Total Control

So a few weeks ago we were at St. Simons Island in GA. We had a bit of fun getting in to Morninstar there, but not too bad.

The wind was blowing 15-20 out of the east, the current was about 2 knots through the marina, and there were weekend boats buzzing around everywhere.

This guy comes in, piloting from up top. He needed to wait for someone to leave the fuel dock. He presses one button at the upper helm, then leaves and goes down below to wait. That boat didn't move 6 inches in any direction for the next 15 minutes. With all the chaos, current and wind going on - just amazing.



Something in your brain just doesn't register when you see a boat like that just sitting rock-solid still in all that wind and current. The technology is so cool

Puts us "practicing just trying not to use the bow thruster" to shame.......

Amazing.....By the time I move up to a boat like that the tech will probably be obsolete. Lol

What kind of boat is that? Size?

That is pretty amazing. Does the boat have pod drives in addition to thrusters?

I love technology too, but I can set the anchor for a lot less coin.

South of Heaven said:

What kind of boat is that? Size?

Click to expand...

I think it’s an Azimut, about 60 ft.

Pod drives and sky hook or other systems are pretty neat, but lots of stuff that relies on a computer. They have gotten a lot more reliable over the past 5 years. Either way, it’s a lot of $ to keep them happy. I saw the writing on the wall and got out after a few years to go back to a Prop on a Shaft.

Boat handling will become a lost art.

FlyWright said:

I love technology too, but I can set the anchor for a lot less coin.

Click to expand...

Cool technology until it becomes possessed and causes an accident.

Ted

Electronics started in earnest the US production automotive world in the 1980s. (I suppose aviation and space had more) I was in the automotive industry back then. I always wondered when it would filter down to other modes of transportation and may be housing.

There is so much possibilities however the question is what are consumers willing to pay and how much would they pay.

The engine management game is very far advanced in the car and light truck industry. Such that accuracy and reliability is far far greater than it was back then. Not so much for heavy trucks, marine and off road. Granted the environment may be harsher however technology can over come the environment as well. Outer space is far more harsh. And while no technology is flawless it sure does get better.

Looking forward to technology moving forward

greetings,
Mr. hm. "Boat handling will become a lost art." Yes. Much like face to face conversation as not practiced by the younger generations...

hmason said:

Boat handling will become a lost art.

Click to expand...

There are exceptions, but the majority of people who buy a Pod/Joy stick boat are clueless. They can afford a big boat, so they write a check for immediate entry to a 40 to 50 ft. Plus craft with very little past boating experience. IE, the salesman tells them they will be a docking pro in 2 weeks. They end up being dangerous to themselves and others. Boat handling and seamanship skills were never there in the first place. Again, generalizing, but overall accurate.

What could possibly go wrong?
Hasn’t anybody had their gps lose its mind and go on a 500 mph joyride?

FlyWright said:

I love technology too, but I can set the anchor for a lot less coin.

Click to expand...

You're dropping anchor for a 15 minute wait at the fuel dock?

It's really easy on FW. Just release the safety tether and push one button at the helm. The self-deploying roller makes it simple. No need to cleat off for 15 mins.

Smart stuff used stupidly.

It's a very handy feature. I've had to hold stations for bridges and locks many times and it gets old fast. I'm sure many others have have the same experience.


But they also enable, and even encourage poor seamanship and boat handling skills. Why learn to control a boat when the button will do it for you. I feel the same way about many of the driving assist features in cars. They just make it easier to not pay attention while playing with your phone.


The trouble with joystick control on a boat is that they come with a lot of extra complexity, which means more stuff to break. Although no longer limited to pod drives, pods are often part of such a package, and I have heard pretty much nothing good about pods.

"You're dropping anchor for a 15 minute wait at the fuel dock?

Our boats are smaller , but sure we toss the 12H Danforth to wait for the ICW gaggle to assemble so the bridge tender will give everyone a pass.

12H is usually retrieved by hand , no big deal.

