Trawler vs. Sea Ray Sundancer

Moonstruck wrote:psneeld wrote:

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My favorite is the Alligator River Bridge along the ICW.* They have a high winds restriction and if you don't get through..boy it REALLY interupts your ICW plans.* The guys when you call them on the phone act like you are family they are so nice and cooperative.* Can't ask for more than that!!!

*I was coming across Albemarle Sound with about a 5-6' following sea on my butt. *Making *25 knots, and it was too nasty to slow down. *I called the Alligator River bridge tender telling him my situation. *I said that I will be coming through with antannae and outriggers up. *He said," no problem Cap. Keep 'er coming". *The swing bridge was not open, so I called him again. *He said, "keep 'er coming". *I blasted through between the fenders at 25 knots riding a wave. *The bridge was swing open as I went through. *Those are*guys great.**

*Maybe because they see so many of us and so many of us are reasonable and polite on the radio....either way...they do seem to be very cooperative!

*

Moonstruck wrote:psneeld wrote:

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My favorite is the Alligator River Bridge along the ICW.* They have a high winds restriction and if you don't get through..boy it REALLY interupts your ICW plans.* The guys when you call them on the phone act like you are family they are so nice and cooperative.* Can't ask for more than that!!!

*I was coming across Albemarle Sound with about a 5-6' following sea on my butt. *Making *25 knots, and it was too nasty to slow down. *I called the Alligator River bridge tender telling him my situation. *I said that I will be coming through with antannae and outriggers up. *He said," no problem Cap. Keep 'er coming". *The swing bridge was not open, so I called him again. *He said, "keep 'er coming". *I blasted through between the fenders at 25 knots riding a wave. *The bridge was swing open as I went through. *Those guys were great.**

Holy cow*that sounds like major pucker factor right there Don!!!*

this is so funny as we came close to buying a sea ray last month as a runabout for the delta but decided to spend the money getting our inverter installed.* They serve their purpose!* There is a very active sea ray owners group up on the delta with monthly cruises.*

Don't have much experiences with bridges yet!

rwidman wrote:

Who was with the current and who was against it?

I've only been in that situation once but it was one boat on the other side.* I was traveling with the current and the other boater let me pass first.

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*

*Ron, it was high slack tide. *You can plainly see not a ripple on the surface, and how high the water is on the pilings. *They were on a SeaRay club cruise, and seemed to be afraid to let one boat run off and leave them. *When in a current situation, as a courtesy I will wait for the down current boat. *In fact, that was the situation on that particular trip at a bridge on the Adams Creek Canal. *I have known very responsible, knowledgable SeaRay drivers. *Unfortunately, it seems that 75% of them give the others a bad name.

We had a thread on passing sometime back. *I may try to find that discussion, and bring it back.

Bridge tenders have poor jobs at a poor wage and they sit there all the time watching the rich boaters go by. Some of them, and overall it is a very limited anount of them, get to make us wait or have to follow their rules. But just like some tenders give you bad treatment I am sure that many more boaters give them poor treatment.

Sea Rays are great, they get new boaters to come to the water. Many trawler owners started with Sea Rays or Bayliners, it is rare that they start with a trawler as a first boat. So let's be nicer to those beginner boaters, yes watch them more carefully to be safe, but we were all beginners once.

Moonstruck wrote:johnma wrote:
I always wondered why they run with the bow up like that. I've owned express cruisers over the years and could always bring the bow down with the tabs so I could see what was in front of me.
John
390 Mainship

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*SeaRays aren't inherently bad. *I think one of the main problems is because they are flashy and attract many first time boat owners. *They don't seam to observe the rules.

If you will notice their front decks all slope forward. *That's because they are designed to run in a bow up attitude. *When on a SeaRay express what bothers me most is the windshield height. *If you stand to drive you have to stretch to see over the top of the windhield. *If you are sitting, the windshield top cuts across your field of view. *So I wind up crouching to get a clear view.

Here is a picture on the NC ICW. *The fact that I arrived at the bridge 15 minutes before a cruise of several SeaRays got to the other side, cut no ice with them .. They all pushed through before letting me through. *Of course they were struggling to get on plane as the went by me. *This is what gives SeaRays a bad name.





-- Edited by Moonstruck on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 09:32:40 PM

*That is the old Sunset Beach Bridge.* It was notorious for the rude behavior when it opened.* Since it only opened once every hour there would always be 15-20 boats on either side, and invariably some of them felt like they could just go right down the middle and everyone else can just go screw.

BaltimoreLurker wrote:The rudest bridge tender on earth works the drawbridge on our creek.* He almost dropped the bridge on us once as we were approaching.* "All astern" or we would have gotten hammered.

