Taiwanese is rough seas and caribbean crossings?

Do the design and a single 120 lehman or equal put up a decent fight if the weather gets rough?

I plan to go from Florida to the British Virgin Island late November.

Now I am looking for a cheap trawler.. Most have the 120 Lehmans, and the boat looks underpowered in open sea.

Greetings,
Huh?

I agree.... There are so many other factors that need to be understood besides engine size to start answering your question? Without attempting to be rude in anyway, how much boating experience do you have? In what types of environments? Ocean - coastal, offshore, real blue water crusing, etc? What boating education have you completed? Have you taken a seamanship , piloting, cruise planning , Navigation, weather , course? Again, no judgement or disrespect - maybe the group can help you , if we understand how....

Regards

So.....I bought a trawler kind of fitting your description last year for a bit more than your budget, a fine boat but one that had been neglected. I just crossed the line of putting as much money into it as I paid for it. The point being that there are a lot of systems that will likely need attention and money on a boat in the bargin basement department. You wouldn't want to plunk down your 30k on Saturday and leave on Monday, as you would likely get 30 miles out and be in deep yogurt.

Old trawlers and old engines can be fine if looked after.

Hi!

My experience is limited to coastal in Norway, and I do not have heavy experience or a captains lisence.

I plan to get one in the US after summer, and learn about navigation.

Anyway, this thread is to find out if a boat between 25-30k could take the crossing in late november-december.*

This thread is all about the boat. Lets assume i read the weather correct and don`t land on any shoals or islands by mistake

I heard there is at least a one knot current working against me, so how much use is the 120 lehman? Compared to weight it could seem a little underpowered, but is it?

Surely I will get survey before i buy, but do any of you have experience with cruising east in the caribbean with that engine?

I think others will agree that the L120 is more than up to the task, even hitting into some nasty weather, for a vessel up to 36 feet at least. That is certainly my experience.

The condition of the vessel and hull design for that type of trip is critical. If i were doing it, I would want more power then a 120 Lehman can provide. Of you have a high winds and seas plus current , you may not have the power you need to be safe.

For example , I have twin 225 Turbo Charged Lehmans in a 42 foot trawler. I was in 8 foot beam seas and them 6 foot head seas on a trip last summer. With 450hp, I felt, I had the power to control the boat and adjust for the sea and weather conditions , make way and keep a course .

By the way, for a trip like the one you are thinking of, I assume the boat will have a really good autopilot unless you or someone else plans to steer all the time.

Does the trawler you are looking at have good flood control. Engine bilge pump option? Are the doors water tight? What kind of pressure can the windshield take? Etc

Greetings,
I suggest you read: http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/Other_Reviews/gentleman.htm

Take some navigation courses in Norway as well.** Reading charts and plotting courses is the same the world over.

Welcome Anders... Get tired of Cruiser's Forum already?

We plan on taking our single-screw 130HP Perkins over there in a few years. It's ALL about weather windows. Patience is key down there. We are no experts and have not done it (yet), but Bess and I seek out people who have gone and we're slowly learning. You have to be ready to wait for weeks for the weather to be favorable for crossings. It really is less the boat and more the Captain and crew. Sure, the motor needs to be READY mechanically, but the point is to learn what it takes to do it and not think you can buy a crossing.

Thank you Gonzo!

Norwegians have on several occasions rowed across the atlantic in small boats or crossed the pacific in rafts so I am not worried about that. What I am worried about was if the engine was not powerful enough to go against the current and would just be stuck on the same place or getting pushed backwards while trying to go forward if wind and current was being nasty.

I can do the waiting and waiting, that is fine by us

As long as you have the proper prop, a Lehman 120 or Perkins 130 (or just about any single-engine trawler can make it. They have TONS of torque, due in part because of their huge rotating mass, that can spin the prop pretty effectively. You may only make 5mph, but you'll never be making neutral headway or going backwards unless you are in a helluva blow.

