What is the best Used Trawler for the money 32 - 43 range?

Ok, here is my story:* We lived aboard a Hunter 460 2001 sailboat for 5 years.* We just sold her last year and since the kids are older now, we are ready to get back out on the water and travel more.* We traveled up and down the ICW, Bahamas, Mexico, Beliz, Gautamela and Honduras.* We miss the water dearly, but the wife does not miss the blue water.

After we bought our preFab sailboat*we learned over time that sailboats like Morgan, Irwin and Endeavour were more solid and realible than our boat.* Sure!* It was convenient to pick up the phone to Hunter to order parts, but after travelling in blue water a few years, I realized they were right.

So my question for the trawler folks is:

Given our back ground, we are new to trawlers, what do you recommend to be the best used Trawler for the money?* 32 to 43 foot, 1980 to 2000.* Were sticking to the*ICW and Bahamas*this time.* But this time we are wanting to*go inside the US water ways and see all the stuff we couldn't get to with a 63.5' mast.* OUCH.

AMMENDED due to not enouch info posted:

Since we are used to slow moving engines, speed is not as neccessarily important as fuel economy.* The fuel has to be diesel.* Less wood the better.* We do like the fly bridges and sundeck models.* Dual helms I assume is covered with fly bridges?* Ready to go is not as important as a solid fiberglass boat with a solid diesel engine.* If I have those two items covered, then I can deal with the rest.* We need at least one state room.* I do prefer having it in the bow so I can hear the anchor having issues.* Two engines sound like a backup to me.* I used sail and engine so I always had a backup.* I like the walk around deck better than the toe rail business.* I must have a propain galley.* Priced around $50K would be nice.* We prefer to anchor so not swinging like crazy while we are on the hook would be realy nice.* The HUNTER has a lot of windage.

To Recap:
Engines: 2 (but we want fuel economy over speed)
Fuel:* diesel
Stateroom:* at least 1 and in the bow
Length:* 32 - 42
Year : 1980 - 2000
Water: 200g would be nice
Features:* Fly bridge, sundeck, generator, lots of high test chain
instead of rope when it comes to anchoring.* We anchor 95% of time.

Thank you in advance,
David



-- Edited by geoatl on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 02:26:22 PM



-- Edited by geoatl on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 02:27:17 PM



-- Edited by geoatl on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 02:38:54 PM



-- Edited by geoatl on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 02:39:59 PM


-- Edited by geoatl on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 02:40:59 PM

This is a loaded question that doesn't have enough information. What money range? What is more important to you(size, twins/single, V-berth or double staterooms, cockpit or aft cabin, dual helms, SPEED, absolutely ready to go or needing some TLC, exterior woodwork, anything else pertinent to your cruising styles and desires). And then your going to find that everyone has a bellybutton!

geoatl wrote:

Given our back ground, we are new to trawlers, what do you recommend to be the best used Trawler for the money?

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*I have a similar question for you.* How long is a piece of string?

There is no right answer to your question.* A "high-end" cruiser like a Fleming, Grand Banks, Krogen, etc. can be a piece of junk depending on its history, and a "low-end" cruiser like a Bayliner can be in superb condition depending on its history.

I think you are making the mistake a lot of potential boat buyers make, which is focusing on the boat, not on you.

I think buying a boat is just like buying a computer, particuarly awhile back when computers and apps were not so universal and compatible.* Used to be the smart way to buy a computer was define what you wanted to do with it, research and decide what software packages would best do what you wanted to do, and then determine which computer would run that software in a user-friendly way and buy it.

The same is true of a boat.* Forget about brands and models at this point.* Define exactly what you want to do with the boat, where you want to go, what the waters and facilities are like.* Are you going to marina-hop or anchor out?* Short cruises, long cruises?* Live aboard?* How fast do you want to go?* How important is fuel economy to your boating?* And on and on and on.

Once you've defined what you want the cruiser to do for you, then think about the boat itself and what it would take to meet your what-it-needs-to-do-for-me list.

