Too much anchor

Rex, you need to be in the advanced editor to upload photos. When in there - you will enter it automatically when you do an edit anyway - you go to the bottom and click on attach images, then in the file upload section below, click the cursor into the file name box, then click on 'browse', that will take you to your computer files then browse to the pic and select/open them one by one, repeating the above steps until all pics are identified, then click on 'upload files' at the bottom of the file upload boxes, then 'submit'.** They then should appear as pics which can be oped singly, or if the left-most one is clicked on, it will then play them as a slide show.* Good luck - I'd like to see those vessels.

eg below...

And thanks for coming to my rescue back there.* I was starting to feel a bit lonely and outnumbered over this anchor issue.* I'm looking forward to being joined by some US, and even Canadian (maybe) believers....

"I'm looking forward to being joined by some US, and even Canadian (maybe) believers...."

I believe I have a bridge in Brooklyn that has great income potential!

Hi Peter B, Sunchaser.
Below in the*first two pics are*of*rear view and front view*of a*gas and oil vessel deployed in W.A. that vessel ways in at 150 ton before loaded and in*work mode can weight up two 250 ton.
You will not find any of the old style anchors on these vessels as they just won't do the job, previous to installing the 150 K.G. Super Sarca's they had*real difficulty trying to hold these vessels in place whilst laying and continues pipe line welding over lardge distances. You just don't get a look in unless your anchor's are certified, tested proven.
The outer reef yacht weighs in at 66 ton and has two 88 K.G. Excels, one is in use the other as a back ahould they loose the primary,this is a charter boat, again see how long you will last in this industry if the anchors are below expectation.
You know there is no shortage of negatives* from disbelievers when presenting new technolodgy such as anchors into a market, all most cult like comments,*FF when it comes to your believable bridge take up my offer, you have all to gain nothing to loose, you will have*a return on your money if it dosent work out for you, a better bet than your bridge.
I would have no problem in giving you one, but any comment from the performance of*the anchor, any praise after use your words*would be simply dust.
Regards.
Rex.
Ceo of Anchor Right Australia.



-- Edited by Rex on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 05:36:57 AM

Rex wrote:Hi Peter B, Sunchaser.
Below in the*first two pics are*of*rear view and front view*of a*gas and oil vessel deployed in W.A. that vessel ways in at 150 ton before loaded and in*work mode can weight up two 250 ton.
You will not find any of the old style anchors on these vessels as they just won't do the job, previous to installing the 150 K.G. Super Sarca's they had*real difficulty trying to hold these vessels in place whilst laying and continues pipe line welding over lardge distances. You just don't get a look in unless your anchor's are certified, tested proven.
The outer reef yacht weighs in at 66 ton and has two 88 K.G. Excels, one is in use the other as a back ahould they loose the primary,this is a charter boat, again see how long you will last in this industry if the anchors are below expectation.
You know there is no shortage of negatives* from disbelievers when presenting new technolodgy such as anchors into a market, all most cult like comments,*FF when it comes to your believable bridge take up my offer, you have all to gain nothing to loose, you will have*a return on your money if it dosent work out for you, a better bet than your bridge.
I would have no problem in giving you one, but any comment from the performance of*the anchor, any praise after use your words*would be simply dust.
Regards.
Rex.
Ceo of Anchor Right Australia.
*



-- Edited by Rex on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 05:36:57 AM

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*I'm in the market for a new anchor and am interested in your offer to FF.

I own a 40 foot trawler and am a local assistance tower/salvage guy so I do influence many to what to buy for their boats.

I disagree that FF has nothing to lose as you suggest he can have his money back...but you require him to put it up front for something many other experienced boaters isn't necessary...

Well I'm open minded...and because I don't want anything to lose either...I propose you send ME an anchor for review for a years worth of cruising going head to head with my Delta and Bruce...and at the end of the year I will gladly write about my experience and send you the money for the anchor...(discounted at least 15% because it's now a used anchor).

So what do you think of my proposa?l...seems fair and I'm less set on any one design so I'm sure I will be impartial.* Plus with my influence over the local boating population I could be creating a marketing hot spot for you.