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*I can see you have never been through the bridge at Surf City.* The lady (that may be a stretch) there is something else.* One day we were coming up the ICW*and there were three others right behind me as we approached.* I was in the lead and called for the opening which is on the hour only.* I said that*I and the three boats directly behind me would like an opening.* She in no uncertain terms told me that if that wanted through they would have to call on their own.* End of story.

This was the same person that just three days before would not open at 2:03 PM because I was three minutes late.* There was no 2:00 opening.* Did I mention it was on the hour only.


-- Edited by JD on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 12:18:50 PM

Pineapple Girl wrote:
Holy cow*that sounds like major pucker factor right there Don!!!*

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*You are absolutely right, Jennifer. *The opening between the fenders is narrow leaving no room for error. *If you have ever seen the waves that can build in the Albemarle Sound and Alligator River, you will know that they are extremely steep. *The Alligator River is that section is wide and runs North to South. *The fetch of the wind is miles and miles. *Shallow tidal waters with allot of fetch can build up short steep waves very quickly. *The guys that operate those bridges are watermen them selves, and know what the problems are.

yachtbrokerguy wrote:
Sea Rays are great, they get new boaters to come to the water. Many trawler owners started with Sea Rays or Bayliners, it is rare that they start with a trawler as a first boat. So let's be nicer to those beginner boaters, yes watch them more carefully to be safe, but we were all beginners once.

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*I haven't heard anybody not being nice, including myself.* Just trying to show why a trawler is better than a Sundancer from my point of view.* Heck, I'll bet they look at eachother and shrug their shoulders as they fly by me saying "look at that kook in the ancient trawler...* how could that be as much fun as this!"

Pineapple Girl wrote:
this is so funny as we came close to buying a sea ray last month as a runabout for the delta but decided to spend the money getting our inverter installed.* They serve their purpose!* There is a very active sea ray owners group up on the delta with monthly cruises.*

Don't have much experiences with bridges yet!

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*Fortunately, the Coot came equipped with an inverter.* It's definitely handy.

Jennifer, get yourself up the Napa River so the Mare Island Causeway Bridge*can open for you.

Phil Fill wrote:I dont see how you can compare a trawler VS a SeaRay as they are to very different appearance, function and therefore buyers.* Its like comparing a mini van to a sports car.* Besides owing a ugly slow trawler, we have always owned faster run about because of the faster speed and increase range/ *
**

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Took the words right out of my mouth.*

Since this has evolved to be more about bridges than Sea Rays, a common courtesy at a bridge is for the slow boats to let the faster boats creep up to the front and go through first. Then the fast boats can pick up speed on the other side without trying to pass the slower ones.
On my many trips between the Florida and the Northeast I would call other boats on the radio while waiting for a bridge to ask their cruising speed, and either move in front or behind them.

markpierce wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
this is so funny as we came close to buying a sea ray last month as a runabout for the delta but decided to spend the money getting our inverter installed.* They serve their purpose!* There is a very active sea ray owners group up on the delta with monthly cruises.*

Don't have much experiences with bridges yet!

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*Fortunately, the Coot came equipped with an inverter.* It's definitely handy.

Jennifer, get yourself up the Napa River so the Mare Island Causeway Bridge*can open for you.

Mark,*our only bridge experience thus far was the*hwy 12 bridge*over the*Mokelumne.* We*were all psyched to request an opening but as we got there it was already opening for several other boats so we just*cruised on*through with the masses.* It was plenty wide enough for boats to come from both directions at once and everyone went at a respectful speed, no issues.* **

Mark I am glad to give you an opportunity to post another picture.*** (I hope you realize I'm teasing you.) Our boat is so old I'm not sure they had inverters back when it was built.* the guy who is installing*the inverter *said his co did all the original electronics installations on the boat*and he recognized most of it as original.* Hey, if it ain't broke!!*

Pineapple Girl wrote:*We*were all psyched to request an opening but as we got there it was already opening for several other boats so we just*cruised on*through with the masses.*

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*What's great was that I got to use my air horns, and not rely on the "silly" radio,*to request the MIC (pun intended) bridge to open.

(I like the way the RR tracks cross from one side of the road to the centerline on the bridge, and then cross to the other side of the road.)


http://www.ci.vallejo.ca.us/GovSite/default.asp?serviceID1=215&Frame=L1


-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 04:32:44 PM

yachtbrokerguy wrote:
Since this has evolved to be more about bridges than Sea Rays, a common courtesy at a bridge is for the slow boats to let the faster boats creep up to the front and go through first. Then the fast boats can pick up speed on the other side without trying to pass the slower ones.
On my many trips between the Florida and the Northeast I would call other boats on the radio while waiting for a bridge to ask their cruising speed, and either move in front or behind them.

