Cost of Boating?

Hey folks -

I've read quite a bit online about the 10%-15% of the boat price being spent annually for maintenance and usage, tabulating everything from moorage (fixed) to fuel costs (variable). A part of me wonders if the "boat price" really should be based on length, hull material, and usage of the boat, rather than boat price, as I've seen a $100k difference between two otherwise same make/model boats. I would imagine that the annual maintenance would be... identical?

Anyhow, can you folks share how your expenses shake out, and how you set up your budgets for it? My wife and I are narrowing our options down, and we've entered our known expenses into an Excel sheet. Things like insurance and moorage are easy. Fuel is harder, and variable based on time of year. We also plan to live on the boat, so we've got increased in heating/cooling to consider. But how much do you spend for haul out, bottom cleaning, oil changes, etc., etc? I'd like to see some real-world examples from people here on the forum.

Thanks!

Cost of boating? Too much regarding money... Nothing regarding the pleasure you bet from it.

Now concretely for me (in Canadian bucks)
Marina: around 3500$/year ( docking plus winter storage )
Fuel: around 1000$/year +- 20% depending of cruising time.
Regular maintenance (oil, filters etc): more or less 200$/year
Improvement/renovation budget: more or less 3000$/year (not everything necessarily required but because we want our boat to become what we want).
Insurance: more or less 800/year.
Misc usage (propane for cooking, or heating late Autumn, gasoline for generator and other consumables): between 200 and 500$/year.



L

Fair point. Here's the actual line of questioning:

Assuming equal high quality of boat condition, I'm trying to figure out if a $400k 1999 navigator 5800 is going to cost twice as much as a $200k 1996 bayliner 4788 on an annual basis. Assuming everything else being equal.

I've already penciled "pleasure" into the equation.

Heavier boat will burn more fuel. Bigger engines need bigger filters and more oil. Longer boat increase in dockage. You pay by the foot. More expensive boat equals more insurance. Bigger boat is more to clean. You might not be able to pick up mooring balls in some fields with larger boat.

Random thoughts.

I would expect the 10-foot-longer boat to cost much more. Every system added has its own hoses, wires, maintenance, replacement interval, etc. In many cases rates per foot increase for larger vessels, both at haul out and for moorage. More bottom paint. More wax. More energy to heat. Two 30amp cords/receptacles instead of one. A 50 amp instead of 2-30s. Etc etc etc.

You can save a significant amount of money if you have the time to do things yourself.

Example 1 - new electronics. Boat show rebates, buy online at most inexpensive places, no tax free shipping, remove old gear yourself, hire an installer that is willing to do only what you can not accomplish yourself. This is a “parts change” job and it is not difficult.

Example 2 - oil changes. Oil from Costco, filters purchased online, no tax free shipping. Do it yourself Sunday evening after the weekend trip. So 10 bucks/gallon for oil and 20 bucks for main engine filters. Thats $55 for us. You will have the opportunity to learn your machinery, find leaks, clean areas.

We do our own washing and waxing. We buy fuel when it goes down in price, not when we need it. Recently we were advised fuel went down to $2.41...and we filled up.

Would I like to send our favorite vendor a work list every Monday morning? Sure I would...but this is not in our budget. If the work is dangerous, complex, or I can not learn it at the time, we will contract it out.

We pay a diver about $150-$200 to clean the bottom and keep the zincs serviceable, about every 3 months AND before multi-week trips. I am close to purchasing a wet suit so I can do this myself.

Feel free to ask for specifics.

How much money do you have? That is what it costs...

That percentage to boat cost really isn't realistic. Far to many variables to be accurate even as an average. To start with, consider how many days a year the boat is used. Many boat are seasonal with maybe 20 to 30 days per year underway. Others may be cruising 100+ days per year. Simply, things can greatly affect the numbers such as daily transient dockage. Anchoring out can have a zero cost where as dockage every night in expensive areas can run $3 to $5 per foot. How a boat was maintained by the previous owner could have huge cost differences. Rebuilding an engine or replacing the generator could deflect the average for years. Consider purchase price. Two similar 50' boats, one new and one 10 years old could have similar annual cost even though the new boat cost 10 times as much to buy. Finally, there will be costs such as fuel that can vary based on how fast you operate the vessel, how many hours of run time per year, how many hours of generator time per year, and the fluctuating cost of fuel.

Ted

The 10 percent thing is just a guess. Some folks have no clue what operating a boat costs and need a number to wake them up to the realization that there are costs after purchase. Here's a few budget busters: New 8Kw gen set- $12.5K, New FB enclosure - $10K, new fuel tanks - every boat is different; repairing rotted decks under teak - Uncle Big Bill came to visit and won't leave!