-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 05:56:04 AM

Hi Scott,

Thanks for your reply, look I must confess, I really only got involed in this fray as Sundancer put it simply because I had a customer supporting our product, I was emailed not by him but another customer asking me to take a look at the comment's, Peter is very passionate about our anchor and why wouldn't he be, it works better than anything he deployed before.

If Peter is pasionate enough to try and spread the word then whether it be Peter or even yourself I will support our customers in the best way I can, like I said I am not desperate to create a market in the U.S. but seeing that Seacor has purchased some of our anchors then I feel I am supporting them to.

And yes I am very pasionet about our product, FF I appologize if my offer was all one sided but your comments were I think a bit that way to.

Scott I have been in the buisness now for many years and have an impecable record, I do not know you from a bar of soap and the offer you have made to me is not dis similar to what we had to go through when we started, I have been screwed on a number of occcasions from my own countrymen, back then the money mattered more so than it does now.

We have proven our selves time over again and feel I don't have to go those lenghts again, I like your approached and respect it so lets look at another option, whatsay I get the distributor to give you a written garuantee for your money back if you are not completley satisfied, further, in Seacors next order I will specifically instruct them to sell it to you for 30 percent of, may be even at their cost, I will re imburs them for the differrece. So it will be a non proffit situation for Anchor Right.

The price of the anchor is not of concern to me but I would struggle if I gave you the anchor and you dissapeared. This is a one of deal for one customer only and will not be repeated, but if you Scott are looking for a better pick, put up your hand, if you decide to accept this negotiated offer we all win as I know what the results will be.

Regards

Rex

Ceo of Anchor Right Australia

Rex - Fair enough...my only issue right now on boat budget is tax time..I'll know better in a couple months.

Know that some of what I suggested was in good fun...however I am always open to better items in the boat industry that I think is decades slower than most...unfortunately for some of us boaters the budget is limited to that older tech.

Hi Scott,

Fully understand but hey thanks for you interest, yes I dont think we can get to serious about these things other wise it is no longer constructive.

And Scott, make no mistake I am not saying we have the perfect anchor I don't believe such a beast will ever exist, what I will say is we have as good as, if not better than the world has to offer.

Thanks once again for your interest.

Regards.
Rex.
Ceo of Anchor Right Australia.

I like the SARCA fluke and rollbar design. I don't like the slot. I have read way too many comments on various forums and finally had an opportunity to talk to a Manson owner who experienced the downside of a slotted shank. If a boat gets off to the side of the anchor with the rode shacked into the slot the shackle will often slide down the slot to the fluke end and unset the anchor. I guess the theory is that the boat will then pull the anchor around and it will re-set itself. But I've heard of enough instances where it didn't to make the slot worthless to my way of thinking.

And while the argument could be made that a boat getting off to the side of the anchor will un-set it anyway, it's a matter of pull. In the instances I've read or heard about, it took very little force to slide the rode shackle to the fluke end and at that point very little force was needed to back the anchor out. Where a well-set anchor with the rode attached to the "proper" end of the shank will be much more resistant to being unset by a sideways pull.

Now for boaters like fishermen who anchor while fishing and who move from spot to spot fairly frequently, the slot would be a real benefit if they happened to snag on a rock or other bottom debris.

But for the kind of boating we do, the slot would be of no value. I'd rather have a smaller shank of the same weight than an over-wide shank to accommodate a slot I'm never going to use. There are a number of Manson anchors on boats in our marina and every one of them has the rode shackled to the hole in the shank, not the slot. From the one fellow I've talked to who has a Manon, he learned to not use the slot the hard way.

So my take on the SARCA is it's an excellent design with a well-proven track record but it's not quite there yet by my way of thinking. Were I in the market for a new anchor I would consider a SARCA (I could get one over here thanks to friends in our flight department) but the presence of that wide, slotted shank would most likely cancel out its other advantages.

Hi Marin,
Thank you for your analyses, you know when I enter a forum I get this picture in my head, I cant help but feel behind some of the key boards driving the forum discussions are guys sitting there with sharp knives and dinner plates waiting for a nice piece of steak to carve up, the amount of bull sh-- that you have endured over last couple of years, and for the ones that bought an anchor that wasnt, its any no wonder your knives are twice as sharp this time.

Problem being guys I am not to fresh, covered in warts with a hide withered to blunt any knife.

