My next boat

Well I have just experienced the first part of " the two greatest days of a yachtsmen". I have sold my boat, a 36 ft Searay and now on the hunt for a 40-44 ft trawler-ish boat.
So I joined this group for some collective wisdom ( thanks in advance)
Two of the boats I am considering are the CHB Ponderosa 42 or 44 cockpit model. Also the President 41 Sundeck .
Any opinions on these hulls would be great, handling in a seaway, build quality, known problems. Etc. My budget is around 90,000 or so and I realize there is always things to fix or update. I am familiar with the mechanicals so not so worried about that end.
We do like the Sundeck type of boats for the extra room but if the right tricabin came up, would look there as well.

Cheers,
Gary
Victoria BC

Good luck and welcome

Be very careful with CHBs. If you find one that you like, have it VERY thoroughly surveyed by a surveyor very familiar with these boats. There is nothing inherently wrong with a CHB. But like many of the so-called "Taiwan Trawlers" the process by which they were made can present problems with the build quality. While this practice may no longer be used, during the 70s and 80s many of the cruisers made in Taiwan had their hulls fabricated by a parent yard but then the boats were farmed out to small, family-owned yards for completion. Some of these yards did very good work with good materials, other yards not so much. The result is a quality inconsistency where hull number 504 can have marine-grade plywood in the cabin sides for stiffening but hull number 505 can have cut up packing crate and pallet boards for stiffening. Both work equally well when new, but when windows start to leak and water gets down inside the cabin wall and soaks the wood stiffening panels, guess which one will be more resistant to rot and softening the longest?

The same can be true of any cruiser made in Taiwan during this era--- CHB just happens to be one brand that I know of that used this manufacturing method.

ANY boat make--- CHB, Grand Banks, Fleming, Krogen, Bayliner, Tollycraft, Nordic Tug, you name it, can be reduced to terrible condition by abuse and neglect. But some will keep their heads above water a little longer even under poor treatment.* The symptoms of problems are not always apparent to buyers new to these boats.* They certainly weren't to us, which is why when we went shopping for a boat a couple of states south of us we took along (at our expense) a friend with a 30+ year career in the marine industry who was very familiar with all this.* Plus the surveyors we hired.

There are a bazillion boats out there.* If you find one you like but it doesn't pass muster with the surveyors, don't think there won't be any others that meet your criteria if you walk away from this one.* There will be.

Hi Gary,
have you considered a locally built Canoe Cove? I really like their tri-cabin models and almost pulled the trigger on one in Portland before finding our Ocean. I haven't researched them enough to find out if they suffer from the typical Taiwan boat issues, but the CC's I run into seem to be standing the test of time.


-- Edited by Max Simmons on Tuesday 6th of March 2012 10:49:35 AM

Hi Gary - - > Welcome!

I might suggest*you look into Tollycraft boats.* Yachtworld has*plenty to review: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?cit=true&slim=quick&ybw=&sm=3&searchtype=advancedsearch&Ntk=boatsEN&Ntt=&is=&man=Tollycraft&hmid=0&ftid=0&enid=0&fromLength=34&toLength=48&luom=126&fromYear=1970&toYear=1996&fromPrice=&toPrice=&currencyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

Craigslist usually has quite a few in Seattle and north.

I own one and we simply love her.* One of the best built and laidout production boat lines I've seen.* Affordable too!!

Best luck in your yacht search.* Cheers! Art

thanks so much for the replies....I will definatly be careful with my purchase. I do like the Canoe Coves and they are built very well however the cruising crew ( wife) does not like the CC tricabin. Have not been on a Tolly yet, will have to check that out.

Does anyone on the forum own a President 41 ? They were not a CHB build .... Quality issues as well?

Oh the decisions......

I'm going to get in trouble here...

As others have indicated the tollies and uniflites can be good values. If you find one thats been carefully maintained (or restored) these can represent a great buy.

Here's where I'm going to get in trouble...

In the PACNW the Bayliner 38 is a tremendously popular boat. You can get these all day long for less than your target price. The trick is to find one thats been well taken care of. Thats the trick with any older boat though.