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*Tucker, you make a very good point. *However, sometimes the message is not recieved in the spirit intended. *When about to leave a slow area, I radioed an express cruiser I had been following. *I asked if I might so a slow pass as we leave the area. *He came back with, "just how fast do you cruise, captain". *I replied, 'we have been making 28 knots". *There was a long silence. *Then he came back with, "proceed, captain".

I had the reverse happen when repair work was being done on the Hutcheson Island Bridge above Stuart. *They were moving the crane and allowing boats to pass about every 20 minutes. *I got a radio call from a big express cruiser from New Jersey. *A lady's voice said, "Moonstruck, can we go through ahead of you? *We cruise very fast". *I said, "sure, go right ahead". *You can imagine their suprise when I radioed, "Moonstruck coming around" and passed them just after the Cross Roads at the St. Lucie Inlet. *They were doing about 24 knots.*


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 05:55:21 PM

RE: Bridges
I'm going to have to pull out my copy of Chapmans. (it's up on blocks with the rest of the boat) I could swear it states in there that boats with the current have the right of way when going through a draw bridge.

RE: Sea Rays
in the early to mid 80's they made some pretty nice boats both express and flybridge models. they ran flat without the bow way up in the air, but those new ones just aren't my cup of tea. A lot of people seem to like them in NJ and on the Chesapeake. I also notice that they always seem to run in packs!

John
390 Mainship

johnma wrote:
RE: Bridges
I'm going to have to pull out my copy of Chapmans. (it's up on blocks with the rest of the boat) I could swear it states in there that boats with the current have the right of way when going through a draw bridge.

RE: Sea Rays
in the early to mid 80's they made some pretty nice boats both express and flybridge models. they ran flat without the bow way up in the air, but those new ones just aren't my cup of tea. A lot of people seem to like them in NJ and on the Chesapeake. I also notice that they always seem to run in packs!

John
390 Mainship

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*Pull away...why go to chapmans when you can just go to the Navrules online...going with the current is called downbound and only applies in Western Rivers (tribs of the Mississippi)...every place else it's only courtesy unless local law.


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 05:55:14 PM

JD wrote:BaltimoreLurker wrote:The rudest bridge tender on earth works the drawbridge on our creek.* He almost dropped the bridge on us once as we were approaching.* "All astern" or we would have gotten hammered.

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*I can see you have never been through the bridge at Surf City.* The lady (that may be a stretch) there is something else.* One day we were coming up the ICW*and there were three others right behind me as we approached.* I was in the lead and called for the opening which is on the hour only.* I said that*I and the three boats directly behind me would like an opening.* She in no uncertain terms told me that if that wanted through they would have to call on their own.* End of story.

This was the same person that just three days before would not open at 2:03 PM because I was three minutes late.* There was no 2:00 opening.* Did I mention it was on the hour only.



-- Edited by JD on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 12:18:50 PM

*Seems like she did everything correct and the same way MANY bridge tenders I've experienced would act...can't fault her for following rules.


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 05:52:07 PM

psneeld wrote:
*Seems like she did everything correct and the same way MANY bridge tenders I've experienced would act...can't fault her for following rules.

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*What?* She's contributing to the downfall of Western Civilization!* What the heck negative difference does a three-minute*late opening of the bridge make? ...* Perhaps one would have been better off repeating the prolonged/short signal several times rather than speak with*the dumb head.

here on the east coast, bridges are slowly but surely losing gound to road traffic...billions are spent to get rid of draw bridges.

boaters are considered, rich, stupid and overindulged so they should wait all day for the bridge to open.

I'm not saying it's a good thing...just reality.


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 06:12:20 PM

psneeld wrote:
...billions are spent to get rid of draw bridges.

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*Great, if*there's more than 60-feet vertical clearance.

usually on the ICW its 65 feet...sometimes they oooops and it's close though..

Here in Jersey..not really the ICW but is often referred to as part of it...there are 2 35 foot fixed bridges in the 2 towns near me...but then the depth of the iCW in parts is only around 3 feet at low tide so the bridges are only part of the problem.


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 06:31:15 PM

psneeld wrote:
boaters are considered, rich, stupid and overindulged so they should wait all day for the bridge to open.

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*One need purchase a home costing half what one can afford, then one can afford a boat of equal value.* That's my strategy.

None of you guys have mentioned the cross traffic in your rants about bridge tenders.

