% Off of list, whats realistic?

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bshillam

bshillam

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Joined
May 18, 2013
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801
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Our Heaven
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1997 4800 Navigator
I have made a few offers and want to get a sense from people on the West Coast whats realistic with the market we have now. I am looking mainly sedans and pilothouse designs. 1990 and newer. If you have made offers recently where did you initially offer off list (by percentage). Most of the boats I am focusing are between 140-160k however I have found a boat that really captures my attention at 239k. My budget was originally set for 140k and I'd like to be close to that but understand just like with boats my budget might need a bit of a compromise to achieve what I am looking for.
 
I think it depends a lot on the condition if the boat, especially one that is 20-30 years old. Also, are there other boats of the same model out there, or is this a unique boat (of so, much harder to price). The other factor that is very important is the motivation of the seller. Try to find out how long it has been on the market and what other motivations there might be. That said, if you have a budget, you have a budget. Don’t go over significantly because you “fell in love” with a boat unless you are 110% sure you are getting a very good price given all other factors. Finally, once you do make an offer that is accepted, get a thorough and complete survey, including engines unless they are very new, and don’t be afraid to negotiate if there are significant problems that crop up.
 
It doesn't matter what the X% off the asking price is. Offer a price you are comfortable paying. If the seller takes it, good for you. If the offer is rejected find another boat. Life is too short to get wound up in how much off the asking price you should offer. Plenty of other boats for sale.

80K over your original budget (~30%) is a big jump. If you manage the extra 80K, are you going to have sufficient funds to actually operate the boat you buy?

If you really only have 160K to spend on a boat, spending lots more is not going to end well.
 
% off list is realistic when discussing new cars , boats or motor homes where a manufacturer sets a price , and the dealer pays 25-40% less.

When a boat owner sets a price he usually searches the local market to see what other folks are selling for.
 
Note also that many boats listed for sale are not seriously for sale. They list it at price way above market, and figure if someone bites at that price, they will in fact sell it. And maybe at a profit.

Production boats are easier as there is a track record for each model and year. But I think the published sales prices may be fudged a bit, but not 100% on that. Others more knowledgeable might confirm.

You do your best to do comparisons and price shopping, but ultimately it comes down to what you and the seller can agree on as "fair".

Sometimes there are real deals that pop up, especially with a seller facing unfortunate circumstances. When one of those pops up, you have to jump FAST.
 
Offer what you can afford. You never know the buyer's circumstances and how long it's been on the market. The worst they can say is no.

Ted
 
IMO there is no hard and fast rule for a discount. Some folks price their boats high and then factor in a large discount. Others price their boats right and will give a tiny discount or maybe fix a few items from the survey.
Lastly, there are some boats which are priced to sell. These folks have underpriced their boat and will expect full asking price.

My Silverton was in the first category. The guy had it priced high. I offered $20k less and he accepted. Easy. Done.
 
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I don't think % off works as some boats are reasonably price while many boats are not.

I think this might be another example of where a buyer broker would be extremely helpful. He/she should be able to give you a value of what a boat in average condition is worth. They (or you) could then add or subtract specific items for a specific boat.

Many folks have no realistic idea what their boat is worth. The do not listen to their selling broker and tell them I want to sell my boat for X dollars. I know my boat is worth more than other boats on the market because I installed new electronics in 2005 or replaced the 30 year old head 5 years ago. They then see other crazy asking prices (on boats that lanquish on the market for a long time) and based their price on these prices instead of the more realistic value of their boat.

I like looking at Moreboats.com as you can see how long a boat has been on the market and if there has been a reduction from the original prices. It helps serve as another piece in the pricing puzzle.

Jim
 
don't care what the ask is.


Offer 20-40% off if you think that's fair.


explain how you reached that offer and what it will cost to fix certain things, the seller knows it.