One engine or two?* Propane galley or electric?* One head or two?* Flying bridge, pilothouse, or none of the above?* Diesel, gas?* Tri-cabin, sedan, europa, motoryacht (full width aft cabin)?* Full walk around deck or a bit more interior space and a toe-rail down the side of the boat?

Once you get that list drawn up, then you can start thinking about what kind of boat because the field has been narrowed a lot by your requirements.* If you decide you want a pilothouse boat, well, that rules out Grand Banks, CHB and the other so-called "Taiwan tralwers, lobsterboats and few other kinds.* But it directs you to Krogan, Nordic Tug, some Bayliner models, and so on.

If you don't do this you're going to be looking at marinas full of boats and scratching your head and wondering, "Which one, which one?"

That plus you will be wading through tons of posts answering your question by saying, "Get a Sabre, get a Grand Banks, get a Nordic Tug, get a Willard, get a........" and on and on and on and you'll pretty much end up where you are now, I think.

You've had plenty of on-the-water experience, so when you arrive at a short list of potential boat makes and models that you believe--- and it doesn't matter squat-all what anyone else believes---- will best meet your requirements you might want to charter an example of the make and model to check it out.* Or find someone with one of their own and wheedle a ride with them so you can see what the boat is like way from the dock.

But were we entering the power cruiser market for the first time, we would take the approach I described above.

This doesn't mean you have to be totally objective like a blindfolded judge.* Your gut, your sense of aesthetics, and your own biases play a role here, too.* If the objective listing of your use and boat capability requiremens points you to a Grand Banks 36 but you don't really like the looks of a GB36 or it has some totally subjective thing you don't like about it, take it off your short list.* Move on to something you like bettter that still meets your requirements.

Because in the end you have to be happy with your choice.

The former CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, Alan Mulally, who I worked with a fair amount before he went over to run Ford, had a sign on his desk that said "Remember, this is suposed to be fun."* Which was his attitude toward the often frustrating, high--pressure, high-risk world of commercial jetliner manufacturing.* The same is true of boating.* If in the overall scheme of things you're not having fun, you should be doing something else other than boating.

So don't let anyone rush you into focusing on a particular make and model of boat at this point.* Recommendations at this point should certainly be noted if for no other reason than you'll know they exist out there as possible candidates.* But take whatever time you need and focus on getting the right boat for you and and not anyone else, and have fun.


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 02:39:46 PM

I updated the detail you asked for twiisted71.

Thanks, David

Alright now you have a "wish list". Get on Yachtworld.com and look at different boats for a couple of weeks in your spare time. Try to get your wife to give her input and really try to hammer down what aspects you both want on your next boat. Think of all the things you REALLY didn't like about the last one. Do you have a dog? Do you need to have easy dinghy access (cockpit with transome door), if you are going to be anchoring alot these are things you need to assess.
Yachtworld is a great resource in that you can see so many boats and which brands offer which layouts, it also will give you some idea of pricing. It will be all over the place for given conditions of the same boat. After you have some real direction then contact a broker or look on CL and start seeing some boats in person and see what meets your expectations and what doesn't really work for you.
As has been mentioned, don't get bogged down with brands yet. I wanted a 34 Mainship. We must have looked at close to a dozen of them after we narrowed our decision down to it. Before that we checked out everything from 44 Defevers to 29 Prairies. We had some "hard sell" brokers try to pressure us but always remember its your money and you have to live with the decision of how you spend it.

You might want to look at the Gulstar Mark I & II's like these two:

http://www.yachtcouncil.com/Used/43...FL?Boatsforsalesearch=basicinfo&vessel=107155

http://www.yachtcouncil.com/Used/43...NC?Boatsforsalesearch=basicinfo&vessel=110977

We live on our Gulstar 44 MC...

First question is how much sweat equity you are willing to invest?

Willing to rip up teak paint, and repair soggy decks?


Second hassle

Back in the 60's and 70's boats were sold bare.

No range , autopilot , self steering ,windlass , heat air' cond ,gen set or even winches on sailboats.

This was so the owner could install what he wanted , not what some add guy thought he wanted , or what the builder could get cheap, like Volvo engines.

