A Story You Will All Be Interested In Reading
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psneeld
Guru
Sounds like every other anchorage story in squalls that produce more turbulence than expected....with expected results.
A sad story...but a common one. The trick is to figure out how to avoid them.....and that means you must study everyone and promise you will never think like others, including some apparently qualified, experienced captains.
And even then.... the most improbable things can happen.....it's how you plan to and extrictate yourself from situations that minimize or eliminate unwanted results.
A sad story...but a common one. The trick is to figure out how to avoid them.....and that means you must study everyone and promise you will never think like others, including some apparently qualified, experienced captains.
And even then.... the most improbable things can happen.....it's how you plan to and extrictate yourself from situations that minimize or eliminate unwanted results.
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psneeld
Guru
Who is right? Anchotring in the same anchorage or staying where an unsafe situation exists has it's dangers. The comment that mega yachts have adequate anchors is like saying mega yachts and captains are always perfect...just like commercial guys/fishermen....and cruise ship captains...who daily prove otherwise.
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Mark P
Senior Member
I recall taking my SeaRay to Put-in-bay Islands in Lake Erie in the early 80s and we were required to raft on busy weekends. Didn't like it but no choice.
Unfortunately, not all that surprising, even as disappointing as it is. I've seen so many cases of large yachts tossed ashore or into rocks and been in dismay they didn't have anyone on watch. I see so many mistakes in this whole scenario and mostly mistakes of complacency and laziness.
I've been accused of being excessively conservative in such situations but a few things that just strike me. First, I would never raft as the megayachts did. Anchors aren't designed, however large, for multiple boats nor do they protect against the interaction of the boats. If someone pulls in closer to me than I'm comfortable, either they agree to separate further or I move.
Second, I know it's common to leave tenders in the water. Not only is it an open invitation to theft but it complicates all situations. On a boat like the Feadship and Broward for the crews to retrieve and relaunch the tenders is just not a big task. They might say they have their eyes on them, but clearly did not.
That brings to my major objection. The 128' Broward likely had a crew of 7 and the 150' Feadship likely 10 or 11. I don't understand with crews that size on boats that size, not having a crew member on watch. You're not just watching your boat but watching others. Seems the smaller boats alerted themselves to potential danger more quickly than the two megayachts.
The megayachts are used to anchoring in exposed conditions as they often have to anchor and tender in to shore or port. They are fully capable of anchoring and holding in conditions such as encountered. They simply underestimated the risks based on conditions during the day.
Then we get to the damages. I imagine foreign crews and foreign ownership. Easy to identify the owners, difficult to hold them accountable. Likely each boat owner having to file with their own insurer and entrust their insurer to go after the responsible parties. Did anyone report this to the Bahamian Coast Guard? I certainly would have hoped so and they would have come and taken charge. They have the authority to take control and prevent the boats from leaving until satisfied.
If not, the path is long and difficult and may require winning in a maritime court proceeding and then ultimately having the guilty boat arrested in a port somewhere.
For all those who say they're safe boaters and don't need insurance, this is a reminder that even if you are, the other guy may not be. I see the one boat as likely a total loss by the time you add it all up.
I wonder if the megayachts owners were aboard of if they were under charter. I know the Broward is largely a charter yacht with a crew of 7.
I've been accused of being excessively conservative in such situations but a few things that just strike me. First, I would never raft as the megayachts did. Anchors aren't designed, however large, for multiple boats nor do they protect against the interaction of the boats. If someone pulls in closer to me than I'm comfortable, either they agree to separate further or I move.
Second, I know it's common to leave tenders in the water. Not only is it an open invitation to theft but it complicates all situations. On a boat like the Feadship and Broward for the crews to retrieve and relaunch the tenders is just not a big task. They might say they have their eyes on them, but clearly did not.
That brings to my major objection. The 128' Broward likely had a crew of 7 and the 150' Feadship likely 10 or 11. I don't understand with crews that size on boats that size, not having a crew member on watch. You're not just watching your boat but watching others. Seems the smaller boats alerted themselves to potential danger more quickly than the two megayachts.
The megayachts are used to anchoring in exposed conditions as they often have to anchor and tender in to shore or port. They are fully capable of anchoring and holding in conditions such as encountered. They simply underestimated the risks based on conditions during the day.
Then we get to the damages. I imagine foreign crews and foreign ownership. Easy to identify the owners, difficult to hold them accountable. Likely each boat owner having to file with their own insurer and entrust their insurer to go after the responsible parties. Did anyone report this to the Bahamian Coast Guard? I certainly would have hoped so and they would have come and taken charge. They have the authority to take control and prevent the boats from leaving until satisfied.
