wood types for teak jointing and samson post

I am going to epoxy and paint my teak window frames . I did the first test one with no problems. but my screen frames and next window frame have rotten wood in the joints .(falling apart ) the teak is in good enough shape to epoxy .


so what type of wood can I use to repair the corner joints that will not rot ?


also I am going to have to replace the Samson post. what types of wood are generally used? I need a 4.5" x 7' piece . I don't want to paint it .


I'm going to try to add some pics .


thanks for any help .

I always try to replace woid with what I took out -- teak or mahogany.

But, oak is also a good and traditional wood and very available.

Also I used life seal on the first one . It seems to have worked

it's the wood that's in the back side it must not be teak because its all that rotted. I do not know where to get teak around here. thanks for the advice would white oak look ok for the Samson post? I use mine on for my storm lines so it also needs to be strong

timb said:

would white oak look ok for the Samson post? I use mine on for my storm lines so it also needs to be strong

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The best option in my opinion is black locust. It is highly rot resistant and very strong. You could epoxy and varnish, varnish only, or leave it raw.

White oak is also a decent choice. If you are not painting it you will need to pay close attention to the end grain (which I assume is on top) and should probably saturate it with either epoxy followed by varnish or boat soup (google the term on Wooden Boat Forum if you don't have your own recipe). White oak looks fine. No red oak - too prone to rot.

Douglas Fir is also a good choice for weight to strength. But I'm not a fan of how it looks unpainted. You may like it, though. Nevertheless, it's a good choice and readily available.

Wood is generally not something you repair.
It’s something you replace.
Use what’s left as a pattern and cut out new pieces .. frames in your case.
The problem w that is that the replaced pieces don’t quite look like the wood you don’t replace. You could replace all the window frames and paint them dark barn red .. or even black. You could even use black plastic .. UHMW ?

But once wood has rotted it needs to be replaced.

Re Bkay’s post black walnut would be a similar choice. Mostly people don’t use it because of it’s association w caskets. Walnut was probably used for caskets because of it’s resistance to rot. I think it’s very resistant to swelling and shrinking too. An excellent boat building wood actually.

Oak has been mentioned and would prolly work fairly well to very well. White oak is the best oak but even red oak could be used. Walnut would be better but availability is limited. With oak staining (use scrap pcs to test) before varnishing to a darker color would make your repair not stand out and look odd. But if you did a good enough job standing out may not be a bad thing.

Bkay said:

The best option in my opinion is black locust. It is highly rot resistant and very strong. You could epoxy and varnish, varnish only, or leave it raw.

White oak is also a decent choice. If you are not painting it you will need to pay close attention to the end grain (which I assume is on top) and should probably saturate it with either epoxy followed by varnish or boat soup (google the term on Wooden Boat Forum if you don't have your own recipe). White oak looks fine. No red oak - too prone to rot.

Douglas Fir is also a good choice for weight to strength. But I'm not a fan of how it looks unpainted. You may like it, though. Nevertheless, it's a good choice and readily available.

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thanks I will check around the post has a stainless cap on it. the black walnut seems like it will be expensive .(from a quick search ) ill ask a friend that may have a small sawmill . would red cedar heart work?

Nomad Willy said:

Wood is generally not something you repair.
It’s something you replace.
Use what’s left as a pattern and cut out new pieces .. frames in your case.
The problem w that is that the replaced pieces don’t quite look like the wood you don’t replace. You could replace all the window frames and paint them dark barn red .. or even black. You could even use black plastic .. UHMW ?

With oak staining (use scrap pcs to test) before varnishing to a darker color would make your repair not stand out and look odd. But if you did a good enough job standing out may not be a bad thing.

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the teak is fine it just has the wood laid in from the back to joint the corners rotting . and I want it to stick out as little as possible .(I already stick out bad enough). I hate wood and fiberglass work and have a lot to do.


thanks

One question, is your wood visible or will it be painted, this will be your main driver when choosing. If visible you need to choose it to be also appealing if not plywood sandwich epoxied and fibreglass is an option.

L

The original "biscuits" look like they were a plywood to me. The grain appears to change direction on the deeper levels of rot. A piece of regular wood that size and thickness would have limited strenght. if you were painting you could use any material. Maybe a FRP panel of the right thickness? or just replace with a similar good grade marine ply.

How about IPE, available as decking in a lot of places.. doesn't rot.. hard as steel


HOLLYWOOD

If I understand him right;
The "corner lock" wood pieces do not go through the frame to the
visible finished surface. Blind dado?
Therefor he can use any wood that is rot resistant and dimensionally stable,
appearance won't be an issue.

Ted

yes. you can't see the joint wood from the front but it's getting painted any way.

ok we had some oak trim and made pieces for the joints I have 2 fitted. I have one more to fit then I will epoxy them together . and try to get them ready to paint.


I'm going to keep looking for white oak or walnut for the Samson post . the only affordable pieces I have seen are white oak slabs for mantels . and they would need to be ripped and planed .

I looked for ipe but did not find anything larger 4x4 (3.5x3.5)


thanks for the suggestions

Hi Timb,

What area are you in? Maybe someone knows of a supplier.

Also, check marine salvage places if any are near you. They often have old wood or wooden things that can be bought and cut up.