Marin whilst I appreciate your input and positive remarks I would much rather you ask me a question rather than make statements.
You state you have read much about the downside of slotted shanks from comments in forums, I wont argue with you there, but you should research just who and where those comments came from, most of those comments were from a source that has now moved on as forum knives caught up with them, their anchor is now manufactured and marketed by another company.

The only way you can quantify any downside comment of a product is by using that product yourself, now you also stated you have had first-hand knowledge of the down side to slotted shanks as a guy with a Manson Supreme told you he found out the hard way, he shackled his chain to the slot, Marin you are talking about two very different products, opposition is concave whereas Sarca is convex, absolutely no comparison in how they work, am I qualified to talk about concave? You bet as our very first Sarca was concave.

However if you care to Google NATIONAL MARINE SAFTEY COMMITTEE AND AMSA just to understand the scrutiny of what we have to go through you may form a different opinion, if for any reason our slotted shank acted as you have stated they would throw the book at us and we certainly would not be accredited with S/H//Holding power certification.
A period of over four months field testing alone, testing for the very things that you have stated, and I might add they had three different officers at different times overseeing this testing over a variety of sea floor substrates.

The slotted shank was deemed faultless in how it performed throughout the three months, Proof testing has been going on since the very first Sarca was produced and is continuous with development.
Ironically the continuous slanging comments coming from the now defunked opposition company was casting doubt into potential customers minds over the Sarcas trip release, basically the same as what you are doing, totally unfounded and miss guided information.

So we responded with the following, a Stainless bolt with a washer was passed through the slotted shank, then another washer with a NY lock nut was fitted to the other side of the shank, the bolt and nut washer assembly was then parked just behind the (D) Shackle and locked up, no more trip release, if you want to re employ the trip release loosen the nut sliding the assembly to the rear and relocking. Make no mistake, the trip release doesnt mean you will always get your anchor back, it simply gives the best chance.

Marin to this day I know of none that has moved the trip release bolt to the lock out position. We released the Sarca 16 years ago long before so called new generation anchors, our development is and will be ongoing. If you still dont like the trip release then maybe you might consider the more expensive and incredible Excel.
Marin we may continue to disagree but I thank you for your statements also as it does make good discussion.

Field testing, proof testing, test certs can all be found on our web site, if you are truly interested in anchor technology then visit our site, you may find it interesting if nothing else.

Regards.
Rex.
CEO- Anchor Right Australia





-- Edited by Rex on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 04:09:07 AM

"FF when it comes to your believable bridge take up my offer, you have all to gain nothing to loose, you will have a return on your money if it dosent work out for you, a better bet than your bridge."

Anchor systems seldom fail until well tested , thunderstorm, poorer than expected bottom or fouling.

The cost of an anchor , even one priced as if it were a certified aircraft ,part is hardly the loss suffered when it fails.

If your anchor fails , will you purchase a new boat to replace mine?

Or is your risk limited to 50 lbs of steel , and my risk my boat?

FF*Thats not much to ask for, does the manufacturer of your current anchor give you those gaurantees. If I said you would never drag our anchor I would be lying, I hope that you wouldn't purchase an anchor with a gaurantee never to fail.

We can do no more than what we have done to ensure saftey, if you deploy an anchor, you make the choice on the type of anchor and take full responsibility for your actions, thats the way it is. Having said that we have some very proud runs on the board where we have actually saved lives.

Below is Quo Vaidous in the U.K, just a pick but you can get his full story-down load of our web site,*further the Tsunami that hit phuket, a 40 foot yacht in the direct path survived an saved a women from drowning swept out to sea, two other boats also survived hooked in on Sarca's so I will settle for our achievment rather than hypertheticles.

*Regards.

Rex.

CEO -Anchor Right Australia.*

Good onya Rex, you picked out how to get those pics to post proper....

Seriously Marin - FCS get over that slot thing....for example - taking your example, if the rode is anything other than virtually perfectly in line, and above the shank, the way the shackle sits in the slot, which is very square-edged, it won't slide - there is too much friction, it just locks anyway....pulling from the side as in your example, you would pull the whole anchor round before it would slide down the slot. (Best seen in the pic below viewed from above). But even that would not matter, because given enough tension from the side, all anchors pull out or rotate, however the Sarca re-sets so fast you are not even aware it has happened - if it happens, I don't know...because mine has never clearly unset itself.