If not, the path is long and difficult and may require winning in a maritime court proceeding and then ultimately having the guilty boat arrested in a port somewhere.
For all those who say they're safe boaters and don't need insurance, this is a reminder that even if you are, the other guy may not be. I see the one boat as likely a total loss by the time you add it all up.
I wonder if the megayachts owners were aboard of if they were under charter. I know the Broward is largely a charter yacht with a crew of 7.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Surprised I did find something of interest.
Looks like the anchor rode on a sizable boat is attached to the bow at the WL. Do they decrease scope doing that? Wonder how they retrieve the rode and anchor?
Could it be?
The boat is the one w a pink kayak.
Looks like the anchor rode on a sizable boat is attached to the bow at the WL. Do they decrease scope doing that? Wonder how they retrieve the rode and anchor?
Could it be?
The boat is the one w a pink kayak.
OP
OP
menzies
Guru
Willy, that is the snubber point.
The anchor is still deployed as usual, then that line is attached to the chain at the bow and lowered, giving a waterline stress point, rather than having the snubber on a deck cleat.
Many boats either have it at build or retro-fit one
The anchor is still deployed as usual, then that line is attached to the chain at the bow and lowered, giving a waterline stress point, rather than having the snubber on a deck cleat.
Many boats either have it at build or retro-fit one
Everything done with windlass like any other setup.
twistedtree
Guru
The owners/operators of Kya, the boat that the big boats dragged into, are friends of ours. They are about to be hauled for repairs. What a giant hassle, and fortunate nobody was hurt. One of the big boats has actually had the balls to suggest Kya was at fault. I guess the best defense is an aggressive offense.
diver dave
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One time I awoke with some other boat's anchor at my pulpit. With tight lines, imagine how to extricate from that.
Another time, we witnessed a sailboat whizzing by at anchor in Honeymoon Har., which is a pretty terrible place for secure anchoring. Nighttime adds to any confusion too.
All chain rodes can be a real pain when you really need to break off fast.
Another time, we witnessed a sailboat whizzing by at anchor in Honeymoon Har., which is a pretty terrible place for secure anchoring. Nighttime adds to any confusion too.
All chain rodes can be a real pain when you really need to break off fast.
diver dave
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This is the kind of thing that demands some practice. From the word GO, a driver needs to be in position, engines ON, and a forward person needs to de-snub the chain, run it all out until its gone or turns into nylon, cut the rode, and then figure whats next. Was the all-chain rode tied off securely down below?? Fending off, boathooks if the problem child is a small boat. Spotlights on the correct target if its dark. watch out behind too; With this amount of mayhem, there will be loose lines in the water, asleep captains that need waking up, rocks at the stern, prepare to dive in with a knife in ur teeth. yeah... It just took once and its still pretty vivid in my memory.
Oh, and its usually in the middle of a thunderstorm at 3am; that's why it is so windy.
Oh, and its usually in the middle of a thunderstorm at 3am; that's why it is so windy.
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motion30
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My opinion is the reason the crews on these bigger boats or not more attentive is they are not the the owners and have no real financial responsibility ,of course their jobs could be at stake but that is of little consequence if they total the boat that you spent everything you have to own and repair. Possibly the captain is the only person on the mega yacht over 25 years old
Wifey B: That sounds like words coming from someone who hasn't met that many yacht crew members. They're like any other people, some diligent, some not. Those on charters are working in hopes of nice tips so they tend to do all they can to please the guests. Otherwise, they're working for the owners who are on board and they want to make them happy. The crews aren't anchored in the Exumas alone typically, but either owners or charter guests too.
Also, not as young as you imagine either typical crew of 7 would have 3 under 25 probably. Crew of 11, perhaps 4 under.
That no one is on watch is Captain issue.
I know quite a few in the industry and the ones I know are very diligent. They also talk of others, some good, some not. Like any other group of people.
As to the damage to them of a disaster, it's not just loss of current job, as news spreads rapidly and future jobs in jeopardy.
Royal Bahamas Defence Force and US Coast Guard likely work together if deemed worthy of investigation. No injuries or loss of life and boats not underway so I doubt any investigation other than by insurers.
GoneFarrell
Guru
Last summer, Jones Island, San Juans...
Two boats rafted to a 36' sailboat on one 19# Danforth, iffy bottom there.
Wind came in from the north at night, they drug onto the rocks at 4 AM, tide went out. Tide kept going out, I took the pic that morning.
Was a group of friends, relatively new to boating, only a few months experience on the Sound. They were not happy, esp the gals, they were on the beach that morning, really distraught. No cell service, they couldn't commiserate electronically, had to do it person to person.
