a monohull yatch and a multihull is beyond my budget. e.

Click to expand...

I'm concerned when I read you have no experience, need 2000 nm range and will often be single handing. What are your plans for training?

You say a multihull sailboat is beyond your budget. Yet you seek a lot that would seem to push the budget limits. What is your budget?

GoneDiving said:

For reference, I've attached links to representative samples of what I've found. While I'm not considering these actual boats they indicate the path that I'm thinking. Again, comments and reality checks are most welcome. ��

Thanks.

Click to expand...

The first one if you want relative comfort as a live aboard for you and companions, though she is starting to bleed so will likely need buckets of money thrown at her soon.


https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/...48.929833390.1563857337-1241574760.1562213945

This was posted a few days ago
If we were in the market now it'd tick several boxes.
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boat...ht-long-range-cruiser-grand-banks-style/64760

BandB said:

You say a multihull sailboat is beyond your budget. Yet you seek a lot that would seem to push the budget limits. What is your budget?

Click to expand...

The links provided indicate around $150k

Mike,


Was just looking at Janaconda profile pics. His just happened to be one of the ones at the top of the screen. It's a Norhavn N46 motor sailer. Appears to have added a swim platform on the back that houses his dive compressor with a transom door. The tanks are stored in secure mounts along the front of the pilot house.


Not sure if this fits the bill but looked interesting for your purpose.


Keith

Thanks again for everyone's replies. They have been great!!

The KK format is very good. The 2+2 head count seems right. No doubt Ill have many friends who will like to come but experience shows that life often gets in the way when its time for fuel deposits to be paid or ships to sail.

I should emphasise that in contrast to a commercial charter or live aboard, while I will have lots of equipment, not all of it needs to be accessed at the one time and space for everyone to kit up at the same time is not required. The equipment needed for a 30 min swim around coral is totally different to 2 hours spent inside a deep wreck and doing decompression. However, only what is requied for that particular day will need to be accessed. The remainder can be kept is storage/racked nearbye. This should reduce the storage and set up space required considerably. I will also have time on my side. Even if all passengers want to go diving, they can kit up at different times so as to not get in others' way. Again, unlike a commmercial operation, there will be less focus on dive schedules, and arrival/deparure dates.

B&B, thanks for your well placed concern. I totally recognise my lack of experience. Thats why Im trying to gather as much information, as early as possible, that I can. When I decide what is the best path forward wrt the vessel, then I can plan out the required training. I certainly dont expect to be setting off to Bikini single handed tomorrow.

My budget would be around AUD 200k/USD 140k (say $150+50k worth of preparation/customisation/personal preferences). I certainly like the concept of getting the smallest vessel that will do the job vs the biggest that can be afforded. Also, no one wants an eyesaw but my preference is for someting functional over gorgeous. I dont want to burst into tears at the first scratch to the gel coat.

Simi, what do you mean by "starting to bleed"? are you referring to the rust stains, bubbling and obvious age of the engine bay? Again, Im not looking to buy this vessel but it would be good to know what to look out for generally.

I find steps and ladders much more user friendly than platforms. I've yet to master the beaching walrus kick and roll to gracefully exit the water and get aboard. ) The only issue I see with boats with decks significantly above the waterline is handing off heavy stage bottles but it shouldnt be too difficult to find a solution.

Best Regards, Mike.

Normally when people talk about setting a cruising boat up for diving, I encourage them to forget the compressor and buy 12 or 16 aluminum 80s which store nicely in a strapped cube in the lower level of the boat. Because of your remoteness, get only enough tanks for one day and plan on storing them as ballast. Next step is to pick the compressor and figure out how big a generator you will need plus whatever are the rest of your electrical needs. I would focus on storing and operating it on and upper deck, maybe in a dock box. Cooler air circulation is critical to long life expectancy for a compressor in the tropics. This pretty much eliminates engine rooms and lazarettes. I would plan on diving from an inflatable as opposed to the mothership. A boat of a size you looking for won't be much fun to reboard if the seas build while your diving. Beyond that, buy a boat with a good cockpit, swim platform, dinghy and crane to put the dinghy on an upper deck.

Ted

GoneDiving said:

B&B, thanks for your well placed concern. I totally recognise my lack of experience. Thats why Im trying to gather as much information, as early as possible, that I can. When I decide what is the best path forward wrt the vessel, then I can plan out the required training. I certainly dont expect to be setting off to Bikini single handed tomorrow.

.

Click to expand...