Just last year I left the West coast of Florida ,down the Gulf of Mexico, across the Gulf stream to the West end of Cuba,then across the Yucatan Channel and down the coast to Belize. This was done in my 36' Marine Trader with a 120hp Ford Lehman. At times against heavy current ,I was only making 5 knots, but she just kept chugging along. BB

That is great news!

*

Exactly what i wanted to hear! Some old captains in Norway said they wore "'under powered". I do not mind going slow but still forward, but I have some issues with standing still when I don`t want to.

lostviking, sorry you received more advice on your experience and navigation than answers to your questions. We have a MT 34DC with the Ford Lehman. We have also done the trip south through the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, DR and we turned right to Cuba instead of left down island. We didn't do the trip in our trawler but have a good idea of the conditions you will encounter. I doubt there will be any situations along your route where the currents will be any issue with the FL 120. Sea state will be another consideration altogether and the engine will play only a small part. These trawlers are typically very uncomfortable in beam seas and the shorter the seas the less comfort levels. So the advise you have been given to pay close attention to weather and have a good handle on being able to judge when you will have a decent weather window will be more important than the power of the FL 120. As long as the engine keeps running and the weather is right, you will have a great trip. Now, weather windows can slam shut, so offshore in long runs, the longest will be between the T&C and the DR, things can change. If I remember correctly that part of the trip took us about 36 hours at 6 to 7 knots. I could be off a bit. The boat can do it as belizebill has done the trip all the way to Guatemala, another trip that we have also done. We would not hesitate to take our boat down the western Caribbean. Good luck. Chuck

Thanks Chuck!

I like advice!

My dad is an old sailor and he might join us for fun.
The weather is the big issue here for sure, but I have no real time schedule, but it would be nice to do it on less than two months.

Yes, I plan to get the tanks flushed and cleaned, carry extra filters ect.

Have any of you converted a trawler to run on bio fuels? that cleans the engine quite well.

I don't know any trawler owners that have done it. Primary reason being the unavailability of biofuels in marinas. Personally, I'd love to switch, but I'd be lugging it down to the docks and fueling my own boat from 55 gallon drums to do it.


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Friday 24th of February 2012 06:41:41 AM

Carl is right on about the fuel tanks. My boat had spent most of its lif up and down the I C W with the most sea's being created by the dreaded Sea Rays, When we hit 6' beam seas in the Yuatan channel, I started clogging filters, 5 in all, tanks are nice and clean now. BB

The book "The Gentleman's Guide To Passages South" cost several hundred dollars used and up to over a thousand!?! why? Is it worth it?

Because it is out of print and Bruce's health is not great so it will never be reprinted by him. It is a very popular book but people are just trying to make as much money from it as possible. We gave our copy away and it was signed by Bruce. These prices are just a rip off but I guess it is true that there is a sucker born every minute. Chuck

lostviking wrote:
Some old captains in Norway said they wore "'under powered".*

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*My 93 year old Norwegian father-in-law piloted 40 foot boats with 20hp semidiesels on the Norway coast before joining the Norwegian Royal Navy. He thinks of a 120hp engine in a 36 foot boat as seriously overpowered!

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*My 93 year old Norwegian father-in-law piloted 40 foot boats with 20hp semidiesels on the Norway coast before joining the Norwegian Royal Navy. He thinks of a 120hp engine in a 36 foot boat as seriously overpowered!

*

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*Cool guy! He is probably an awesome sailor too.

lostviking wrote:
Do the design and a single 120 lehman or equal put up a decent fight if the weather gets rough?

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*Is your question about the reliability of the FL120 or its power?* They are two different issues.* An FL120 properly operated, serviced, and maintained is as reliable as any other engine and moreso than some.* They--- and the same-generation Perkins engines--- were used in commericial fishboats as well as recreational cruisers and as such have run long hours in a variety of conditions.