Just not as many zeros involved in the damage as the Bahamas issue, nobody hurt except in the wallet.
Two boats rafted to a 36' sailboat on one 19# Danforth, iffy bottom there.
Wind came in from the north at night, they drug onto the rocks at 4 AM, tide went out. Tide kept going out, I took the pic that morning.
Was a group of friends, relatively new to boating, only a few months experience on the Sound. They were not happy, esp the gals, they were on the beach that morning, really distraught. No cell service, they couldn't commiserate electronically, had to do it person to person.
Just not as many zeros involved in the damage as the Bahamas issue, nobody hurt except in the wallet.
For some people who are attached by an umbilical cord to their phones, being unable to make calls could be worse than the damage to the boats.
hollywood8118
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I wrote about the same type of indecent that happened to us in the Gulf Islands a few years ago, we got drug down upon in about 20kts of wind by a twin screw 52' Nordic tug late on a afternoon while the skipper was taking a nap. They were about 300yds upwind of us before I went into the ER to do a fluids check.
I felt a good "bump" about the time a guest we had onboard opened the ER door to let me know a boat was getting close.. Luckily their dinghy had been tied across their transom and it took the brunt of the impact and the damage. Our big bruce and big all chain rode ended up holding BOTH boats but it was obvious our chain was scraping one of their props so a quick untanglement wasn't going to happen.
The skipper was obviously dazed when after calling them on our very loud hailer for what seemed like 5 minutes finally came to the stern and asked "why we had ran into them"!. It took me getting aboard the other yacht and the Admirals deft seamanship using our boat to push them forward and about 15 minutes to get us separated. The other party never even said thanks or asked about the damages to our brand new paint job.. they scooted at first light the next am. This isn't the first time I have seen someone blame someone else for their own screw up due to being embarrassed.
HOLLYWOOD
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psneeld
Guru
Same here Hollywood...
Last year in Wrightsville Beach, NC I got TBoned by a sailboat at 0230.
I had been anchored there for 5 days, they came in around dusk that evening.
They bumped me once, then again hard enough to gash my gel.
I asked them to move...the little old lady started to give a lecture on winds, tides, the dangers of moving and how they have never drug anchor.....till I interrupted her with the "first hit is free, second brings the USCG" reply lecture.
After a few minutes, you could see this Cape Dory 30 motorsailer was sailing a giant triangle with my boat as one point. They elected to stay anchored but ran the engine till daybreak and back down when close to me.
Gone at daybreak without a peep.
Last year in Wrightsville Beach, NC I got TBoned by a sailboat at 0230.
I had been anchored there for 5 days, they came in around dusk that evening.
They bumped me once, then again hard enough to gash my gel.
I asked them to move...the little old lady started to give a lecture on winds, tides, the dangers of moving and how they have never drug anchor.....till I interrupted her with the "first hit is free, second brings the USCG" reply lecture.
After a few minutes, you could see this Cape Dory 30 motorsailer was sailing a giant triangle with my boat as one point. They elected to stay anchored but ran the engine till daybreak and back down when close to me.
Gone at daybreak without a peep.
I recall seeing most of the fishing fleet in northern China (70-100ft) all equipped with those rings. But I can't see how it would be convenient to use - you would need a dinghy to set and remove. So no big advantage really. Plus who wants two holes going through the hull that close to the waterline?
OP
OP
menzies
Guru
Not at all. The stored line goes from the ring to a connection point on the bow. When you have set the anchor you connect the line to the chain at the bow and pay out until it takes the strain at the waterline or below. When recovering the anchor you bring it back to the bow, disconnect the snubber line and clip it to a bow point, then retrieve the rest of the anchor.
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Oh, that's good! I hope we never need to use it but planning to keep that one in mind.
I've never been in a real fight in my life but long ago one afternoon a drunk man I was telling to leave decided to take a swing. I easily blocked it, perhaps partly due to his state and partly due to the fact I was 8 or 10" taller than him. However, I did state to him, "That was your one and only free shot." I knew though that even had he swung again, I wouldn't have hit him back. I then told him I was going to call the police and it was his choice whether to be there when they arrived or not. He left quickly.
On a sailing charter in the BVI, anchored in Great Harbour, Peter Island we were awakened by commotion at around midnight. There was a 150'+ yacht anchored at the outer limit of the bay. The winds that had been blowing out of the bay for days had dropped in the afternoon and after dark turned 180°, so were now blowing in. the tenders from the big guy were systematically waking the boaters downwind of them to advise all to move, as "we are dragging and it will take us a while to get under way".
twistedtree
Guru
Why does it take a while to at least get and engine started and in gear to take some of the wind load?