I'd suggest starting the training now, in advance of selecting or having the vessel. It's going to take far longer than finding a boat capable.

Depending on dive location, a hookah is an easy way to dive without a tank from the mother ship or tender. At the very least, it's a great way to do underwater maintenance. That's what I used while cruising, but then I wasn't a pro like Fly Boy. However, now we're both so geriatric that diving is no longer a menu item (though I did shark dive at 71).

BandB said:

I'd suggest starting the training now, in advance of selecting or having the vessel. It's going to take far longer than finding a boat capable.

Click to expand...

What training are you talking about?

Welcome Aboard! Immediately I read your post I thought "Steber". Stebers are built in northern NSW and have a good reputation for seaworthiness,they get used by Marine Rescue and Police,commercial fishers, as well as pleasure boat owners. A quick check of Boatsales site did not find the model I had in mind: semi displacement hull,no flybridge, about half cabin and half cockpit, 40-45ft, usually single engine, but they have to be around. I used get waked on my mooring by one used for commercial fishing going past,they displace plenty of water. Well worth considering and researching, in my opinion, especially with your planned use.

Simi 60 said:

What training are you talking about?

Click to expand...

Also, at what point in the learning process do you actually need a vessel? I understand the need for licensing and registration but is there more theory that is required before actually getting in a boat and start doing progressively more difficult tasks?

Thanks

I really cannot think of a power boat in the $150k range that is open ocean capable, houses a compressor (big engine room) and suitable for single handed use. There are boats that can do that but i believe you would need to double or triple the budget. Maybe the sail boat would offer a better option?

I may have missed it in one of the treads but since you are focused on diving wouldn't you always have 2 or more? I would not be at all comfortable to be diving (even with a buddy by my side) in many remote areas with no one topside tending to the boat. Either the boat or the divers might drift and no hope of reuniting. What are your thoughts on that?

READY said:

I really cannot think of a power boat in the $150k range that is open ocean capable, houses a compressor (big engine room) and suitable for single handed use. There are boats that can do that but i believe you would need to double or triple the budget. Maybe the sail boat would offer a better option?

I may have missed it in one of the treads but since you are focused on diving wouldn't you always have 2 or more? I would not be at all comfortable to be diving (even with a buddy by my side) in many remote areas with no one topside tending to the boat. Either the boat or the divers might drift and no hope of reuniting. What are your thoughts on that?

Click to expand...

Some of the previous suggestions have been pretty close to what I'm looking for so hopefully I won't have to triple my budget. As I said in my first post, a sailing option would introduce many other issues that would likely make it a no go for me.

Solo diving, remote boating and remote diving are certainly all full of risks that I'm not going to recommend that others pursue. I recognize that this isn't a diving forum so suffice to say 'there are old divers and bold divers but no old bold divers'. If interested search 'solo diving' on some of the appropriate forums and enjoy reading the passionate debate. ?

Thanks. Mike

Hi Mike and welcome. I spent many years in Cairns and have been to a lot of the places you are thinking of going.


My first though for a boat would be as you and others have indicated an ex commercial full or semi displacement hull. Don't be put of by semi displacement as some of the best powered cruising boats in the world are this type of hull.


Running higher powered engines at low power settings for range will in general have no ill effect contrary to what some will tell you. Many manufacturers do recommend a period of high power every so often i.e 80% or more power for 1 hour every 24 of running. I have run high powered diesels at 20% power or less for thousands of hours with these intermittent high power bursts.


Having little or no boating experience perhaps consider doing a few years of coastal cruising on the Australian east coast before setting off on the longer trips. Its a great cruising ground and would give you invaluable experience for some of your proposed trips which could be daunting for even some more experience boaties.


I believe the bleeding indicated early in this thread may refer to money. It's very easy to underestimate by a large margin how much a boat can cost. Some may say like a hole in the water into which your pour money.



Good luck with the project,


Brett

Welcome GD,

Yous should have no problems finding a suitable boat for your needs.

I agree with other comments mentioning that many typical recreational "trawlers" wouldnt suit you needs. I'd go for an ex-trawler or fishing boat that some one else has spent a lot of money on to convert into what you need.

I'd also recommend some type of stabilization (sails, paravanes or active stabilizers) to be comfortable out in open water.

I don't know what your budget is but something like this may be suitable.

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/sharpie-trawler-timber-cruiser/224157

Big deck area, low running costs with efficent Gardner diesel, sails to stabilize the rolling and back up propulsion, About 2000 nm cruise range

GoneDiving said:

Also, at what point in the learning process do you actually need a vessel? I understand the need for licensing and registration but is there more theory that is required before actually getting in a boat and start doing progressively more difficult tasks?

