Hyunatic steering failure reports

Here is the question...

Has anybody here ever suffered, or heard of a complete failure of a hyunatic steering system that did not result from a fluid loss???

Even if you have had a fluid loss and failure It would be interesting to hear about it.

The reason I ask is that as part of replacing my autopilot pump, i am in a position to install isolation valves, not just for the pump, but for the helm stations as well. I could even install a second autopilot pump, and even connect it to a 12V switch creating a electric operated steering station.

Anything I do to increase the complexity of the system also introduces risk of leaks though.

I have never experienced or even heard about a Hyunatic steering system failure though, so perhaps I’m over thinking this and should just install the new pump and enjoy my boat.

So... Please do tell about Hyunatic steering failures you have experienced, so we can determine how often they occur, and if isolation valves alone could be used to restore functionality.

Fluid loss is not the cause, the cause is that which created the fluid loss. They are very simple systems. A complete loss of pressure in the tank might cause extreme difficulty, but not total failure, I don't think (but don't know).

The only failure I had with the system was the helm pump getting air in it and requiring 25+ turns lock to lock. Interestingly, the autopilot pump continued to work flawlessly.

If you truly want to over think this, install a float switch in the reservoir to trigger an alarm if you develop a fluid leak. Guess you could also add a pressure switch to alarm if you loose reservoir air pressure.

Ted

Interesting subject. I hope others chime in. I am looking at their under mount 2 cubic inch helm pump for my boat. I thought about a second station on the aft cabin back deck for docking. And electric joystick for steering sounds like fun maybe not in function though. My boat's cabin top will not be substantial enough for a flybridge.





Oops, it's a Seastar back mount helm.
SeaStar Solutions

When we bought the OA 18 months ago, the seals on the steering ram (probably the wrong term) in the lazerette were leaking. Between Ft Lauderdale and Miami enough fluid leaked to where we lost steering; fortunately in the ocean. Steering with the engines in the swell carved a nice "S" in the water. My son said not to worry, just looked like all the other drunks offshore Miami. It was a bit exciting taking her up the Miami River to Cay Marine for a little work. The seals were replaced along with the lost fluid and the system has worked well since. We have a Hynautic system.

We had a complete fluid loss. The cause was a line that was damaged by a self tapping, over length screw that had been subtly abrading the hydraulic hose for no telling long before it sprung a leak.

Biggest problem was cleaning up the hydraulic fluid mess out of the bilge. Other than that, it was an easy repair.

And, we drove the boat home and back into the slip just using the engines to steer, also quite easily.

When we sea-trialed our boat, the wheel took far too many turns to steer. The culprit was a dried out seal in the auto-pilot that leaked out the oil in the system. When ahead and bought the boat, removed the pump, replaced the seal.....and that was 21 years ago.

Buddy of mine bought a boat last fall with Hynautic steering. Everything was fine for 2 days moving the boat to his home. Then the front seal on the helm pump shaft started leaking. As he didn't have a working autopilot, it went from minor to major in a matter of hours. Replacing the seal requires disassembling the helm pump. As preventative maintenance, I'm probably going to have the seals in the pump replaced and the rudder cylinder rebuilt. While I think isolating parts of the system may be a good backup plan, rebuilding helm pump(s) and rudder cylinder is probably a better plan.

Ted

My Hynautic has a manual air pump on top of the reservoir, the system works perfectly except the air pressure bleeds off slowly down to about 15 psi, working pressure is supposed to be 25-30 psi. I replaced the "O" ring under the plug with no improvement, and suspect the seals in the manual pump are leaking. I am hoping someone interested in this thread can clue me into where to get parts to replace the seal...

I am not having any luck finding anything online. Fingers crossed

Thanks...

AKDoug said:

My Hynautic has a manual air pump on top of the reservoir, the system works perfectly except the air pressure bleeds off slowly down to about 15 psi, working pressure is supposed to be 25-30 psi. I replaced the "O" ring under the plug with no improvement, and suspect the seals in the manual pump are leaking. I am hoping someone interested in this thread can clue me into where to get parts to replace the seal...

I am not having any luck finding anything online. Fingers crossed

Thanks...

Click to expand...

Is the pump intended to be permanently attached on yours? Mine just has a schrader valve on top of the reservoir to connect a bike pump. You remove the pump and cap the valve when done adjusting pressure.

I got rid of my pump with an SAE oring to pipe thread adapter and a pipe thread to Schrader valve adapter. Pretty simple conversion.

Ted

We had a complete fluid loss due to a failed seal on the steering ram last summer coming down the west coast. The ram had just been replaced 5 months earlier because the former ram had pitting on the shaft causing premature seal failure. We can only assume that the New ram had dried up seals. By the way, the ram is manufactured by Capilano. Anyway My go to guy back in Portland (Jimmy Palmer) overnighted the rebuild kit and after finding a local machine shop in Ft. Brag we had it back up and running. Thanks to Amazon we also received enough hydraulic fluid to fill the system and a few quarts to spare.
I highly recommend you have an emergency tiller onboard, it ain’t easy to steer with the tiller, but we were able to get the boat into the marina for repairs.

Kevin, I like your idea of isolation valves at the helms to enable maintenance without as much fluid loss. I presently have valves only at the pump. My only Hynautic heartburn was difficulty bleeding all the air out after a pump change, but that was probably just me.

Replacing it with an external pump being required is an option, but it is very convenient to just be able to pump it up with the original reservoir cap/pump. One less thing to carry on board or to worry about having. The pump is built into the reservoir fill cap.

Teleflex sells the Hynautic system and I would assume parts. Have you tried contacting them?