The Bayliner 45 (like Woodsongs) is also a great value with a strong following. These might be near the edge of your budget target so it might take a little more looking.

Whatever you decide, you are going from what is probably a newer searay to a certainly older and larger boat. You are going to be in for maintenance experiences that come with a older boat. Be careful and keep in mind that when you buy a large boat you are also buying the previous owners. Well maintained older boats will stand out mechanically. Look beyond the quality of the exterior wax job and think about how the boat was mechanically maintained.

There is a beautiful Ponderosa 44CP for sale here in Ventura.

I'll second Ksanders. the Bayliner 38 is one heckuva value.

We're still voting for Sea Rangers!

Delia Rosa wrote:
We're still voting for Sea Rangers!

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*Never been on one in person, but from the photos they look great!

Another older boat I like are the 1970's Meridian pilot house models

ksanders wrote:Whatever you decide, you are going from what is probably a newer searay to a certainly older and larger boat. You are going to be in for maintenance experiences that come with a older boat. Be careful and keep in mind that when you buy a large boat you are also buying the previous owners. Well maintained older boats will stand out mechanically. Look beyond the quality of the exterior wax job and think about how the boat was mechanically maintained.

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*Well said but perhaps with the exception of TFers seldom followed. This is where the admiral can get you in trouble. It may look nice but if you are spending all your time fixin things you'll reget it soon enough.

And I may get in trouble here too. You're going from a Sea Ray that probably did 20 kts plus. Just be sure you're OK cruising at less than 10 kts and what restrictions you'll deal with vs your Sea Ray. It's a different type of boating. Not warning, just sayin.

timjet wrote:
And I may get in trouble here too. You're going from a Sea Ray that probably did 20 kts plus. Just be sure you're OK cruising at less than 10 kts and what restrictions you'll deal with vs your Sea Ray. It's a different type of boating. Not warning, just sayin.

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*That exact issue is why we chose the boat we have.

Our old boat was a 28' ocean going cabin cruiser that I put a 375HP mercruiser in. Cruise speed was 27 knots.

I REALLY wanted to buy a Nordhavn 46*named Salvation II that was for sale at*for*great price in the Seattle area. I had read about that exact boat in Voyaging Under Power. A proven world traveler.

My admrial wanted nothing to do with a boat that could only do 7 knots. We fought and argued over this time and time again. In the end she put her foot down, and that was that. No slow boat!

My compromise was to buy a boat that is comfortable at 7 knots but can cruise at 15 knots. Thats why I named the boat Lisas Way. Of course I plan on going slow and enjoying the ride, but its going to take some sea time at hull speed to get my admrial comfortable with that pace.

Did*I get a good boat? Of course. My boat is allot more comfortable and roomy than the Nordhavn*I wanted. But in getting that boat I gave up the ability to set sail for anywhere tomorrow. Now I'm coastal cruising, abet in comfort.

To mirror what TIMJET posted, make sure your admrial in REALLY on board with your boat choice. If not, you could find yourself out of boating very quickly.


-- Edited by ksanders on Friday 9th of March 2012 09:59:32 AM

ksanders wrote:timjet wrote:
And I may get in trouble here too. You're going from a Sea Ray that probably did 20 kts plus. Just be sure you're OK cruising at less than 10 kts and what restrictions you'll deal with vs your Sea Ray. It's a different type of boating. Not warning, just sayin.

Click to expand...

*That exact issue is why we chose the boat we have.

Our old boat was a 28' ocean going cabin cruiser that I put a 375HP mercruiser in. Cruise speed was 27 knots.

I REALLY wanted to buy a Nordhavn 46*named Salvation II that was for sale at*for*great price in the Seattle area. I had read about that exact boat in Voyaging Under Power. A proven world traveler.

My admrial wanted nothing to do with a boat that could only do 7 knots. We fought and argued over this time and time again. In the end she put her foot down, and that was that. No slow boat!