Just like in aviation

hmason said:

Boat handling will become a lost art.

Click to expand...

That’s already happened in aviation. With so much technology available, younger pilots are taught to use it all the time and older pilots are, well older and thinning out in the ranks. The art of stick and rudder is going away.
It will happen in boats too. We are docked at Morningstar Marina in SSI and if we need scary entertainment we just watch the comings and goings during tidal change. Never ending amusement.

Enabling electronics

I have always been impressed by the systems to automatically hold station (e.g. research vessels in open water, tugs, or yachts like the one in the OP.) Raymarine and others are rolling out automatic docking this year! All of this to enable an unskilled sector of the public. Before you know it, even the sailing community will be overtaken by drone-sailing tech, and then every yahoo who wants a yacht will be out there, all relying on their ship's computer to keep them safe. Without proper redundancies (i.e. being capable of manually maneuvering) this could evolve into mass chaos in the event of a GPS failure.


It reminds me of the time I almost collided with a planing power boat because its captain was down below making a sandwich. He engaged the autopilot and walked away from the helm. I wonder if the yacht in the OP had systems to keep watch while the captain was down below?



Boat handling WILL become a lost art. I pride myself on my ability to control my boat in a variety of conditions. I also enjoy the free entertainment one can find in most marinas and anchorages come happy hour. What will we do when all the boats park themselves?

Me Stupid

Nomad Willy said:

Smart stuff used stupidly.

Click to expand...

Don’t know what I was think’in.
If I had such a boat I’d certainly use it.
At one time guys probably didn’t trust an electric starter. They would of course have a hand crank handy.
Wish I could delete my stupid post.

The story of the a saturation diver who was stranded 91 meters underwater when the dynamic positioning systems (all 3) of the dive support ship went haywire is on a Netflix documentary called "last breath". Much different conditions but same concept. The crew could not run the boat back onto station manually, they were lucky enough that the system came back online when rebooted. Diver was left for 36 minutes with a 5 minute emergency tank when his umbilical line was fouled and snapped.

In recreational boating, it seemed that boat handling skills were already on the way to being a lost art, even before automated maneuvering became available. Skippers who grow over-dependent on electronics worry me more than those who aren't skilled but who are at least out there trying to get around on their own and learning how to do it in the process, like I did.

Please be patient - I've become one of the geezers that I used to listen to patiently.

We were patrolling the Tall Ships event in Bay City in 2016. We would hold station for 4 hours at a time. One of the Sky Hook systems would have been much appreciated but my Lehmans are way too old for that.

O C Diver said:

Cool technology until it becomes possessed and causes an accident.

Ted

Click to expand...

Yes. Last year in Port Sidney Marina some electronic berthing controls became possessed with severe damage to several berthed boats and docks. US boat, Canadian waters, it was a bit complex to get sorted out.

Guys - I’ve been boating for 50 years, and a pilot for 15. I learned on sailboats, many with no engine, and on steam gauges in airplanes. My question is, who among us has never had a problem docking in wind and current, or landing in a wicked crosswind? In the last 24 months I’ve upgraded the panel on my plane to full electronics, and upgraded to a 50’ Beneteau that, while it doesn’t have the Dynamic Positioning button, does have joysticks at each of the 3 control stations. Why wouldn’t we make use of newer technology if it’s available? Because it breaks? Everything breaks - if you’ve never had an engine quit on you then your spending too much time at the dock. Did anyone besides me type their reply on a cell phone, or did everyone send in a letter by snail mail? Threads like this make us look like a bunch of dinosaurs waiting to die.

Nothing wrong with setting the "sky hook" and grabbing a cold one.

I'm not knocking the technology and on the contrary, I admire it. I sure does beat having to be a slave to the helm while waiting for a bridge to open or a slip to open up or whatever! I just can't help thinking about the amount of extra wear & tear on the propulsion system, steering system, thrusters, batteries, etc caused by keeping the boat static with lots of wind & current. I guess if the owner can afford a 60' Azimut with a Sky Hook system, they aren't too much worried about the maintenance costs.