The one drawback to an FL120 on long cruises is the oil in the injection pump has to be changed every 50 hours.* This is not a long or difficult job--- I can do it in about ten minutes not counting the time it takes me to get into position round the back of our starboard engine.* But it's very important to do this no matter what people who will tell you that you can go hundreds of hours beween pump oil changes claim.* Believe them now if you want, pay a lot for their bad advice later.

Whether or not the FL120 is powerful enough for a particular situation is a whole different matter.* Depends on the boat, depends on the situation.* It is definitely not an engine you want to run at high power settings very long in an attempt to outrun bad weather.* The base Ford engine was not built for that kind of service, failed often when it was operated this way in the late 1950s when it first came out as a truck engine, and still will today.*

If you want enough reserve power to make your boat pick up and go--- even if that means going from 8 knots to 10 or 12--- the FL120 is not an engine I would recommend for that task.* Nor, in my opinion, is any engine from that era with the possible exception of a Detroit (of the engines I am familiar with).

But if the boat (and you) can take it in terms of water and weather conditions, the FL120 should too provided it's in good condition and is getting good fuel.

But I don't think the engine is so much the issue here.* For a passage of the type you are contemplating, I would pay close attention to the posters here who are talking about watching the weater and so on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a $30k boat of the type we're talking about here will most likely be in pretty rough shape.* The fuel tanks, for example, could be full of crud on the bottom.* And that has a far greater potential to stop you dead in the water if the weather kicks up than the engine's reliability as your filter(s) clog with the gunk stirred up by the boat's motion.

There could be leaks waiting to happen in the fuel system-- hoses, fittings, seals, etc.

Electrical systems can and probably will fail in some manner at some point on an old boat in the condition that $30k will get you.* The steering may be in iffy condition and let go or jam when you least need it to.* And so on.

So I would be FAR more concerned about the ability of a $30k cruiser of the type most of us on this forum have of making the journey than I would be about the abiity of the engine to make it, assuming the engine was not abused and poorly maintained in the past.

A survey will show you some of the problems but not all of them no matter how good the surveyor is.* Something that looks okay today can fail tomorrow.* It's the nature of old boats.* Actually, it's the nature of all boats because they live in an environment that is trying its best to destroy them with corrosion, rot, delamination, rust, etc.

Thank you!

I did not know about the 50 hrs oil change. That is frequent. It means about 4 oil changes on that passage.

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This is the kind of answer i was looking for initially, but there is so many great contributions here!

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Love this forum!

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The FL120 is happiest running at a fairly constant speed between 1500 and 1800 rpm. All else being equal, this yields the maximum service life. This is not my theory or belief but what I have been told by marine diesel experts and a retired fellow we met the other year who for decades had a business in England servicing, repairing, and overhauling Ford diesels including the Ford Dorset engine that is the base engine for the marinized FL120 This is why the engine proved to be a failure in its intended purpose as a truck engine but proved to be very successful as an agricultural and industrial engine running things like generators, cranes, pumps, tractors, and combines. All of them applications that required relatively low power, good torque, and fairly constant engine rpm. Which is also what made it ideal in its day as a marine engine.

Be aware that the FL135, Lehman's marinization of the Ford Dover diesel and which was used in boats of a later generation than those powered with the FL120, not only develops somewhat more power but does not have the 50-hour injection pump oil change requirement as its injection pump is lubed by the engine's circulating lube oil.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 26th of February 2012 03:51:59 PM

Is there any way to upgrade the Injector on the FL120 so it does not need frequent oil change?

lostviking wrote:
Is there any way to upgrade the Injector on the FL120 so it does not need frequent oil change?

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*Yea... Buy a Perkins!

I dont know of any, but its such an easy job I dont know why you would want to. Besides, every time you are in your engine room you learn a bit of something about her. Its one more thing to keep you on your toes to know whats going on down there, its your boats heart and you should know whats going on with it,with out it ,put up the sails. BB

Great argumentation. It is good to check for leaks and wear from time to time also. Every 50 hours seems good. It is only every 6th day or so if only doing long legs in daylight.