My compromise was to buy a boat that is comfortable at 7 knots but can cruise at 15 knots. Thats why I named the boat Lisas Way. Of course I plan on going slow and enjoying the ride, but its going to take some sea time at hull speed to get my admrial comfortable with that pace.

Did*I get a good boat? Of course. My boat is allot more comfortable and roomy than the Nordhavn*I wanted. But in getting that boat I gave up the ability to set sail for anywhere tomorrow. Now I'm coastal cruising, abet in comfort.

To mirror what TIMJET posted, make sure your admrial in REALLY on board with your boat choice. If not, you could find yourself out of boating very quickly.



-- Edited by ksanders on Friday 9th of March 2012 09:59:32 AM

*A lot of solid advice for anyone in this thread. timjet and ksanders have just offered some true wisdom. My admiral is fine with slow lazy paced sailing however she has no patience for that same pace in a cabin cruiser. She thought she wanted a trawler(or, I thought she did) then we went out for the day on a couple of them with friends, she loved the features and layouts but hated the speed limitations.

I belong to a sailing forum and read posts there and here of men who have a hard time understanding why the wives do not like going on the boat. There is more to boat ownership than maintenance and expenses. You can always get more money but you can't just run down and get another wife to enjoy the boat with.

You can always get more money but you can't just run down and get another wife to enjoy the boat with.


My favorite cruising book SEA GYPSY by Peter Tangvald opens with his 3rd wife walking out down the dock.

Gary, theres a 41' President for sale at Calibre Yacht Sales in North Vancouver http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/President-Tri-Cabin-2413804/North-Vancouver/Canada
We belong to the Centre Bay Yacht Station where that boat is also a member...and she's very nice!
Welcome aboard. - Boyd

Hi Boyd, Yes I have seen that President on yachtworld. Planning a trip to mainland next week to see a few boats and that is one of them. You've been on the boat?
I have looked at a few boats in the last couple of days but nothing exciting so far. Lots of really neglected, tired old boats out there. I am picky about maintenance etc and I want an owner.... Like me. Haha. I may also look at planing boats , and just run them slow. Some of the aft cabin Bayliners, etc have great layouts.
Cheers, Gary

ksanders wrote:
I'm going to get in trouble here...
Here's where I'm going to get in trouble...
In the PACNW the Bayliner 38 ......

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*I don't think you got into trouble at all.* Your post was right on the money in my opinion.* For example I've met a lot of people with Bayliners of different models who use them more and get more enjoyment from them than some owners of "high-end," "high-status" cruisers who I've met.

It's not the boat nearly as much as it's the owner.

The advice to be careful in selecting a boat applies equally to Grand Banks, Fleming, Nordhavn, etc. as it does to Bayliners, CHBs, Tolly's, Nordic Tugs, and so forth.* Any of those makes can be great, and any of them can be junk.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 12th of March 2012 01:27:26 PM

Gary, sorry so late to answer. No I've never been onboard "Our Secret" but I do remember the first time I saw her come in to dock at Centre Bay and I was quite smitten. By all outward appearances she's been very well cared for. It just so happens I'm presently working with one of the ex-brokers at Calibre Yachts. I don't know if he was with Calibre when Our Secret came*into their agency but I'll make a point of asking about the boat next time I see him. - Boyd*

well, still looking for the next boat. Wondering if anyone has any info on Vantare yachts? I looked at a very nice 44 ft sun deck with 3208 cats. I do not know anything about this brand, who made them , hull construction, problems etc.
Any collective wisdom much appreciated

thanks, Gary

islandmech wrote:
well, still looking for the next boat. Wondering if anyone has any info on Vantare yachts? I looked at a very nice 44 ft sun deck with 3208 cats. I do not know anything about this brand, who made them , hull construction, problems etc.
Any collective wisdom much appreciated

thanks, Gary

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*Gary, I'd send a PM to a member named Dswizzler. He and his wife own a 58' Vantare and really seem quite fond of it.

timjet said:

*And I may get in trouble here too. You're going from a Sea Ray that probably did 20 kts plus. Just be sure you're OK cruising at less than 10 kts and what restrictions you'll deal with vs your Sea Ray. It's a different type of boating. Not warning, just sayin.