All my life I've heard how things are going to be destroyed by technology. Each generation blasts what comes along next but meanwhile they're happy using what the previous generation blasted. If I see someone do an incredible job of docking a boat, touching nothing, in strong winds and current, I'm impressed by them and if they had the knowledge and ability to use pods and a joystick and thrusters to do so, it doesn't diminish it in my mind.

I've heard the complaint of people not talking, too busy playing with their phones and with some there is excess. However, I've seen groups sitting and not talking as everyone was reading a book or magazine. I remember the time my parents spent reading the newspaper and they weren't talking during that time.

I'm going to learn all the new technology I can. I can manage without it, but not going to do so. People dismiss dynamic positioning like skyhook and other. Well, we've used it for a lot of bridges, locks, and marinas, but the one time I valued it most was the Macy's July 4 Fireworks. You are put in an area and told to keep your boat in position but you aren't allowed to anchor. I saw so many people spending hours back and forward and side to side when all we had to do was set it and it stayed and we moved less than any other boat in our area.

One generation criticizes thrusters and the next does dynamic positioning and joysticks. I remember my grandfather refused to use cruise control on his car. I didn't grasp some of the new auto advances but we have a Mercedes Sprinter with every safety feature they offer on it and, if you use it properly, you drive more safely. Yet, it's just the tip of the iceberg on what is to come.

It's like autopilots. If you use them to leave the helm and not pay attention then they aren't dangerous, you are. However, we use them to enable us to stand a better watch.

There is new technology being developed that I'm suspicious of, but when technology is proven, I'm going to use it. I'll even experiment with it. We pretended one day by tossing a ring and some weights attached into the water that we had a man overboard. It was to see how good out autopilot and plotter was on returning on the route. It took us on the route right back to the ring, about 2 miles back. Another possible tool.

GPS malfunctions occasionally and it's up to us to realize that, but the benefit we've gotten from it on land and water is immense. I'm so happy the days of "You go the the third light, turn right by the Shell station then go right past Bible Church and turn left, drive about three miles and there's the old Coca Cola Plant and it's on the right and there's a street on the left, take it and the house is the seventh house on the right" are long gone.

I also like technology and have some of the latest on our boat. My comments were based on my personal experience with a joystick boat. They are more costly to maintain and I was losing faith in the reliability of them due to some issues I was having so I went back to a simple prop and a shaft. Many owners do ok with them, but dig around on other forums and you will see some common patterns.

Fletcher500 said:

I also like technology and have some of the latest on our boat. My comments were based on my personal experience with a joystick boat. They are more costly to maintain and I was losing faith in the reliability of them due to some issues I was having so I went back to a simple prop and a shaft. Many owners do ok with them, but dig around on other forums and you will see some common patterns.

Click to expand...

We have joysticks with traditional drives, no pods. No issues with the joysticks. There are many very happy pod owners but pods haven't been our choice. One does need to separate joystick from pods although we're use to seeing joysticks coupled to pods. There are now yachts being built without steering wheels at all.

hmason said:

Boat handling will become a lost art.

Click to expand...

So sadly true.

Most of us who started boating in the 60's in an 8 foot rowboat, sailboat or outboard worked up through the sizes to our current vessel. It gave us time to learn how to handle a boat, navigate and learn maintenance one step at a time.

Today, we have boat owners (not boaters) who buy 30 foot plus first boats upon retirement or because they can afford it. Some take handling instruction, most don't. Most don't even take the USCG Auxilary or Power Squadron classes.

The proliferation of GPS, electronic charting, bow and stern thrusters, joy sticks control etc. allows a neophyte to go boating with less skill and knowledge. Before these devices became commonplace, these new boat owners would never have left their slip.

They drive the boat like an automobile.

They have no desire to become better boat drivers.

And most have absolutely no boating etiquette.

Sorry for the rant but I see how the pleasure boating lifestyle has changed in my lifetime and it is sad.