Scott mate, if I was you, I'd jump at Rex's offer, it would be the best deal you ever made, re a piece of boating equipment. FF, you might have just missed out on the same, and think of the fun you coulda had trying to prove him wrong....

I should add, the anchor is half deployed in those pics I have posted, normally I retract it right back to the retaining bolt and it is more neatly horizontal.

I upgraded yesterday from a 22 lb "made in China" claw to a 33 lb Lewmar claw. Defender has them on clearance so I printed out the page and took it down to my local West Marine store and got my price match. $108.00 anchor for $60.00.

I've never had a problem with the original but I feel more comfortable with the larger one.

Rex wrote:

You state you have read much about the downside of slotted shanks from comments in forums, I wont argue with you there, but you should research just who and where those comments came from...

Click to expand...

The comments came from individuals in a wide variety of locations, mostly in the US, on a variety of forums.* I have also read about the downside of a slot in reviews of slotted anchors, plus the fellow I met locally.* As I recall the comments were all directed at the Manson since that was at the time the only slotted anchor available in the US.

Every manufacturer says their product is the best in the world and will promote and defend to the hilt whatever features and attributes their product has.* My own company does this only with jetliners instead of anchors.

I have long since learned to take manufacturers' claims with a grain of salt.* A really big grain of salt.* Prior to my life in aerospace I had another life in commercial advertising.* So I know firsthand how to spin a product deficiency into a positive attribute because I used to do it.

Which is why I give almost zero credibility to any claims made by a manufacturer.* They provide great spec information and details about how their product works.* But for a true picture of a product's worth I look to owner or operator reviews.

While there are certainly people like Peter who declare they have never had a problem with a slotted anchor I have seen too many comments from people who have described an unset problem with a slotted anchor to want any part of one.* Not the anchor part of the anchor, the slot part of the anchor.

Obviously, you don't have to use the slot and Manson has provided a means to bypass it.* But the tall shank a slotted anchor requires can present stowage problems on some boats or require the fabrication of a new, taller anchor bail on the pulpit.

When you add in the fact there are other anchor designs that, by user testimonials, are just as effective as a SARCA in terms of setting and holding but don't have the over-tall shank to accomodate a slot, there is no reason to buy an anchor with what I think is a less-than-desirable feature.

I also don't believe a convex fluke is as resistant to pull as a concave fluke.* If it was, we'd all be using the backsides of our shovels * But that's another topic altogether.

From testimonials I have read about the SARCA with regards to its setting and holding, you've got a very good anchor.* Offer a version without that potentially troublesome slot and a less-tall shank and you might have a great anchor.

But were we in the market for an anchor today, the SARCA would not be on our short list of candidates even though I could get one in here if I wanted to.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 12:36:16 PM

Marin wrote; as I recall the comments were all directed to Manson since that was at the time the only slotted anchor available in the US
Marin
Thanks for clarifying; its quite amazing how a discussion about anchors can so quickly be manipulated to present the manufacturer as I would put it, not a person of integrity, I dont mind you having an opinion re Sarca anchors but hey, when your opinion is based on your own practice it starts getting a bit personal, it is not in the best interest of any discussion, not healthy.

Marin wrote;

I have long since learned to take manufacturers' claims with a grain of salt.* A really big grain of salt.* Prior to my life in aerospace I had another life in commercial advertising.* So I know firsthand how to spin a product deficiency into a positive attribute because I used to do it.

Which is why I give almost zero credibility to any claims made by a manufacturer.* They provide great spec information and details about how their product works.* But for a true picture of a product's worth I look to owner or operator reviews.

Well mate you and I are a different breed, I left school when I was13 to support our large family,never in a lardge busness, never had to worry about performance for*corporate investors, couldn't have done*it anyway,never had the education, only had to worry about my own family and pocket.

In my world I give what I get, a comparison between you Marin*and me is a world apart but close to heart, it is non-other than the difference between convex and concave, convex when retrieved comes up clean, concave comes up full off--- er mud,*

See unhealthy, my marketing tactics are based on fact backed up by independent testing over more than 16 years from third party engineers, authorities true life situation feedback, saved lives and driven with passion, not to be a millionaire but to do something worthwhile.