Your problem is very few "trawlers" are outfitted to actually cruise , and you will be tossing loads of dockside gear and purchasing cruising gear.

Unfortuniatly the price of the boat will include all the gear headed for the dumpster.

So the next question is how well you can compromise.

Many dock queens really need 24/7 power , how much does a noisemaker 12 hours a day (with luck) bother you?

Personally one of the older solid glass Gulftubs would be my first look.

Mainship 36?

We are in the same position as you except you are one step ahead of us. Your sailboat is gone!! Ours is still up for sale.

Initially we were looking at 40 to 44 footers because we definitely wanted something a little bigger than the Allied 39" we have now. Then we looked at a Mainship 36. Well, our attitude changed slightly. From 'how big could we afford' we shifted to how small can we get away with.

The V-beth is about the same size as we have now.*******************

The mainship has 2 heads instead of one and both are bigger than our current one.

The main salon is about the same as we have now in both looks and feel.

The mainship 36 has a small booth size dining area in the galley as opposed to our table in the salon.

The Galley on the MS 36 is about the same size as our current one.

The MS has an aft cabin (owners stateroom) where our current aft cockpit is.

So far, the MS seems a lot more to the likings of the admiral than our current boat. Then comes the deal maker:

When you go out the main salon on the mainship, you are entering directly into a full enclosure deck on top of the aft cabinwhich in turn is connected to a fully enclosed flybridge.

Only downside I see is the gas engines but that would not be a deal killer for me. *

Not saying a 36 MS is the ideal boat and other manufacturers have pretty close to the same design, however, the 36-38 footers are now in the running.

I also noticed that most trawlers and motoryachts are not really set up well for long range cruising in that they mostly have high electric consumption with the bigger fridges and electric stoves. This can easily be remedied with your current sailboat knowledge.

All I have to do now is get my Allied 39 sold.

Happy hunting

I plugged your info into YachtWorld and here is what they came up with.http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...im=quick&ybw=&sm=3&Ntk=boatsEN&currencyid=100

1980 Trawler Boats For Sale

Attend a Trawlerfest.
If you rule out blue water passages you open up a whole world of opportunities for boats that aren't so heavy, complicated and expensive. A good example is your requirement for twins...totally unnecessary for ICW or inland cruising especially if you spring $130 for unlimited towing...same for diesel.

Attend a Trawlerfest.

If you rule out blue water passages you open up a whole world of opportunities for boats that aren't so heavy, complicated and expensive. A good example is your requirement for twins...totally unnecessary for ICW or inland cruising especially if you spring $130 for unlimited towing...same for diesel.

Just get something that will make the admiral happy.

Thank you all for the feedback. I had been looking at the Main Ships a lot but started thinking they might be in the range of PreFab boats and that started to worry me in regards to quality. I also noticed a comment on another blog about the factory having issues and slowing down to wait for more orders?
We did go to the Trawler Port in Miami this month and frankly it was ugly. Monster boats and nothing in the 30 to 40 range that I could truely appreciate. I have been hearing that the trawlerfest would be better. I will try them next.

Thanks again all who contributed. It was very helpful.
David

geoatl wrote:
*I also noticed a comment on another blog about the factory having issues and slowing down to wait for more orders?

David

Click to expand...

*

In the price range you are looking for the size boat you require don't worry about factory support. *The boat will be so old that there likely will be none even if they are still in business. *Once again don't get hung up on a name, try to think of what ever you buy as having once been commissioned as a one of a kind that you will have to figure out. *mainships have decent build quality esp for the price you can get into one for. *My only lookout for you is the Mk I,II,and IIIs have a tendency to rot out and sag at the sliding cabin door. *but since you aren't looking at this style and want two staterooms don't let this deter you.*

"......but started thinking they might be in the range of PreFab boats and that started to worry me in regards to quality........."

*

Quality encompasses a lot of factors. Generally, Mainship power boats*are comparable to Hunter sailboats. Would I take a Hunter across the Gulf of Mexico? Not even in a dare. Coastal cruising, bays, lakes etc. Hunters are just fine. Actually, great for the price.

If you are going inland or coastal, a Mainship would be just fine.