I looked at boat for 260K offered 175K seller declined a year later he sold it for 180K


Another was 210, offered 155, seller accepted but survey was not so good


just throw the number out there, the worst that happens is he says no
 
For what it’s worth, I just put in an offer at 85% of asking price on a boat that I felt was already very reasonably priced. I figured we’d haggle back and forth a bit, but the seller agreed on the first offer. She’s one of a kind, so I didn’t have a track record to go on. She was on the market for over a year on the Great Lakes.
 
It amazes me all of the wrangling people do over the price of boats. "list price", "market price", MSRP, "assessed value", and on and on......

What is the boat worth TO YOU? If others are willing to pay more, so be it. Wouldn't you be upset if you paid more than you had to?

Ignore the "asking price". What is the boat worth to you, and your family, and your recreational enjoyment?

If it is the type of boat you want, offer what it is worth TO YOU. There is no "market" price if the seller is willing to sell it at the price it is worth TO YOU.
Why should you bypass a boat you want because the asking price is higher than what it is worth to you? How do you know the seller wouldn't be willing to sell it at the price it is worth TO YOU? Don't pass it by! ASK!!! What have you got to lose?

I have bought boats at 40% below the asking price and I have also been summarily laughed out of a yard for some other offers. In the end, by offering a price that the boat(s) were worth it to ME and MY particular situation at the time and MY perceived enjoyment, I knew I had done what was right FOR ME. If others perceived more value at that time in the seller's life, then oh well. No worse off for wear...

STOP the hand wringing, get over it......."just do it"

JMHO:hide::hide:
 
bshillam said:
I have made a few offers and want to get a sense from people on the West Coast whats realistic with the market we have now. I am looking mainly sedans and pilothouse designs. 1990 and newer. If you have made offers recently where did you initially offer off list (by percentage). Most of the boats I am focusing are between 140-160k however I have found a boat that really captures my attention at 239k. My budget was originally set for 140k and I'd like to be close to that but understand just like with boats my budget might need a bit of a compromise to achieve what I am looking for.
Click to expand...

You're located in Portland Or so I'm going to assume your market is similar to the Puget Sound market. In serious conversation with a local broker I was advised to offer 15% - 20% below asking. In conversation with a California broker he remarked that PNW asking prices seem far too high and it takes a long time to sell a boat up here.

I'm moving through the process now on a boat that started at $90K asking, seller rejected an offer of $80K a year ago. After it sat for the year asking was reduced to $80K and my offer of $70K was accepted. We're now renegotiating based on issues found during survey.
 
I keep hearing the stories where an offer was rejected and the boat sat for like another year. The costs of upkeep (or the decay from NO upkeep!), depreciation, dockage, insurance, etc. And then a year later they accept an even lower offer. Expensive game to play!!
 
DO NOT get emotionally hooked on a boat.If it is priced too high and the seller won't come down to what you are willing to pay, walk away. There are others waiting for you.
 
Ski in NC said:
I keep hearing the stories where an offer was rejected and the boat sat for like another year. The costs of upkeep (or the decay from NO upkeep!), depreciation, dockage, insurance, etc. And then a year later they accept an even lower offer. Expensive game to play!!
Click to expand...


Yes it is a very expensive game to play. Especially in the price range the OP is in implying older boats. I know the details of one such slow sale where the difference between the original asking and final sales price 3 yrs later was just about the same as the cost of ownership for those 3 yrs.
 
Also depends on how bad you want the specific boat, how long you've been looking and if there are other examples of the boat for sale.

If the boat you are looking at is exactly what you want, in good condition, equipped well, modern electronics, priced reasonably, and recently listed, you don't want to piss off the seller so you will make an offer closer to asking.

On the other hand, if you are looking at a boat that does'nt match your search criteria 100%, needs work, has been for sale longer and is among several boats you are considering, a low ball offer might be accepted or countered.
 
There is no formula. Mostly because the seller didn't use a formula to arrive at their sell price.. Most sellers set the sell price based on what they have into the boat, or their perceived value. This is rarely a realistic valuation.