Fully understand, our anchor design is not for everyone and I am sure not everyone is satisfied. this could be for a number of reasons, operators fault to not locating on their specially designed bow roller, who knows,who cares, if we are making a difference is what counts.

Some of you could learn something from your forum contributors such as Peter B by asking questions rather that saying BAHHHHHHH.

Marin you obviously have a plan B? As I dont believe I have made mention of comparative holding power between convex and concave, well be warned I am not going to join in on another anchor war.

Marin Quoted;*we would all be using*back sides of our shovels.

Well Marin, CQR, Delta and many many more are back sides of a shovel as they are convex.***

if there are others that have problems deciding over slotted shanks then take*look at our Excel anchor,that to will be available in the future, the not to*distant I hope,remember if it's not broke- then why fix it, if you are happy with your anchor why change it.

I have really enjoyed these discussions and reinforced my beliefs if you continue to be honest, the knockers only help to sharpen your skills when dealing with a variety of different personalities.

I have also learned that it is now getting time for me to butt out, I hope I to have made some sought of contribution to your forum.

Marin thanks once again for you input, dont take my comments to heart as someone said its all a bit of fun, I am sure some of your members really appreciate your grillings. *

I also thank you guys over there for your emails, support and questions, and yes if Seacor are successful, (we will have to wait and see) then maybe Marin will have a Sarca sitting proud on a boat next his in the Marina continually reminding him of me.

I have up loaded anther pic for those interested , no trip stop bolt, its a charter boat,*they dissapear for weeks at a time with up 50 people on board anchorring in places many of us*will never see, ride out huge seas and tides on* 150 k.g. Super Sarca.*

Full Regards.

Rex

CEO Anchor Right Australia.

*

*
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-- Edited by Rex on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 08:55:57 PM


-- Edited by Rex on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 08:58:25 PM

Deja vu - Craig Smith vs Alain Poiraud
Steve W

Rex wrote:You state you have read much about the downside of slotted shanks from comments in forums, I wont argue with you there, but you should research just who and where those comments came from...

Click to expand...

Marin wrote:

The comments came from individuals in a wide variety of locations, mostly in the US, on a variety of forums.* I have also read about the downside of a slot in reviews of slotted anchors, plus the fellow I met locally.* As I recall the comments were all directed at the Manson since that was at the time the only slotted anchor available in the US.

__________________________________

Click to expand...

Marin, I know you well enough now to know no-one is going to convince you of anything by just talking louder, but you are someone who is a rational thinker, and who is pursuaded by evidence.* I will just make one last comment on the matter, just to appeal to the evidence-based side of you, and for the benefit of anyone else interested in the issue as well as yourself.

Click to expand...

I note Rex, as a manufacturer, was careful to not mention another manufacturer by name, and fair enough, I think we all respect that, but I am not so constrained, and you yourself named them above, so I don't have to anyway.* What I want to challenge is the supposed evidence from the personal experience of owners claiming their anchor tripped and dragged because of the slot.* The simple fact is, all they can say is their anchor dragged.* They have assumed it was unset because of the slot, but there is actually no way of telling if the slot ever came into action, because even if it has, as soon as a significant linear pull is exerted, such as would be the case in a dragging situation, it would slide back to the end of the shank, and certainly they do that as they are retrieved.* Essentially, they are unbalanced if tripped, the fluke end being so much heavier than the shank, so as soon as clear of the bottom, the weight of the fluke end + mud - a lot in the case of a concave shape - will flip it down so the shackle would slide back up to the end anyway.* I know this from deliberately using the trip quite often to free my anchor form the bottom, the sucker grabs in so damn hard, and me being too lazy to muck around running back and forth with a short snubber just to take the weight off the pulpit and winch.* I'd rather trip it, then retrieve it with much less resistance on the winch, and yet I've never been able to catch it in the act of flipping back, having slid down to the fluke end during the trip - it is always back at the shank end by the time it is visible in the water.

Click to expand...

