Three million gallons of raw sewage spilled in Seattle

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...l-into-puget-sound-leading-to-beach-closures/

How long would it take for recreational boaters to pump over that much? Like 100 years?

"Government officials investigating...."

"What happened, Ernie?" "Oh, you know, the power went out, so it all just goes into the sound...."

Maybe the gubmint should have spent their time and money insuring the safety of treatment plants instead of recreational boating.

I've always considered it to be the ultimate irony that the very DAY Rhode Island's statewide NDZ law went into effect, a similar spill from a sewage treatment plant in Providence closed all the beaches and shellfish beds at that end of Narraganset Bay for a week!


--Peggie

A couple weeks ago same thing, Baltimore pumped 1.5 million gallons in to the Jones falls which flows into the Patapsco then the Chesapeake bay because of a storm. I’m Kent island wondered how long it would take to get here.

Recreational boaters would never be able to pump anything but a small fraction of that. Oppressive double standards at play, boaters pay.

Flesh eating necrotizing fasciitis, no doubt to me, the chance of catching that is made worse by these sewage spills which hurt your health, weakening you from other infections you can pick up.

In Hampton, VA they had a multi million gallon ongoing spill they knew nothing about for several years dumping sewage into the Back River years ago. And when the news finally reported about the spill, nothing further was said. I used to have the boat in that river, and it was pretty dead, but had lots of green grass.

The whole Chesapeake though is more polluted from run off from pig farms, and agriculture and residential yards than anything boaters could ever do even if the boaters just dumped it all into the bay.

You could also tell how dead it was from the smell and look of the bottom muck coming up on the anchor.
And hypoxic zones just kill or drive away fish and crabs. there is nothing for them to eat
But if you stop the sewage coming in, it will clean itself up eventually. I wonder how long that takes.

Sewage treatment plant spills are common in Baltimore every time there's a heavy rain...although a lot of 'em aren't really spills. They release partially treated sewage to prevent spills of totally UNtreated sewage.


Most people don't know that about 100 east coast municipal sewage treatment plants have been operating for several decades under a waiver from EPA because their systems are so old and/or have become inadequate as population has increased to meet the required standards and they can't afford to replace/upgrade them.


--Peggie

So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?

Too many people.

Nomad Willy said:

Too many people.

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Bingo....

caltexflanc said:

So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?

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No George, the complaint is NDZs where we can’t discharge treated waste while the municipalities dump millions of gallons of UNTREATED waste on a regular basis.

John

Once you get older you may realize many things people promote as good are simply frauds. NDZ is one, another is recycling. Most people put things in the recycling bin thinking they get recycled, but not anymore. And honestly what did China actually do with it?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/climate/recycling-landfills-plastic-papers.html

johnrupp said:

No George, the complaint is NDZs where we can’t discharge treated waste while the municipalities dump millions of gallons of UNTREATED waste on a regular basis.

John

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With little comment from the state Dept. of Ecology or outrage from our environmental friends. If the city/county sewage systems are operating with so little redundancy for failure, clearly there is no oversight or regulation of their capacity to operate in failure modes. One would think that backup generators, surge holding capacity, etc would be a design requirement. This week is not the first time. I'm outraged, especially because of the proven negative effects this raw sewage has on Chinook salmon population in Puget Sound where I live.

I don't see the flotilla of kayaks out there protesting the release!?! How come?

HeadMistress said:

I've always considered it to be the ultimate irony that the very DAY Rhode Island's statewide NDZ law went into effect, a similar spill from a sewage treatment plant in Providence closed all the beaches and shellfish beds at that end of Narraganset Bay for a week!


--Peggie

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Peggie

I am sure you have read the test reports from the EPA regarding treatment systems.

Would you care to comment on them?

The EPA testing was used as a basis for Washington States recent NDZ, and my layman reading of the report showed the electroscan performing very well, but not the “thermopure” system.

BTW I am a happy long term electroscan, and hold n treat owner.

caltexflanc said:

So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?

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No...and you know that's not what we're saying. But there's NO valid reason, environmental or otherwise, for at least 90% of the NDZs when the discharge from USCG certified onboard treatment devices is cleaner than the waters it's going into, even when there hasn't been a sewage plant spill.



--Peggie

caltexflanc said:

So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?

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I think we are saying that the fact that boaters are banned from dumping thousands of gallons of raw sewage into waters is very often superseded by government agencies dumping millions of gallons of sewage into the very same waters.

We have a similar situation with dolphins here (Mississippi gulf coast). Kill a dolphin down here, and you will wish you had killed a person instead. However a few weeks ago, the Corp of Engineers opened the Bonet Career (sic- spell check won't let me spell it correctly, I give up) spillway, dumping billions of gallons of fresh, pesticide and fertilizer laden water into the Mississippi sound to save houses from flooding, killing over two hundred dolphins.

Not saying it's right to kill a dolphin or to dump raw sewage. It isn't. Just saying that government is often the worst violator there is of marine and sanitation laws.

Don't get mad at the people talking about it. Get mad at the people doing it.

ksanders said:

Peggie
I am sure you have read the test reports from the EPA regarding treatment systems. Would you care to comment on them?
The EPA testing was used as a basis for Washington States recent NDZ, and my layman reading of the report showed the electroscan performing very well, but not the “thermopure” system.
BTW I am a happy long term electroscan, and hold n treat owner.

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I've seen several reports over the years, but I don't know which one you're referring to, so I don't know if I've seen that one. If you have a copy, I'd appreciate your sending me one...I can send you my email address via PM.

