All Chain vs Chain and Line Anchor Rode

O C Diver said:

Keep thinking about an inexpensive pressure washer. The water flow is a lot less, but the pressure would be spectacular. Pretty sure it would run off the inveter. Hmmm...

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Sounds like a great idea! keep us posted if you decide to pursue it!

wkearney99 said:

I've got a freshwater spigot in a bow locker and 100 gallons of wateer on-board. It's ok for light chain washing, but for a few days worth of anchoring on the Chesapeake... I'm starting to want a raw water setup for it.

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My washdown pump is plumbed so I can switch it from fresh to raw water. Most of the time I use fresh water as I carry 350 gallons. However, when there are more folks on board for longer periods, I switch to using raw water.

My 12v washdown pump is rather puny and ineffectual however.

Tangentially, I put some Dri-Deck tiles down in my anchor locker. No easy way to take pix, and even enlisted my 11 year old to climb down in there to aid the placement. Good news was full load of chain didn't crush the tiles. At least not enough to prevent being able to wash down the locker and get the crud out.

I think what prevent most folks from pursuing the raw water washdown idea is putting yet another hole through the hull. I know that's my starting issue. Then there's the question of routing the plumbing and how many cabinets would have to be pull apart. I at least already have a spigot in a bow locker, so I'd just have to find where that taps into the freshwater system and change it over. According to the manual it's tee'd off the same feed as the day head.

The manual diagrams also mention a sea water washdown... which I'm not sure was installed in mine... hmmm... bilge inspection now on the to-do list...

dhays said:

My washdown pump is plumbed so I can switch it from fresh to raw water.

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Given the risks of water-borne illness I'd likely want one setup to be totally separate. I can live without a washdown should it's pump fail. I'd really want to having anything risky getting back into the freshwater system.

wkearney99 said:

Tangentially, I put some Dri-Deck tiles down in my anchor locker.

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Very good idea. Did you fix them in any way, or just lies at the bottom of the locker?


That would probably be an even better advantage for a steel boat to prevent rust in the locker - always an ongoing battle for me in the past.

wkearney99 said:

Given the risks of water-borne illness I'd likely want one setup to be totally separate. I can live without a washdown should it's pump fail. I'd really want to having anything risky getting back into the freshwater system.

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Yeah that is something that I’ve thought about, but not worried about. The system was installed for the PO at commissioning I believe. I’ve looked at it and the way it is plumbed and I have a hard time imagining how raw water could back contaminate the fresh water. However, I’m sure it is possible.

makobuilders said:

Very good idea. Did you fix them in any way, or just lies at the bottom of the locker?

That would probably be an even better advantage for a steel boat to prevent rust in the locker - always an ongoing battle for me in the past.

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I just cut them to fit and laid them on the bottom of the locker. The weight of the chain is going to hold them in place quite effectively. I used a pair of fiskar utility scissors to do the cutting. Dri-Deck tiles are pretty rubbery, so you don't need anything else to cut them. A utility knife would work also.

My hope is to allow room for water to dry and allow crud to be washed out the locker drain holes. I try to wash the chain effectively while retrieving it but some crud always makes it past. With the tile down there I can potentially blast a hose onto the chain pile in the locker and not have water/crud get caught behind links of chain.

Instead of a new thru hull for the wash down pump, I installed a T in the line coming out of the generators strainer. The generators thru hull and strainer are oversized to handle total combined flow.

There is a shut off valve to the wash down pump.

I have a separate fresh water outlet near the bow if I want to use fresh water to wash the anchor, but saltwater is preferred.

I run the complete rode out of the locker in the fall, wash it, repaint the depth markings if needed, reverse the chain and wash the anchor locker before putting the rode back. And service the windlass at the same time.

Instead of washing the chain by hand on deck , I have seen a watertight anchor locker built in above the WL with l2 inch thru hulls as drains.

The chain was simply fed into the locker as is, and a deck wash pump run for a half hour or so.Got rid of enough mud so the boat did not have the "low tide" aroma.

After setting the anchor, the wash pump would be switched on to clear the locker of any remaining gunk.

FF said:

Instead of washing the chain by hand on deck , I have seen a watertight anchor locker built in above the WL with l2 inch thru hulls as drains.

The chain was simply fed into the locker as is, and a deck wash pump run for a half hour or so.Got rid of enough mud so the boat did not have the "low tide" aroma.

After setting the anchor, the wash pump would be switched on to clear the locker of any remaining gunk.

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Our last boat was set up like that, but with only a one inch thru-hull, which was the only flaw in the system as shells brought up with the chain were constantly clogging the drain. Other than that it was a great way to wash the chain off.

FF said:

Instead of washing the chain by hand on deck , I have seen a watertight anchor locker built in above the WL with l2 inch thru hulls as drains.