Ted

Not yet, just by searching the Internet to schematic diagrams and part lists for Hynautic Hydraulic Steering, but I will send them an e-mail in inquiry.

Thank you for that piece of information!

Doug

Kevin,

I think you are over-thinking it.

I would have a spare hydraulic pump and a couple of spare hoses with the correct fittings.
You should have valves to isolate the pump if need be.

That's it.

Kevin,
I bet you handled this some 9 years ago when this was a new thread... sorry to wake it back up on you but was looking for a rebuild kit for my manual pump

Doug

I was losing pressure but no fluid so did a soap test around the fittings on the tank and found the lid of the tank leaking. Took it apart to replace the gasket and fluid. Found some pitting in the aluminum, cleaned it up and so far ( down to Keys and starting back) all is good.

Never had a failure with a different style system .

An small pump was belted to the engine that fed from a 10 Ga tank.

The wheel simply had a steering valve that ported the fluid L or R.

Auto pilot has ( 2 ) 1/2A solenoid valves , so the Robertson control box lasted forever.

A hyd windlass would operate with the small pump , with hyd cooling from the set of hoses was simply left in bilge water. The bilge pump float was set to leave a couple of inches.

A joy stick would have been a snap to install,

All I can say is this is a common Maine setup for lobster folks , and in 15 years it needed nothing , although I did carry a spare V belt.


The setup is OTS and probably less than half the cost of the std "yacht" system.

I have never had a total failure but I do have a small leak in my system and about every second or third year to pressure goes low enough that I loose steering from the fly bridge. When that happens I just steer from below until I can add a little air, I keep a bicycle pump on board. No big deal.

However, in the event of total failure for whatever reason I have a stout oak pole stored in the lazerette which fits onto a bracket on the rudder post which I can use to steer the boat to a safe port "tiller" style. Never had to use it though.

pete

Lost steering

We have an upper and lower steering station on our 2005 motorsailer. They are Capliano Teleflex 1250Vs. I had the fluid topped off on the upper station before making the delivery trip home with no problem. After we got home I noticed leaking from the lower helm. My marina agreed to replace the seal in the lower unit over the winter. It turns out the mechanic may not have realized there was an upper helm (it has a fitted canvas cover) and bled the lower helm after the repair.

We launched the boat and upon leaving our slip realized we had no steering (it seemed fine at the dock). We are long keeled ketch with a single engine. The autopilot joystick and the bow thruster got us back in our slip . Phweew!

The mechanics added more fluid and said it would be fine until they got time to rebuild the pumps. This time we got our of the marina but found we could barely stay in the half mile wide channel. We looked drunk. There was a 30 second delay before the rudder would respond. There was no way we could get back into our marina full of million dollar boats. We called the marina and they kindly sidetowed us back into our slip.

Our boat has been in the water since the end of April but we haven't successfully used it yet as of June 22nd waiting for the marina to correct this.
We don't care about the money we just want to use our boat safely in this perfect wearther.

Slowboattochina said:

.
We don't care about the money we just want to use our boat safely in this perfect wearther.

Click to expand...

you should always care about your money.

this is not a big deal just bleed the system right.

I don't believe you need any rebuilding

By that I mean I am not holding the marina responsible for not bleeding properly and getting all the air in. I believe both pumps are leaking slightly are the shaft or the adjuster for the number of turns. I could probably get the pumps out myself and rebuild them. I will if they don't get on it soon. I want zero leaks or I could do a lot of damage!

Hynautic hydraulic steering systems are basically the same as all the other brands, with the addition of the pressure reservoir and the relief valve block.
Most of the problems I’ve encountered with the Hynautic involve these two parts, so I’ve removed them, and have been running without them for years.
As far as I can tell, the pressurization of the system is to simplify bleeding the system, so if you’re patient, you will be able to bleed it successfully without the pressure pot.
I repurposed the reservoir to use as a non pressurized reserve fluid tank, mounted under the dash, and slightly higher than the helm pump. It then needs to be vented rather than pressurized.
The relief valve was a big restriction in my system, 1/2” lines reduced down to 1/4” valves totally defeating the advantage of having larger lines. It’s gone too, and the helm has lost its original “notchy” feel, and requires much less effort to turn.
I know this will stir up the hornets, but my favored steering fluid is ATF/diesel fuel at 3:1 dilution.
If I felt that the steering was too stiff, I would not hesitate to adjust the mix to remedy that.
I’ve worked with hydraulic systems all my life, and have found that “factory” is not always the best, unless there are warranty issues, a rare thing on 40 year old boats and beat up construction equipment!

Slowboattochina said:

By that I mean I am not holding the marina responsible for not bleeding properly and getting all the air in. I believe both pumps are leaking slightly are the shaft or the adjuster for the number of turns. I could probably get the pumps out myself and rebuild them. I will if they don't get on it soon. I want zero leaks or I could do a lot of damage!

Click to expand...

If you still have leaks, you'll have to address those before you bleed or it's a waste of time and you'll get to do it again soon. You can order rebuild kits from Seastar and the work isn't very difficult.

The 1250V rebuild should be very similar to the older unit I rebuilt (and documented) on a thread here, you might take a look at that to see what kind of job you are getting into. You won't have a uniflow valve to deal with like I did on mine.

The bleeding process for yours is in this document:

http://www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Capilano-Steering-Cylinders-Book.4-Rev.L-165025L.pdf

The bleeding process doesn't look like fun, the older system with the uniflow valve was MUCH simpler to bleed.

The marina mechanics have both pumps out of the boat on the bench and disassembled waiting for the rebuild kits to arrive today. Hopefully when reinstalled and bled we will be able to control where the boat goes...yay