So, my point is if you have based your assessment of the slot, purely on the reported experiences and assumptions these people have made as to why their anchor tripped, then you have probably been mislead, as in fact the slot involvement in their failure is something they cannot really know, so all you can deduce is that type of anchor you have based this anti-slot thing on is not as good as claimed, and dragged somehow - period.

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"Thats not much to ask for, does the manufacturer of your current anchor give you those gaurantees."

Danforth has been producing basically the SAME PRODUCT since WWII. CQR probably as long.

So by using a proven product , over sized for the mfg. application I get my guarantee.

All the references you seem to show for your pricy jewelery seem to be MANNED 100% of the time.

WE sleep , mostly at night and have no deck watch.

A tiny watch fob underwater will not help my sleep.

And muy bride mutanies at the concept of her taking a 12 hour deck watch ,,,every night!


-- Edited by FF on Friday 24th of February 2012 06:09:11 AM

My bride is always reluctant to overnight on the hook. "I can't sleep" she says. So where's the problem??:blankstare:

Hi Peter B

Thanks for your valuable analysis; its possible that you are more on the money than you think. (Assuming the trip release is at fault,) maybe its the design of the anchor and its dragging.

Peter like I said earlier in this debate, one should not make assumptions or statements unless one can quantify, your observation and whilst not proven conclusion on concave has made more sense than any comment I have seen over the last 5 pages.

FF Wrote; All the references you seem to show for your pricy jewellery seem to be MANNED 100% of the time.

I dont think a comment like that is worthy of an answer, I am sure if I said it was black you would say it was white, but you are wrong again, do some research. Im a bit disappointed that I made the assumption that you would have been a good candidate to trial my design. Im just not quite sure what your agenda is.
Do you really care; maybe you are just trying to redeem to the forum your level of intelligence, nothing wrong with that.

Regards.
Rex.
CEO Anchor Right Australia.

Rex wrote:
Hi Peter B

Thanks for your valuable analysis; its possible that you are more on the money than you think. (Assuming the trip release is at fault,) maybe its the design of the anchor and its dragging.

Peter like I said earlier in this debate, one should not make assumptions or statements unless one can quantify, your observation and whilst not proven conclusion on concave has made more sense than any comment I have seen over the last 5 pages.

FF Wrote; All the references you seem to show for your pricy jewellery seem to be MANNED 100% of the time.

I dont think a comment like that is worthy of an answer, I am sure if I said it was black you would say it was white, but you are wrong again, do some research. Im a bit disappointed that I made the assumption that you would have been a good candidate to trial my design. Im just not quite sure what your agenda is.
Do you really care; maybe you are just trying to redeem to the forum your level of intelligence, nothing wrong with that.

Regards.
Rex.
CEO Anchor Right Australia.

Click to expand...

To be fair to FF..I think his agenda is like a lot of us old timers.* Some people still write letters and hate email...go figure

The US Coast Guard still uses huge chunks of concrete to anchor buoys...that design has been around at least 10,000 years...they don't seem to care and figure building big boats to handle those blocks must be worth it over using a different anchor design.

Many of us have been using old anchor types and are comfortable with them. We have seen anchor tests come and go with no clear cut winner as ALL the tests are limited in some way...most tests are.

So people are resistant to change from something that has worked for them and no one has clearly proven that another design will work in the same AND different situations than the anchor that's already on the bow.

The problem with the marine industry is there far more "claims" to be better than what most of us are willing to pay for or experiment with as our boating dollars are limited.* I've always said the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is a boat show (OK so our capitol building may be catching up fast).....so many of us take the wait and see approach.


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 24th of February 2012 04:23:36 PM

Hi Scott,

Thanks for you sobering comment, fact is I too are now classed as an old timer caught up in designing anchors, used most of the old designs for many years, so Iam caught up with new anchor technolodgy simply because I have been privy to designing, developing and testing, unlike you I know what we say we can deliver.

New anchor designs has come ahead in leaps and bounds, yes you are right with new anchor designs comes higher prices, I appreciate your comments as we have been around for 17 years in Australia and we experinced the wait and see approach from our fellow boaters.

Make know mistake Aussies are one of the biggest knockers, it took a long time to get recognition.

Don't take to heart some of my responses, remarks, forums is not my seen and I fail to have much tact, I just say it as I see it.