Thanks

Click to expand...

I can't speak to what is available in your specific area, but some combination of coursework with theory and rules and hands on training either through formal courses or finding a willing captain who has a boat. Something to just get him started. We're not talking about a person who intends to do a little coastal cruising but one who intends to go far offshore and needs 2000 miles range for his activities. We're also not talking about someone coming from smaller boats or a different form of boating but someone who has zero experience in operating boats. Perhaps those of you from Australia can direct him toward resources.

Fuel costs come to mind. Have you run any numbers on what it'd cost to get from one place to the next? If not, and you don't already have really deep pockets, you may be in for a rude awakening.

Sailing is more forgiving on that front, as you can get about with next to no fuel costs... but at the expensive of maintaining and operating a sailing vessel.

Replies and Comments

Jetstream said:

Running higher powered engines at low power settings for range will in general have no ill effect contrary to what some will tell you. Many manufacturers do recommend a period of high power every so often i.e 80% or more power for 1 hour every 24 of running. I have run high powered diesels at 20% power or less for thousands of hours with these intermittent high power bursts.

Brett

Click to expand...

Thats good to hear. Ive seem many large gensets become paperweights in short time when left to power a couple of light bulbs and an aircon. A regular burst of full power wouldnt be hard to schedule in.

wkearney99 said:

Fuel costs come to mind. Have you run any numbers on what it'd cost to get from one place to the next? If not, and you don't already have really deep pockets, you may be in for a rude awakening.

Sailing is more forgiving on that front, as you can get about with next to no fuel costs... but at the expensive of maintaining and operating a sailing vessel.

Click to expand...

Who'se side are you on? I've almost got the Minister of Finance convinced that this will actualy save money.

On a serious note, 20,000nm over a few years at 10 litres/3 gal an hour and 7 knots is about AU$40k. Certainly not cheap but compare that to a 7 to 10 day remote liveaboard that can easily run $10 to 15k all up with flights etc. Even a week on a Komodo cattle boat with 1000 of my best friends is $5k. Of course, there are many other costs but we wont talk of those....

Im not ruling anything out at this stage but I see a pure sailing yacht as having a much longer learning curve for me where the inevitable learning mistakes and SNAFUs would have their own on costs. A power vessel also has the benefit of motoring in a much straighter line when required and less dependance on weather conditions. I've been to many dive sites where diving conditions are actually better underwater when surface condions are not ideal.

In reality none of this is financially justifiable but I see the smiles per dollar as being pretty high

Thanks, Mike

GoneDiving said:

On a serious note, 20,000nm over a few years at 10 litres/3 gal an hour and 7 knots is about AU$40k.

Click to expand...

Ambitious I think in the price range and sized vessel you are looking at.

Follow up questions

As more information and vessel options come to light, I've got a few questions on the details that I should be looking for.

Given that all are in good condition, would peoples' hull preferences be Fiberglass, steel, aluminium then wood in that order? I see FG as durable and easy to repair, steel as strong, easy to repair but subject to dissimilar metal and general corrosion, aluminium as corrosion resistant but prone to fatigue cracking that never really repairs/rewelds properly. I see wood as a money pit, needing constant maintenance and hard to source materials. There are some old ex navy vessels available that seem to fit the bill but with wooden hulls, should I avoid them?

Is there an age or operating hours after which boats deteriate rapidly? eg after 20 years houses often require new hot water heaters, kitchens and pumbing seemingly at the same time, cars seem to deteriate quickly after 250 to 300,000 kms etc. Is there a similar tipping point with boats? 7000 hours seems to be that point for land based generators, engines etc.

Some boats have many deck and roof levels. I'd prefer large flat cabin, cockpit and work areas. Similarly, I see boats with a large flat roof line offereing good tender, water toys and solar panel storage areas. How important are elevated lookouts, flybridges and the like? Are they most useful for fishermen to scan the horizon and manouver within tight marinas? I see the vast majority of my time at anchor, moored to a buoy or under steam.

Everyone's comments and thought are most welcome. Feel free to point out anythings that I may have missed.

Best Regards, Mike

Simi 60 said:

Ambitious I think in the price range and sized vessel you are looking at.

Click to expand...

Most that advertise these numbers list 10 to 15 lph. Is this just marketing speak or is there another range you would suggest?

Cheers.