Inland boating does not require a quality blue water boat. I certainly wouldnt buy a Baba or WestSail for inland lake sailing.

As far as old factory issues, they have probably been addressed by now, if not, a surveyor would pick it up immediately.

If you thought your Hunter had windage issues, wait till u get on a trawler or motoryacht.

*

*

It sounds as if you are looking for my boat, which is listed in the classified section on the website. I was going to type a smilely little emoticon in here, but in all honesty it really fits almost exactly what you are looking for. The only exception is its age, but I would happily compare its overall condition to most boats that are much, much newer.

geoatl wrote:
I had been looking at the Main Ships a lot but started thinking they might be in the range of PreFab boats and that started to worry me in regards to quality.

Click to expand...

How do you describe a pre-fab boat?* Because depending on how you look at it, all fiberglass production boats are "pre-fab."* Hull modings, deck moldings, cabin moldings are made and then assembled together.* Grand Banks even assembles their interior cabins as individual modules in another shop and then "drops" the completed cabin assemblies into the hull.

The methods used to fabricate the hull, deck, etc. will certainly vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.* Some companies like Bayliner used chopper-gun layup for some of their hulls, others like GB, Flemming, etc. lay up their hulls by hand.* Not that chopper gun layup is bad but it's definitely different from hand layup.

The best configuration of boat will depend on how the owner wants to use the boat.* The advantage of a tri-cabin like ours is that if you have guests, you are separated from them by the main cabin which serves as neutral terrirtory.* If one pair wants to sleep in, the other pair can get up and make coffee or take the dog out without having to tromp through the guest's bedroom, which is not the case with a sedan or europa that's too small to have more than one stateroom in the forward part of the boat.* Either you or your guests have to sleep in the main cabin.

A tri-cabin generally has two independent head compartments.* A smaller sedan or europa will generally have only one up forward adjacent to the stateroom.* And I agree with Old Stone that two heads are WAY better than one.

But... a europa has those covered side decks and aft deck which are a major benefit in a rainy, windy climate like ours up here.

There are days we're glad we have a tri-cabin and days we wish we had a europa.* Our next boat if we get one--- the jury's still out on this decision--- will most likely be a pilothouse/europa but it will be large enough to have at least a couple of full cabins up forward and two heads.* So the lack of an aft cabin will not be an issue.

Everything's a trade-off so you have to figure out which configuation will work best for you most of the time.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 29th of February 2012 02:25:44 PM

Marin, interesting what you say about tri cabin and two heads. We too, are planning on moving away from an aft cabin layout and into a salon or Europa style with a cockpit. We spend a ton of time outside on deck, and the cockpit just gives so much more deck space.

Agreed on the separation of the two cabins, we have two kids and it is nice to have our end of the boat at times.

Personally, I'm not a fan of two heads in anything under about 46', they just take up too much space. But we don't have many guests.


-- Edited by Dougcole on Wednesday 29th of February 2012 07:42:50 PM

Most of the time I sleep on the sofa at home.* Perhaps this explains*why we have so far slept in the saloon on the Coot.* (Just doze off*where you are.)* While it can*accommodate five people horizontally, it's really designed to sleep two and entertain four others.

*

Dougcole wrote:
Personally, I'm not a fan of two heads in anything under about 46', they just take up too much space. But we don't have many guests.

Click to expand...

Even without guests we've found on occasion that having two heads is better than just one.* The forward head on our old GB is like a phone booth.* Just big enough to be usable.* So it certainly doesn't take up much space.* But there have been occasions--- very few but it only takes one-- when a problem with the aft head or it's holding tank has precluded the use of the head, so we used the forward head instead.* Also, having two heads--- and ours each have their own holding tank--- really increases the time we can go between pumpouts.* And in this area, particularly as one goes farther north into the Gulf Islands and beyond, pumpouts are few and far between.* And often they are in places we're not going to go.

So based on our experience so far, we would not want aboat of any configuration with only one head.** We have two GPS plotters which provides a backup if we need it.* We feel the same about toilets.

Marin wrote:Even without guests we've found on occasion that having "two heads is better than just one."*

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_____________________________________________

Click to expand...