The chain was simply fed into the locker as is, and a deck wash pump run for a half hour or so.Got rid of enough mud so the boat did not have the "low tide" aroma.

After setting the anchor, the wash pump would be switched on to clear the locker of any remaining gunk.

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I can't imagine any sort of pump setup that would effectively wash away the kind of pudding that sticks to the rode around here in Chesapeake. I mean, for a bigger boat, possibly, but those would likely already have a sealed-off rode locker, or even room large enough for a mate to be down there flaking the chain. Something with a higher-pressure collar of water that hit the chain on the way in... maybe. But then you're into pulling seawater into the closed space and spraying all over everything... which may introduce more corrosion issues than you'd want (like the underside of the windlass and it's motor).

I have three bow lockers, they're all separated from the interior by a forward bulkhead. But they're not sealed against each other, the two that open above have just a simple panel on the side leading into the chain locker under the windlass. So I wouldn't be able to entertain anything that filled or otherwise sprayed all over the place in there, at least not on a regular basis.

Group9 said:

Our last boat was set up like that, but with only a one inch thru-hull, which was the only flaw in the system as shells brought up with the chain were constantly clogging the drain. Other than that it was a great way to wash the chain off.

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We get shells too. Last weekend we had tiny (live) crabs come up with the chain.

There's two drains to my chain locker, but they're only about 3/8" in diameter and have a turn. I had to blast them using a shore hose and the dinghy to clear the accumulated gunk. Thankfully none of it was large enough to block it again.

Our current boat has salt and freshwater wash down outlets at the bow for washing off the chain as it comes in. We use fresh water when we can spare it (no water maker, yet!) and salt water when we can’t.

wkearney99 said:

Given the risks of water-borne illness I'd likely want one setup to be totally separate. I can live without a washdown should it's pump fail. I'd really want to having anything risky getting back into the freshwater system.

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Bill and Dave,

There is a backflow preventer on the North Pacifica so no issues with contamination. I guess you should check to be sure but it is on the NP 43 we are currently chartering.

We are in Echo Bay, Sucia headed to Deer Harbor, Orcas Island.

Rob

Datenight said:

There is a backflow preventer on the North Pacifica so no issues with contamination. I guess you should check to be sure but it is on the NP 43 we are currently chartering.

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If there is one be sure it's inspected periodically. We've had them on our sprinkler systems at home and they do fail, more often than you'd think.

While cross-contamination might not seem like a big deal, the work to totally clean the system, should it happen, would seem like a LOT more trouble than it'd be worth.

I'm all about not making more work for myself. Thus I'd rather not have them connected at all, save me the troubles entirely.

I really don't see a huge benefit in using fresh water to clean the anchor and rode.

I can use either water source but have not had any issues with odor after using seawater..

https://www.marinenow.com/3-8-316-stainless-steel-g4-anchor-chain/

200 feet of 3/8 316 SS G4 is $2000. Add another $1000 for 1/2 inch.
So if you buy SS chain, is it going to last forever? (until you lose it)

syjos said:

I really don't see a huge benefit in using fresh water to clean the anchor and rode.

I can use either water source but have not had any issues with odor after using seawater..

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Agreed, I'd be fine using seawater for washdown of the rode, locker and anything left on the deck. Though it's convenient to have fresh water for actual cleaning/rinsing of decks/windows.

I don't have a convenient through-hull for pulling up sea water. That and I have other things on the 'to do' list well ahead of hauling out and having all that installed!

Datenight said:

Bill and Dave,

There is a backflow preventer on the North Pacifica so no issues with contamination. I guess you should check to be sure but it is on the NP 43 we are currently chartering.

We are in Echo Bay, Sucia headed to Deer Harbor, Orcas Island.

Rob

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Thanks. I am sure you are right. North Pacific generally have things well covered. At least that has been my experience so far.


I hope your trip is going well. The weather should be improving this weekend.

90' chain and rest rode

Our early years cruising the Bahamas we had 300' of chain. 5 years ago we switched to 90' chain and 200' of rode on the advice of Bahamian fishermen. They are of the opinion that any time weather is rough enough to warrant more than 90' they would rather be riding on rode because of flexibility. Since then we have only had one time that required more than 90'.

Just noted other comments regarding coral. In 12 years we never have anchored on or near coral.

sammy999 said:

We need to replace our anchor rode on our 34' Mainship Pilot with a V700 Lewmar windlass. We are trying to decide between an all chain rode, 250' of 1/4" G4 chain, vs a 30' chain and 200' of 8 plait 1/2" line. Will be boating the inland rivers, Great Lakes, East Coast and Bahamas. Would appreciate hearing pros and cons and experiences you may have encountered. Thanks!!