Offer what you believe to be the fair market value for the boat.
 
All good feedback!

This is the kind of feedback I have been needing. Although my offers haven’t been for list I have reviewed the sold data and made offers in line with the previous sales in the PNW. Some sellers have decided that their boat was worth more. And that’s ok. It’s not my last boat so I am approaching it with reservation as my plan is to sell in 5-10 yrs and get the retirement boat then.

I am also not approaching it with much emotion as it’s going to be used in my business. Looking at it as more a business use item until we are successful in negotiations. :thumb:

Thanks for the time and honest feedback!
 
About eight years ago, we looked at a wood DeFever 54 that had just dropped the price from $219K to $179K. Pretty substantial drop. I had already seen the boat on Yachtworld months earlier at $239K. Even though it was still over our budget we decided to take a look. While inspecting the vessel the broker informed us that it had just sold, but did not pass the buyer's survey (due to some above the waterline wood issues), and that he knew we could get the boat for $139K. Six months later our friends bought the boat for $90K...
 
Moonfish said:
About eight years ago, we looked at a wood DeFever 54 that had just dropped the price from $219K to $179K. Pretty substantial drop. I had already seen the boat on Yachtworld months earlier at $239K. Even though it was still over our budget we decided to take a look. While inspecting the vessel the broker informed us that it had just sold, but did not pass the buyer's survey (due to some above the waterline wood issues), and that he knew we could get the boat for $139K. Six months later our friends bought the boat for $90K...
Click to expand...

Great story - patients pays off for sure! Sometimes just the way we intend and in other ways opens new doors we didn’t know about.
 
I hope you have a "buyers broker" . If so he cad guide you with comps of what other similar boats have actually sold for. With that you and your broker could determine if the asking price is in line with the market. Also what a fair offer would be.

Don't be concerned if the seller rejects your first offer and counters. Now you are taking, and can come to a price you both can live with. If he snaps up your first offer you may have over paid.
 
fgarriso said:
If he snaps up your first offer you may have over paid.
Click to expand...

This is what just happened to me, and for about three seconds I thought 'maybe I should have gone lower...' Immediately upon thinking that, I decided that it wouldn't do me any good to have that notion floating around in my head. I decided that I was happy with what I offered, and really, I would have paid the full asking price if the owner played hardball.

It was worth it to me, and as others have said, that's really the bottom line.
 
Can't answer your question but I have two interesting stories about boat pricing. There actually might be something to be learned here. First story, a really nice inboard ski boat. priced at $10,000. Taking a test ride with the owner, I casually asked what he really hoped to get for the boat. His reply, "Somewhere between $7 and $8" I instantly shot back $7,500. He accepted, quick cash deal. Second instance was trawler, listed at $30,000. Not actually a distress sale but anxious seller. Same question but via e-Mail this time. He actually said
"I'd take $22,500" Done deal..

pete
 
I never come out on the winning side of selling our past two boats. Started with a price, people waited, I reduced the price, the low offers finally came in, I succumbed.
 
boathealer said:
It amazes me all of the wrangling people do over the price of boats. "list price", "market price", MSRP, "assessed value", and on and on......



What is the boat worth TO YOU? If others are willing to pay more, so be it. Wouldn't you be upset if you paid more than you had to?



Ignore the "asking price". What is the boat worth to you, and your family, and your recreational enjoyment?



If it is the type of boat you want, offer what it is worth TO YOU. There is no "market" price if the seller is willing to sell it at the price it is worth TO YOU.

Why should you bypass a boat you want because the asking price is higher than what it is worth to you? How do you know the seller wouldn't be willing to sell it at the price it is worth TO YOU? Don't pass it by! ASK!!! What have you got to lose?



I have bought boats at 40% below the asking price and I have also been summarily laughed out of a yard for some other offers. In the end, by offering a price that the boat(s) were worth it to ME and MY particular situation at the time and MY perceived enjoyment, I knew I had done what was right FOR ME. If others perceived more value at that time in the seller's life, then oh well. No worse off for wear...