I always wondered what that phrase meant!

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Seriously, I had two large heads on my 54' sport fisher and although my guests love them, it was a real PITA to keep them functioning properly. Both had separate showers & were very large.

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-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 1st of March 2012 02:56:25 PM

Agree with the second head.* On smaller boats...storage and hanging space is at a premium.* The second head can be a giant wet locker, more storage, hanging locker, on-board dryer (heat cube with the port open), etc..etc..

The few square feet addeed to other spaces isn't really missed but all those other options sure are ...ESPECIALLY*THE LACK*OF A SECOND HEAD*WHEN THE OTHER HEAD IS BROKEN!!!!



-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 1st of March 2012 04:30:17 PM


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 1st of March 2012 04:30:50 PM

.ESPECIALLY THE LACK OF A SECOND HEAD WHEN THE OTHER HEAD IS BROKEN!!!!

WE carry a bailing bucket ( rubber animal feed , does not mar ) for lots of emergencies.

FF wrote:
.ESPECIALLY THE LACK OF A SECOND HEAD WHEN THE OTHER HEAD IS BROKEN!!!!

WE carry a bailing bucket ( rubber animal feed , does not mar ) for lots of emergencies.

Click to expand...

*Good enough..well at least for some ..but the actual space can be a multipurpose room. Heck I've often thought of putting a urinal in one and make mens/womens rooms out of them...

thought of putting a urinal in one

Our Mens urinal is off the side deck, but we anchor out .

Old Stone wrote:
Here I go -

"So based on our experience so far, we would not want aboat of any configuration with only one head. We have two GPS plotters which provides a backup if we need it. We feel the same about toilets."

Marin - I TOTALLY agree, but have to ask - Do your GPS's come with toilet paper?

Click to expand...

*Yes, a sample came with the units but after that you have to buy your own.* I would heartily recommend C-Map's toilet paper as it's quilted, easy to use, and extremely accurate.* In other words, it picks up everything you ask it to.* The only problem we've found with it is that because of its high reliability it doesn't break down in the holding tank as quickly as we'd like.

However, the toilet paper dispenser on our old Echotec plotter, while very basic, is far more* robust than the high-tech dispenser on the Furuno NavNet.

I have heard--- but have no direct experience with it--- that Navionics and Garmin toilet paper is horrible.* Thin, scratchy, very difficult to use efficiently.

Nobletech, Cap'n, and other laptop-based toilet paper is damn near worthless.* And even if* their lower cost deludes you into thinking you can put up with the discomfort and poor perforations that make the stuff very ineffient to use, the Microsoft dispenser that must be used with these brands is simply attrocious.*

My company in its infinite wisdom has converted all the toilet stalls across the company--- Puget Sound, Portland, Salt Lake City, Wichita, St. Louis, Huntsville, Philadelphia, Charleston-- to Microsoft toilet paper dispensers.* I recently learned that this was because Microsoft, in its desperation to make more people like them after its Zune and Windows Vista fiascos, offered my company a huge volume discount that Corporate Finance simply couldn't refuse.*

Like all Microsoft products, with every generation their dispensers get even more bloated with features you dont' need while the ones you do need either don't work with the type of toilet paper you want to use or are so buried in menus that the whole operation of wiping your butt is rendered totally unintuitive.

The only place these sorry-ass Microsoft Type 7 toilet paper dispensers are not used at my company is in Chicago.* There, all the stall dispensers are either Furuno (on the executive floors) or Mac (on the support and finance floors).* So what does that tell you about the dispensers the rest of us are stuck with?

The bottom line in this is if you want a full-function, easy to use GPS chart plotter, get a Furuno and use C-Map toilet paper with it.


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 03:56:45 PM

Marin wrote:
I have heard--- but have no direct experience with it--- that ..... Garmin toilet paper is horrible.* Thin, scratchy, very difficult to use efficiently.

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Well, as the owner of two Garmin MFDs, I now understand why my Preparation H consumption has greatly increased. I thought that it was because of my obsessive attention to detail on the boat, but I now see the light. Thank you Marin.