Regards Rex.

Ceo Anchor right Australai.

Don't get me wrong either..I think the work you and others have done on anchors is admirable...I truly believe they are better in many respects...how much better???? I'm not sure and there's the rub.

Of course I tried the typical cheapo way out and tried to wrangle a deal...

Bottom line is...if there was clear overwhelming evidence everyone would probably switch...or if anchors were only 50-100 dollars..many of us would try...but at well over $600 a pop...most of us are thinking second EPIRB and rely on the old trusty anchor that served me well for 50 years and pops another some before that..


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 24th of February 2012 10:03:02 AM

"I can't sleep" she says. So where's the problem??

Your bride isn't on our boat !

*

The big advance in anchoring in the past 100 years has been the "lightweight" anchor.

*

Yachts "back then" would consider a 200lb anchor on a 40 ft boat mighty small, just for overnight.

*

Just look at an old Yachting , and see what was "normal" before Danforth and WWII.

*

Today folks think nothing of using a 35 or 40 lb anchor to do the same job , helped ofcourse by more stretchible anchor line.

*

That this anchor is better than that anchor is a bowl of crap, if you want to hold BETTER simply use a BIGGER anchor.

*

Some people* love tech , sitting in the head and monitoring the rudder bearing temp is cruising for some folks.

*

But saving 5lbs on an already light weight system ? Where is the up side?

*

Strolling the dock and screaming "we stayed annchored outside the breakwater last night with an anchor half the size of yours?"

*

WOW!

*

No thanks!

*


-- Edited by FF on Friday 24th of February 2012 02:35:36 PM

Peter B wrote:


Seriously Marin - FCS get over that slot thing....

Click to expand...

I will see if I can hunt up the fellow who told me he almost lost his boat on a lee shore due to the shackle sliding to the fluke end of his Manson and backing out his anchor that he needs to get over it.* He says he knows the shackle slid down because of the marks on the shank.* I'll tell him he's mistaken, the shackle never slid, the anchor was never backed out, that it never dragged without reseting along the bottom, and his near encounter with the lee shore is all in his head.

I'll let you know what his reply is although I may have to use a lot of asterisks in his comments

Rex wrote:1. * it is non-other than the difference between convex and concave, convex when retrieved comes up clean, concave comes up full off--- er mud,*2. CQR, Delta and many many more are back sides of a shovel as they are convex.**

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*1.* I'm a lot more interested in how well my anchor holds than in how clean it is when I retrieve it.* What an anchor that comes up clean tells me is that its design easily sheds material, which is NOT what I want it to be doing when it's dug into the bottom.* This is the fudamantal problem with the CQR design and is, in my opnion, a deficiency in the SARCA's design.

2. The CQR flukes are not convex, they are concave.* Concave means the blade is curved AWAY from the material it is pushing against.* If you look carefully at a CQR--- acually, it's pretty obvious even if you don't look carefully--- you'll see that the flukes are just like the blade of a plow--- they are curved away from the material they are pushing.* I've included a picture to help you grasp the concept.

Finally, I stand by my statement that manufacturer's reps will say anything to spin their product into being the best, or at least worthy of being purchased.* I'm not trying to imply the SARCA is a bad anchor here, only that if it was made out of cheesecloth you would still be touting its wonders


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 24th of February 2012 03:01:04 PM

psneeld wrote:I've always said the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is a boat show

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*I think you're* wrong there, Scott.* I think the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is at the alternating Paris and Farnborough airshows.* If you want to learn from the pros how to spin a negative into a positive, that's the place to go.

Our competitor is brilliant at this--- for example only they coulde come up with the notion that putting fewer high-yield business class seats in a plane (because theirs can't accomodate as many as ours) is a good thing for an airline.* But we're learning fast, particularly on the defense side of the business.

But boat shows are definitely a very close second.

Marin wrote:psneeld wrote:I've always said the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is a boat show

Click to expand...

*I think you're* wrong there, Scott.* I think the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is at the alternating Paris and Farnborough airshows.* If you want to learn from the pros how to spin a negative into a positive, that's the place to go.

Our competitor is brilliant at this--- for example only they coulde come up with the notion that putting fewer high-yield business class seats in a plane (because theirs can't accomodate as many as ours) is a good thing for an airline.* But we're learning fast, particularly on the defense side of the business.