STOP the hand wringing, get over it......."just do it"



JMHO:hide::hide:
Click to expand...


EXACTLY! What is that boat worth “TO YOU”. That’s what my shipwright said to me when I was agonizing over things and it was very good advice. He also said, don’t tell the, how you arrive at that or anything else. Buyers don’t need to know how you got to your offering price.

Jim
 
Ski in NC said:
I keep hearing the stories where an offer was rejected and the boat sat for like another year. The costs of upkeep (or the decay from NO upkeep!), depreciation, dockage, insurance, etc. And then a year later they accept an even lower offer. Expensive game to play!!
Click to expand...


I’ve done that before. When I sold my Catalina 36 I rejected an early offer than I thought was too low. Turns out the offer I finally accepted was lower.
 
Wayfarer said:
This is what just happened to me, and for about three seconds I thought 'maybe I should have gone lower...' Immediately upon thinking that, I decided that it wouldn't do me any good to have that notion floating around in my head. I decided that I was happy with what I offered, and really, I would have paid the full asking price if the owner played hardball.



It was worth it to me, and as others have said, that's really the bottom line.
Click to expand...


Exactly!

Too many folks IMO view any kind of transaction as a contest that they have to “win”. If they get what they think was a good deal they gloat feeling they have somehow beat their opponent into submission. If they don’t get what they think is a great deal they somehow feel cheated.

You got what looks like a wonderful boat at a price that you were comfortable with. Don’t look back with any regrets. If you had haggled for another $5k you may not be experiencing the joy than you are right now.
 
Moonfish said:
About eight years ago, we looked at a wood DeFever 54 that had just dropped the price from $219K to $179K. Pretty substantial drop. I had already seen the boat on Yachtworld months earlier at $239K. Even though it was still over our budget we decided to take a look. While inspecting the vessel the broker informed us that it had just sold, but did not pass the buyer's survey (due to some above the waterline wood issues), and that he knew we could get the boat for $139K. Six months later our friends bought the boat for $90K...
Click to expand...

Ouch, I feel for that previous owner. $219 down to $90, yikes.

Got any idea of dollar amounts your friends had to spend on it to bring it up to decent condition?

When we sold our last boat I had my guy give me a realistic figure on what it would take to bring it up to top-notch shape. I then took that off the 'going market price' for that model. Sold it a month later. Sweetened the deal when there was some hesitating by "throwing in" the spare props and canvas cover I had for it. I was happy to see it sold without incurring additional costs (storage, etc). New owners were likely happy to feel they'd gotten something extra. Win-win.

My advice is once a survey's done (or a good personal inspection, knowing what you're looking at), figure out what the repair/service costs would be. Take that and maybe 15-20% off the going market price for that year/make/model of that boat. That'd be where I'd start on my offers.

But there's also great opportunities to be had knowing just how painful the lingering ownership of it has been. Deaths, injuries, etc, are all factors to consider for how 'eager' the sellers might be to move it. I know, it sounds mean, but children looking to unload their deceased relative's old boat might be ripe for negotiating...
 
I doubt in the history of mankind that there has ever been a "seller's market" for boats (unlike real estate).

So here's the very simple answer: come in with an offer of 50% of what they are asking, this will quickly let you find out how motivated they are. You should be actively looking for an estate sale or hardship case anyway. If the boat is a piece of garbage, is wood or a project boat, then offer much, much less than that.

Boats are not investments - they are a financial loss - we use them for pleasure, like buying popcorn or going to the movies. Forget the emotional attachments or the "what it's worth to you" stuff.

IMO
 
"Boats are not investments - they are a financial loss - we use them for pleasure, like buying popcorn or going to the movies. Forget the emotional attachments or the "what it's worth to you" stuff."


It is known as a "wasting asset " to an economist.
 
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