Cheers!
-Greg

I think I would just replace the window with a new aluminum window. Then replace the other windows as time and budget allow. Do it once and be done with it.

gkesden said:

Hi Timb,

What area are you in? Maybe someone knows of a supplier.

Also, check marine salvage places if any are near you. They often have old wood or wooden things that can be bought and cut up.

Cheers!
-Greg

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the boat is on the nc coast mid state . and I live in the middle of NC and have a friend who drives to and from the southern NC coast every week . so anywhere in mid or eastern NC would be doable .
thanks

We used red mahogany to remake and repair painted windows etc some years ago, inside and outside frame as necessary, and it seems to have held up well. I helped lift the plank the pieces were cut from, it was a heavy dense wood.
Comment above about replacing with an aluminum(we say/spell it aluminium here in OZ) window is good in a way. If I refit I will replace 6 windows with aluminum, but doing one would look odd. I replaced al. windows like for like on a previous boat, surprisingly cost effective, as well as greatly improving the boat.

Purple heart is a good choice for trim, railings etc. Straight grain and good to work with. It turns a nice teak-brown in sunlight and takes an oil finish very well. Saturate the old wood, if you plan to keep any of it, with cpes, it will chase the moisture and the rot and stop it. You will need to varnish over the cpes as it has no uv resistance.

If you are going to paint over the new wood, Oak may be fine. If you plan to varnish, don't use Oak. It doesn't hold varnish as well as teak and when moisture gets in, as it will, it goes black and can't be restored without scraping or grinding down through all of the black, which can be a long way.

Hey TimB,

It has been a while since I spent much time in NC, but you are actually in a good place for hardwood suppliers. There are some big places off of 40 mid state near Hickory and also near Wilmington and Ashville. The places off 40 mid statw have their roots in the old furniture industry, Ashville restoration work, and Wilmington coastal homes and marine stuff.

I'd just google "hardwood supply" or "exotic wood" and North Carolina. It has been too long,for,me to make a recommendation, but a couple minutes googling turned up about 3 places that looked spot on.

IF you live in a farming area Cedar is great for rot resistance and can frequently be found in planks for making fences at farm supply places.

IPE is also great , but denser and harder to work with , although its use in patio decking makes it avilable in more areas.

If your trim is to be painted Azek or similar plastic is cheap and lasts "forever".

timb said:

would red cedar heart work?

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Unfortunately I have not worked with red cedar in that application so I can't give you any first hand input (at least, that's worth listening to). It's a very soft wood and is often used to make the wedges that get driven around the samson post to hold it fast. I'm just not sure how a softer wood like that would work - I also depends on the actual setup you are using (length, diameter, etc) and whether you can upsize to make up for a lower strength to weight.

In your area, if I was going to experiment I'd be inclined to try cypress (aka juniper - which is readily available near you) before trying red cedar unless you have a knowledgeable person who suggests otherwise.

Again, I don't know the diameter you need, but I'd be more inclined to laminate my own post with a choice wood over using a substandard wood just because it can be made from a single piece.

Good luck.

Many people are allergic to the dust and gasses coming off Ipe when it is being shaped.
What about cypress? It is a good wood for wet environments but a bit hard to get the grain to lay down. You have to varnish it several times, with sanding in between each coat.

thanks for all the suggestions . i will try the hardwood store here and see what they have . it seems there is no clear answer. i may try the laminating .

now Dave has me thinking of new windows (man they are high). i already ordered all new canvas so the boat budget is in trouble this year . i may get the window i have out back together and focus on the Samson post . it will include an anchor locker rebuild .

thanks again

Boat budget?
Be flexible.

Nomad Willy said:

Boat budget?
Be flexible.

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i have flexed it . it's starting to look like a horse shoe . I cut one of the diesel tanks out last month. if i can ever get through to Moeller customer service i'm ordering two tanks to replace it with.

If I thought I could maintain this finish I would not paint the windows

That top pic looks real nice. If that is what you have after some sanding, I’m not sure what the problem is. What’s the finish that you used?

If the issue is the rotted connectors on the back, take them out and replace. To make them last, coat with a penetrating epoxy. Really that teak looks restorable. As far as new pieces, there are no local yards that do wood repairs? They always have small pieces around. Also try that marine consignment shop in Oriental, they might have some teak scraps lying around.

I have done some unusual things joining wood to wood as in using old bronze screws set in epoxy or PL premium construction adhesive mixed with sawdust. Sometimes I have used SS deck screws or ribbed SS nails with heads removed. As long as it is hidden from site.

I might also use wood like a little piece of oak or teak, whatever I think would work ok.
Definitely I stay away from using wood dowels, I just the old screw or nail set in glue. I have also used big rusty nails set in epoxy, as long as it cant get wet, no rusting can happen.

I have these back together I used oak(I think). and there is some thickened epoxy that shows . I need to paint the window frame. I have already painted the other one on the starboard side. I coated them with west system epoxy and may varnish the screen frames to see how that looks .I'm thinking of straight varnish only for the sliding hatch to see if I can keep up with it . the painting of the window frames was a reaction to trying to keep maintenance down and hide defects from the boat being left natural/unmaintained for so long .here is the aft hatch I don't want to paint it or the front one . I look at seattleboatguys videos that is the same boat as mine and really want to get closer to that. Though I know mine has a long way ,and a lot of boat units to go.