If you plan 20-25%, hopefully you won't be stunned into stopping cruising and becoming a dock queen.

jovial_cynic said:

Fair point. Here's the actual line of questioning:

Assuming equal high quality of boat condition, I'm trying to figure out if a $400k 1999 navigator 5800 is going to cost twice as much as a $200k 1996 bayliner 4788 on an annual basis. Assuming everything else being equal.

I've already penciled "pleasure" into the equation.

Click to expand...

My estimate is it will cost 40-45% more. Not double. Percentages based on purchase price are useless. Is it used purchase price or the price of the boat when new? What expenses do you include? Is depreciation included?

But the 58' boat is approximately 40% more boat than the 48'. That's based on my experience and comparing many. If you had the GRT or the GT calculations they would reflect it. Weight will somewhat reflect it. The boat isn't just longer, but it's beamier. That means more space for more things from freezers to watermaker to heads to laundry to electronics. It also means docking and again it's not just 10' more but very often a higher rate per foot based on availability and general pricing. Sometimes even eliminates the cheapest marina. Haul out and bottom cleaning and painting are also not straight by linear feet. Engines likely larger and maintenance more expensive. None of this has anything to do with the price of the boat, but all due to the size and some additional due to the age of the larger boat. Insurance will definitely be more and, if you're in a state with property taxes, it will be. Then if you count depreciation in your costs, it's double.

Some may experience 20% difference and some 80% but I find the 40% number to generally be as good an estimate as any. Obviously, all this is just estimates. You'll need to work out details in a budget format and be specific for your uses and your location.

Made my calculations and increased the result by 50%. Result was close to correct.

There are so many other factors. Are you starting with a well maintained boat and letting it go to crap or are you starting with a poorly maintained boat and catching up on maintenance. What is your attitude towards deprecating items like canvas, you might not ever replace canvas or it might happen on your watch.

I have a 54’ boat in Seattle. Moorage-$13,000; Insurance-$3,000; Fuel-$6,000; mandatorily maintenance-$1,000; cosmetic maintenance-$1,000. Then there are the once every 10 year type items $10,000. So I spend about $35,000 a year on the boat. This doesn’t count planned upgrades or costs related to my dingy.

This year unexpected maintenance was new washer and dryer, circuit board for AC heat pump, membrane for water maker.

Then there are the really big years like when you replace the canvas or all the cushions or an engine rebuild.

The 10% of purchase price is a realistic metric if you want to keep the boat up so you don’t get killed when it comes time to sell. As always there are exceptions. If you run many hours per year fuel and maintenance will be more. If you own your own mooring or dock those costs will go down. If you put those savings back into the boat people will pay you more for it down the road.

jovial_cynic said:

Fair point. Here's the actual line of questioning:

Assuming equal high quality of boat condition, I'm trying to figure out if a $400k 1999 navigator 5800 is going to cost twice as much as a $200k 1996 bayliner 4788 on an annual basis. Assuming everything else being equal.

I've already penciled "pleasure" into the equation.

Click to expand...

'Assuming everything else being equal.'

OK - that is a direct answer I can help with.
We owned a 1995 Bayliner 4788 and we often cruised with a 53 Navigator and were friends with the owner - the real difference here is that the 58 Navigator is in a different size league with a much larger beam, weight and resultant size.
Various costs...
-costs of moorage and transients slips will be much less than 2X diff where we are
- cruising costs (fuel) at less than hull speed will be much less than 2X diff
- cruising costs when on plane will be 2X
- typical canvas, cleaning , polish , electronic updates , soft goods and the like will be much less than 2X and depend more on owners choice
- replace appliances, pumps, water heaters, furniture, etc will be much less than 2X
- engine parts, zincs, bottom paint, engine and trans work, oil changes, props, shafts, and the like will be 2X.

In general it depends much more on how the boats are maintained before you buy them and what condition they are in to get a suitable answer. You are looking at boats that are in completely different size categories so that makes a large difference in some areas.
Good luck with your search

The first few years of owning a boat will probably cost more. You will want to get the boat the way you want it--upgrades, repairs, etc. After that it should level out a little until the "surprise" things happen--genset, transmission, etc.

Comodave said:

How much money do you have? That is what it costs...

Click to expand...