Click to expand...

Agreed, there are trawlers that are displacement only, round bottoms, and they roll in a beam sea. Very different from go-fast boats, which actually ride well because they have fat-assed sterns and hard chines (square sides) for planing, that resist roll.

My preference is for the latter, because you can always idle a big diesel, even motor on just one, like I do at times, but you can't push a Lehman 120 any harder than a rope.

That said, the key engine is the autopilot. Point your Lehman, sit out on the foredeck with your remote, and read your messages. That's cruisin' - being able to hear yourself think. - Best

djones44 said:

Agreed, there are trawlers that are displacement only, round bottoms, and they roll in a beam sea. Very different from go-fast boats, which actually ride well because they have fat-assed sterns and hard chines (square sides) for planing, that resist roll.

Best

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While a flat square wide stern might resist roll, once it gets to rolling the motion can be very snappy and uncomfortable...assuming you are not on plane.

Baker said:

While a flat square wide stern might resist roll, once it gets to rolling the motion can be very snappy and uncomfortable...assuming you are not on plane.

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Very true. One of the benefits of planing power, or a short plow, is to get out of an irritating sea and go for a run on some pretence. Sits well with the crew,too.

This seems to be an old post that was resurrected for some reason. Just want to say that the hard chine hull with its snap roll is not always a problem if the boat has the reserve power to move out at mid teen k levels. I find when it gets a little rolly that the extra speed 15-16 K brings the boat up on top of the waves and my boat becomes more stable than most true hull speed trawlers which tend to slow down in those seas. The high powered sports fishing boats carry this technique to the extreme and bomb along at 30+K in significant seas. I learned this lesson when I used to sail a high speed multi hull which took waves much better at speed popping off the tops of waves rather than bashing into them. The main draw back to this technique in my present boat and previous lobster boat is a wet ride the WW need to be in good working order. The other benefit to this technique in places like the PNW is at 15K you are out of the bad seas in one to two hours while a displacement trawler that has to slow down may take a beating for 4 or more hours and end up at the anchorage having to scrounge for a spot. No doubt that if crossing big water for several days or a few weeks the round full displacement hull may be a wiser choice.

eyschulman said:

This seems to be an old post that was resurrected for some reason. Just want to say that the hard chine hull with its snap roll is not always a problem if the boat has the reserve power to move out at mid teen k levels. I find when it gets a little rolly that the extra speed 15-16 K brings the boat up on top of the waves and my boat becomes more stable than most true hull speed trawlers which tend to slow down in those seas. The high powered sports fishing boats carry this technique to the extreme and bomb along at 30+K in significant seas.

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This escape route saved me from dire possibilities when I was motoring up Johnstone Strait in BC in 2008. After leaving a wonderful lunch at a heavenly German cuisine shoreside eatery, we came around the corner of Johnston to face the NW coming down, on a rising tide. I don't know where the tides meet, but I do know they all get together there to think it over, and goose whoever's in the net.

I was. With my new wife I was in a Tolly 26' downgrading from a Canoe 37', as the Market wonted (cruel winds there...) and the 4' chop that presented was not taking offers. My wife banged her head, I took the helm. We couldn't just idle into this, as we were losing leeway and the east shore was granite and agitated all the way in (to a hard beach). Headed for shipwreck.

I recalled a similar incident off Lasqueti, trying to get back to Half Moon Bay, when I'd had a 26' Turner in 1976 (you could see green through the lapstrake in these seas). Must have been a 6' chop, rounding Texada, but definitely a no-go zone at idle. All smashed to pieces and soon, if I watched.

In both cases I reached down for two things I had taken care of: the running gear was in first class shape, and had sufficient power. In both cases I powered and coped until I had some altitude, and suddenly I was scooting across the wavetops, no issues.

Never forgot that, or ever want to lose it. Drive away from it.

I think the prime criterion is "shed kept" for a PNW vessel. You could keep a Duncan Phyffe in a boat house, to no ill effect, whereas a DeFever will be on it knees in a decade in the rain.