The only bridge I have in my cruising grounds that I have ever had to call for an opening is the Second Narrows railway bridge. The cross traffic there is often out of sight, as the southern approach is in a tunnel, so you can't see it. The bridge tender usually leaves a lift up until there is a train, then leaves the bridge down until someone calls for a lift. With marinas and commercial docks close to the bridge both upstream and down, the tender can't assume every approaching mariner is going to pass through the bridge, so must wait for a call on VHF 12. Sometimes, when you call, he will tell you of a train in the tunnel, and how many minutes til it arrives. I would expect the tenders you guys are ranting about have similar pressures from the traffic the bridge was built to serve, and similar other destinations for the approaching marine traffic.

Since moving to the dark side, I haven't needed to call for a lift, but I still monitor 12 while in the harbour, so I hear about the "train in the tunnel" from time to time.

You know, I can still remember a day or so after I had closed on my Monk, the guy who owned the sea ray across from it was out on the dock. I knew most everyone on that dock except for him and I told him how we had just bought the trawler. He looked at me, looked at our Monk, looked at me again and said, "REALLY? Why would anyone possibly want to buy THAT boat?!" In his defense she was not looking her best at that moment.

I actually like the sea ray 48 sundancer- nice express cruiser with a good layout inside and out.

Hey, I resemble these remarks!

As a former sailboater I thought all stinkpots were bad. Then when I realized I was going to join them I figured why not go all the way. Yes, I cruise at 15 gph.

When we decided to buy another boat we took into consideration the access to world class cruising that we had at our doorstep and the limited amount of time I can be away from the jop. This led us to an express cruiser. Your not living until you dodge logs at 25 kts in a hull you're not sure was laid up correctly.

In a couple of years when I grow up I think I'll revert to my childhood and cruise at hull speed minus 15%. Who needs speed when you don't have to be at work at 8 Monday morning.

Oh, and some of my friends even drive Bayliners so there!

Oh, Yeah, and the reason we run around with our nose in the air is because we can.

BaltimoreLurker wrote:
The rudest bridge tender on earth works the drawbridge on our creek.* He almost dropped the bridge on us once as we were approaching.* "All astern" or we would have gotten hammered.

So we called him and asked WTF you doing? Even though we were waiting in line, in clear sight and were following another boat through, since we didn't call the guy and announce our intentions he believed he had the right to close the bridge.* Typical minor bureaucrat showing me his power. What a jerk!

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*As a sailboater waiting for any opening bridge I seldom called the bridge tender if there were other sailboats waiting for an opening.

However I read somewhere, I can't remember where, that it is a requirement that you call the bridge tender on the radio if you intend to pass under the bridge and would otherwise require the opening, even if other boats are waiting.

Presumably this is to alert the bridge tender of every boat intending to pass that would require an opening. If you sustain damage due to a closing bridge and did not alert the tender I believe you would be held liable for damage to your boat and the bridge.* For this reason I always notify the tender regardless of how many other boats are waiting. The trick is to get some tenders to acknowledge my call.

Additionally the location of some bridge tenders "office" makes it difficult to view the entire waterway up or downstream.

markpierce wrote:

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*What?* She's contributing to the downfall of Western Civilization!* What the heck negative difference does a three-minute*late opening of the bridge make? ...* Perhaps one would have been better off repeating the prolonged/short signal several times rather than speak with*the dumb head.

*Bridge tenders in FL have been repremanded for opening a bridge 3 minutres past it's posted openings. Though you may think some of your fellow boaters are rich snobs they don't come close to some of the folks that own homes whose access requiring a bridge crossing. Both in wealth and snobiness.

I've had great experiences with the Mare Island Bridge tender.* Travelling through with my friend 2 minutes in trail, he agreed to open for me and leave it open for Gene to pass, therefore not delaying me.* (Road traffic was light.)* They were also great at communicating about an opposite direction sail cat who needed a little extra time approaching for a shared opening.* One thing unique for this area is that they operate on CH13 while most other delta bridges monitor CH9.

Most of the delta bridges go to a summer schedule of opening that permits better road traffic flows.* The scheduled openings at :00, :20 and :40 past the hour.* There are also many that have limited winter hours that end at 5PM, so it's important to know their hours and restrictions.* I call the main bridge, Rio Vista Bridge (707-374-2134) with any off-hours opening requests or questions.* They have always been very helpful.*

Since we're now talking bridge procedures, I have a question for the masses:

When hailing the bridge for an opening, I normally wait to be within 4 minutes of the bridge and pass along to the tender my estimated time enroute, i.e. "...approaching from the south, arriving in 4 minutes, requesting an opening."* It seems calls further out result in the tender telling me he'll start the opening as soon as I get closer, and later calls require me to slow or stop for the opening.*

What timing and radio call protocol do you use and recommend?*

*