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Our recently sold Mainship 34 trawler had 30’ of chain that we replaced with 90 feet of chain and 150’ of line. Worked great. In shallow waters on the south west coast of Florida we seldom had to put down more than 60 feet of chain. It would no longer slip through the windlass on very windy days before I had a chance to clear it.

I don’t have a windlass nor do I want one. The added expense, weight, and problems with a windlass aren’t worth it to me. I have a 30’ Sundowner weighing about 10,000 lbs. This is what has worked great for me on lakes, canals, and the coast of Northeast Maine. A Rockna 15 kg anchor attached to a 50’ length of 5/8” rope which is attached to a 20’ length of very heavy chain then 200’ of 1/2” anchor rope. Since I rarely anchor in depths over 50’ this means I rarely have to lift the chain and the anchor at the same time. Furthermore the chain weight is usually near the center of my rode which means I have the weight of the chain pulling with mechanical advantage to lower the force pulling on the anchor to help it set. In six seasonal years I have seen very little wear on the first 50’ piece of 5/8” rope. I did add a sailboat rope winch I can use if the anchor just doesn’t want to pull out.

I also have the 34 Pilot.

A year ago I replaced the chain/line with all chain. All chain is much better. Not just improved holding, but all chain lets me totally control anchor operations remotely from the pilothouse.

When I had chain/line, the anchor had to be controlled from the pulpit due to occasional jamming, etc.

ljk,
Then convenience is what I’m thinking. That’s probably the main reason many go for all chain. And probably very few buy a 44 pistol. But many buy a 44 magnum.

I thought about all chain when I bought my last capstan.
If I had a typical rode length (200’) I may have done it. But I’ve always had 400’ as a safety feature.
The upper part of the all chain rode is doing almost no good at all catenary wise. If one was to get a much higher catenary benefit on a 200’ rode with the same weight of rode you’d get 100’ of chain twice as heavy and use it on the lower half of the rode only. Or you could get 50’ of chain for 4 times as heavy and put it on the lower part of the rode that connects to the anchor. Far far more catenary for the original rode weight. I’m trying to demonstrate the great catenary advantage of a combination rode.

On a long ago TF thread w Marin Faure taking part it was determined that the ideal place for weight on an anchor rode for max catenary effect was 5-10’ up from the anchor. I had always thought before that that the best place was right at the end of the anchor shank. I’m not absolutely sure about this but I think it is so. So it would seem if you had a kellet or anchor buddy that would be the best place for it.
Also I suspect that weight on the upper part of a rode (say 10’ down) actually reduces catenary. It is strictly my opinion and I have nothing to make that conclusive. An opinion .. or perhaps just a notion. Could be more or less easily proven though.

Nomad Willy said:

ljk,
Then convenience is what I’m hear’in.
I thought about all chain when I bought my last capstan.
If I had a typical rode length (200’) I may have done it. But the upper part of the all chain rode is doing almost no good at all. If one was to get maximum catenary benefit with the same weight you’d get 100’ of chain twice as heavy and use it on the lower half of the rode only. Or you could get 50’ of chain 4 times as heavy and put it on the part of the rode that connects to the anchor. Far far more catenary for the original rode weight. I’m trying to demonstrate the great catenary advantage of a combination rode.
On a long ago

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That's all fine. For me, convenience is a big deal. I single hand my 34 Pilot a lot, and not having to leave the pilothouse to get hooked and unhooked is a major benefit.

Mainship 34

We cruised a Mainship 34 trawler in the PNW with 70 feet of 5/16 chain and 200 feet of 5/8 3 strand. Found that most of our day stops were all chain. Gave us the benefits of all chain without the weight penalty

ljk,
Indeed and many others do all chain for the same reason.
I almost did it myself and most know me as anti-all chain.
But I don’t want to give up my 400’ rode for safety should the engine quit in nasty weather.

The upper part of the all chain rode is doing almost no good at all catenary wise.

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That's not really true. The boat still has to pull that weight up on the way to the rode being straight to the anchor. Even when,as is oft the case, the rode is hanging straight down from the pulpit and the"upper part" is only the distance to the bottom, that upper part puts a load on the boat as it moves backward, not to mention the length of chain laying on the bottom. If you have some chain and rope laying around, you can test this at home.

Note that particular chain hook by Mantus, shown in photo, now only comes in one size. I wanted to buy one, but Mantus has gone with a new design. I like the old one better

Jack Hulse
New Orleans

Hey caltex,
I was talking bout the advantages of good catenary. Not holding. But that comes after the rode becomes quite horizontal. That’s the whole point .. to get the rode at the anchor shank as horizontal as possible.
And pulling down on the boat does no good.

But I see your point. However when the chain is vertical there’s no catenary. But to pull on the anchor the rode will need to be quite horizontal.

Many commercial fishermen in Alaska have very heavy chain (some even studded) and unless there’s a wind the rode remains so vertical they could be tied to the top of a flagpole. HaHa