The major flaw in most of the reports is that they use the standard set forth in the CFR--a max bacteria count of 1000/100 ml--when the ACTUAL bacteria count from two of the only 3 treatment devices made in the US (Raritan LectraSan/ElectroScan and PuraSan) is <10/100 ml and is -0- from Groco ThermoPure.

If those who tested the Groco didn't get that result, it's most likely because they didn't know how it works. It uses heat to kill bacteria, so requires both 115v/AC power for the heater and DC power for the overboard pump. Plus, unlike the Raritan devices, it's fairly complex and takes a LOT of time to treat completely, plus it's VERY expensive...making it really only suitable on boats 40'+. You can read all about how it has to work here Groco Thermopure-2 Owners Manual and pay close attention to the Treatment Capacity section.

So if the EPA used the ThermoPure as the basis for making ANY waters a NDZ, they based it on a device that's unlikely to be installed on even as many as .5% (that's 1/2 of 1%) of boats in the whole US...fewer 5% have any treatment device!

--Peggie

Someone on another forum posted something to a thread about the Puget Sound spill I hadn't ever thought about: If you have a raw water toilet and are in waters impacted by a spill, you're pulling that sewage into your toilet. hoses and holding tank every time you flush the toilet.


--Peggie

fractalphreak said:

With little comment from the state Dept. of Ecology or outrage from our environmental friends.

I don't see the flotilla of kayaks out there protesting the release!?! How come?

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That's because they are all home sitting on the crapper from all the vegan food and granola.



HOLLYWOOD

honestly I think governments consider themselves above the laws they pass for regular folk. And flaunt the rules and regulations saying they pursue the greater good or whatever they can afford.

I wonder if everyone who has commented here has read the linked article. WA state has fined King County for past spills and the county has been upgrading their facilities to prevent future spills. There is no "double standard" in which the counties are allowed to intentionally pump raw sewage while boaters are not. The goal is for no pumping or spills of raw sewage by anyone.

Just like many of you, I sometimes question the actual environmental impact of boaters' relatively small amount of discharge, and I know where all the whales, dolphins, fish, and thousands of birds poop. But the simplest specification for an allowable amount of overall human discharge is zero. And I'm fine with that.

I do agree with those who think that making the entire Puget Sound a No Discharge Zone was unnecessary, but it's hard to explain to non-boaters that the area was already "no discharge" for raw sewage, and that the NDZ designation actually affects only those boaters who were treating their sewage before discharge, just like sewage plants do.

Yeah, richard, I did. King County was fined, all right: a penny per gallon of raw sewage pumped into the Sound. Except, it's the rate payers that pay the freight - not the people responsible. The findings are the incident(s) are attributable to "errors in judgment, poor communication, a lack of training, equipment failures and faulty maintenance" - typical of what you expect from public entities.

Bonnet Carre Spillway, Group. the Corps could solve a lot of the problem if they would dredge Pass A Loutre and South Pass as well as Southwest Pass.

Now when or IF they fine the utility for the spill, divide the fine by the number of gallons and use that same formula to fine boaters for any discharge that does not meet standards. Now I could get behind that. Let us treat every violator the same. So my twenty gallons would probably result in a 20 cent fine??

richard_wb said:

I wonder if everyone who has commented here has read the linked article. WA state has fined King County for past spills and the county has been upgrading their facilities to prevent future spills. There is no "double standard" in which the counties are allowed to intentionally pump raw sewage while boaters are not. The goal is for no pumping or spills of raw sewage by anyone.

Just like many of you, I sometimes question the actual environmental impact of boaters' relatively small amount of discharge, and I know where all the whales, dolphins, fish, and thousands of birds poop. But the simplest specification for an allowable amount of overall human discharge is zero. And I'm fine with that.

I do agree with those who think that making the entire Puget Sound a No Discharge Zone was unnecessary, but it's hard to explain to non-boaters that the area was already "no discharge" for raw sewage, and that the NDZ designation actually affects only those boaters who were treating their sewage before discharge, just like sewage plants do.

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Why bother fining a city a huge amount when you know that just falls back on the taxpayers who are not at fault. Their should be some kind of liability though, maybe public flogging of those responsible.

I like the flogging idea. Living in St. Pete these spills happen all the time.

Washington DC is building (digging) a large tunnel that is intended to be used to store excessive runoff until it can be handled by the water treatment plant instead of letting it overflow into the Potomac River.

what are the penalties when the one of these municipalities dump this much sewage e into the ocean ? we know what happens to us if one bowl full go into the bay

happens all the time in galveston. people get flesh eating bacteria from "elevated levels of fecal matter" about three times every summer.

HeadMistress said:

Someone on another forum posted something to a thread about the Puget Sound spill I hadn't ever thought about: If you have a raw water toilet and are in waters impacted by a spill, you're pulling that sewage into your toilet. hoses and holding tank every time you flush the toilet.


--Peggie

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LOL, so true.

richard_wb said:

I wonder if everyone who has commented here has read the linked article. WA state has fined King County for past spills and the county has been upgrading their facilities to prevent future spills. There is no "double standard" in which the counties are allowed to intentionally pump raw sewage while boaters are not. The goal is for no pumping or spills of raw sewage by anyone.

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I think the complaint that many have is that the potential fines for a recreational boater intentionally (or unintentionally) raw waste overboard are relatively greater than what King County has to pay.

Also, if pump out stations in my area, or the area which my boat happens to be, are unavailable, I can’t discharge my waste tank, nor can I continue to use my head. When the power outage caused raw sewage to be discharged in King County, did the County tell. All their clients that they could no longer flush their toilets? I don’t think so.

Who have been dumping sewage into the waterways for too long. I used to live there. Don't much like the East Coast - Sorry - raised in Oregon where people have cared about their surroundings for some time now.