But boat shows are definitely a very close second.

*I would have thought that Congress would win this one hands down.

JD wrote:Marin wrote:psneeld wrote:I've always said the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is a boat show

Click to expand...

*I think you're* wrong there, Scott.* I think the greatest concentration of lies at any given time on the planet is at the alternating Paris and Farnborough airshows.* If you want to learn from the pros how to spin a negative into a positive, that's the place to go.

Our competitor is brilliant at this--- for example only they coulde come up with the notion that putting fewer high-yield business class seats in a plane (because theirs can't accomodate as many as ours) is a good thing for an airline.* But we're learning fast, particularly on the defense side of the business.

But boat shows are definitely a very close second.

*I would have thought that Congress would win this one hands down.

*Read my post...I did suggest the capitol building as competition!

*

FF Wrote; Strolling the dock and screaming "we stayed anchored outside the breakwater last night with an anchor half the size of yours?"

FF hang onto that anchor like it hangs onto the sea floor; youve got one hell of an anchor. Wow

Peter B Wrote
Seriously Marin - FCS get over that slot thing....

Marin Wrote;
I will see if I can hunt up the fellow who told me he almost lost his boat on a lee shore due to the shackle sliding to the fluke end of his Manson and backing out his anchor that he needs to get over it. He says he knows the shackle slid down because of the marks on the shank. I'll tell him he's mistaken, the shackle never slid, the anchor was never backed out, that it never dragged without reseting along the bottom, and his near encounter with the lee shore is all in his head.
I'll let you know what his reply is although I may have to use a lot of asterisks in his comments
__________________
C. Marin Faure
"La Pérouse"
1973 Grand Banks 36-403 (grp)
Bellingham, WA

Marin I dont normally defend the opposition, but hey he says he knows the shackle slid down because of the marks on the shank? Every time you deploy the anchor the shackle slides to the rear of the shank.

If I was the opposition company with a problem like I would be slapping a big red sticker on the shank to*explain the down side if you dont shackle to the hole, further, that company, if what you say happened, could with no problem be sued as they have inbuilt a device that is proving dangerous.

The most problem I have with this rubbish about the unsettling of the anchor Re slot is this, how on earth did they get S/H/H/Power certification, and Lloyds at that, Like I said we had to go through three months of trials with various testing officers and Survey officers present to prove what you are saying would not happen, otherwise fixed shackle to hole or slot we would have never passed certification.

Like i said in my post, I think Peter B is on the money, more observation taken in the future to prove just what is happening, with as you have stated dragging concave slotted anchors.*

Marin Wrote;
This is the fudamantal problem with the CQR design and is, in my opnion, a deficiency in the SARCA's design.

Marin give yourself a break ,they tell us old folk we cant learn new stuff but I have made it very simple if you care to browse through our video page, not to convince you of performance, but concept and how it works, (cant doctor that one) www.anchorright .com.au

Marin Wrote; The CQR flukes are not convex, they are concave. Concave means the blade is curved AWAY from the material it is pushing against. If you look carefully at a CQR--- acually, it's pretty obvious even if you don't look carefully--- you'll see that the flukes are just like the blade of a plow--- they are curved away from the material they are pushing. I've included a picture to help you grasp the concept.

Gee Marin, are you really sure about that, Im not sure now weather your words are simply spin or you just believe what you say, well if you are right the Marine authority, anchor testing authority, and A.M.S.A. have all got it wrong.

My test certs are dust if*you are right*when it*comes to concept? and If you are right, I*still don't*know how I am going to grasp the concept.
Marin I must confess I edited this out earlier, to be*fair the simply terminology is convex for plowing concave for scooping.
Again I will make the point --difference why you should not confuse yourself with hoop new generation anchors, S/sarca is neither a plow nor a scoop, Excel is the same concept, you will never get your head around it unless you view the videos on our site.
*We are the only anchors on the market using this concept, thats why we are different. We get deep penetration without ploghing producing exceptioal holding power, then on retrieval holes slots break the suction and lows easy dispersion of mud, there is no spin in that.
Regards.
Rex.
CEO Anchor Right Australia.





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