Probably the simplest and most accurate answer!

jovial_cynic said:

Fair point. Here's the actual line of questioning:

Assuming equal high quality of boat condition, I'm trying to figure out if a $400k 1999 navigator 5800 is going to cost twice as much as a $200k 1996 bayliner 4788 on an annual basis. Assuming everything else being equal.

I've already penciled "pleasure" into the equation.

Click to expand...

The Navigator may end up costing more.

I have friends that own Bayliners and Navigators.

The Bayliners owners have normal maintenance and repair costs.

Three Navigators suffered from blisters and the hull drying, gel coat peeling and epoxy application was over $10,000 for each boat in 2001 prices.

Two Navigators had leaking fuel tanks and had to have them replaced at a cost over $20,000 in 2008 prices.

I've not heard of a Bayliner suffering from blisters or leaking fuel tanks and there are many more Bayliners than Navigators.

syjos said:

The Navigator may end up costing more.

I have friends that own Bayliners and Navigators.

The Bayliners owners have normal maintenance and repair costs.

Three Navigators suffered from blisters and the hull drying, gel coat peeling and epoxy application was over $10,000 for each boat in 2001 prices.

Two Navigators had leaking fuel tanks and had to have them replaced at a cost over $20,000 in 2008 prices.

I've not heard of a Bayliner suffering from blisters or leaking fuel tanks and there are many more Bayliners than Navigators.

Click to expand...

I agree with your assessments but from what we have seen a 1999 Navigator will be well past these issues in 2018 - either the blisters have been fixed or they will be very obvious when viewing the boat.
FWIW - I have seen the blisters on the Navigators and they were not
surveyed of reported as structural on the one they fixed and was on the hard next to our boat back around 2002 or so.
Just our observation here in the NE.

I had a 35' in charter service. 10% was close but I did 90% of the labor.

cafesport said:

The 10% of purchase price is a realistic metric if you want to keep the boat up so you don’t get killed when it comes time to sell. As always there are exceptions. If you run many hours per year fuel and maintenance will be more. If you own your own mooring or dock those costs will go down. If you put those savings back into the boat people will pay you more for it down the road.

Click to expand...

I agree.

With the caveat the vessel is in good shape already and doesn't need a bunch of expensive upgrades when you get it.

Boat = Break Out Another Thousand - I have-found this to be true.

Just think as you and your friends are sitting on the boat enjoying a sunset, something in your boat is wearing out, leaking or already broken.

No matter how hard I try to maintain my boat, keep it clean and keep it afloat, old Murphy's Law is not far behind. If it can go wrong at some point it will.

Boating is NOT for everyone. We are the few who endure the hardships to enjoy the wonderful benefits of boating. I know one day I will say enough is enough, but until then will you please hand me that wrench?

I have found the biggest factor to be who does the work. Two people with identical boats can spend vastly different amounts for the same work. That will not impact fixed costs such as insurance, moorage, etc. The biggest difference is between the DIY person and the full service boater.


For example, I own a 33' wooden cruiser. The annual maintenance includes: engine service, complete painting of the boat (topsides, bottom, trim, decks), varnishing all outside wood and repairing any suspect wood. This year I estimate the time spent at about 200 hours. Materials costs for my annual maintenance this year ran about $350. I am a DIY boater so that was my total cost. If I had been a full service boater I would have to add in 200 hours of paid labor for a cost of at least $15,000 ($75/hr). That makes for a rather large difference.


Fixed costs remain constant:


Haul/launch, pressure wash hull - $600


Inside cold storage - $1,500


Insurance - $750


Marina - $4,000


Fuel - $100-$200 (pure displacement hull cruising at 5.5 to 7 knots).


Total - approximately $7,000


Doing all work myself my total cost is say $7,500. If I hired the work done the total would be at least $22,500. Incidentally, I paid $6,500 for the boat (it needed a "little" work). So based on the purchase price my DIY costs run about 115% per year. If I was a full service boater the costs would be around 350% of purchase price. For perspective, "a little work" equates to about 3,000 hours of my labor before the boat was launched after my purchase. I got a yard estimate of $350K for the needed work when I bought the boat.

I find the 10-15% figure to be basically accurate as long as a major repair does not rear its ugly head...but if you don’t expect or accept that then perhaps don’t get into boating...I love my boat and feel the price is just the cost of doing what I have chosen to do.

Beyond who does the work, dyi or hired, is where you are boating. From what I’ve heard about moorage on the east coast verses in the PNW, there’s a huge difference. I’m in the process of bringing our boat up to snuff after purchasing it with a bunch of deferred maintenance. This year is painful because I had to replace the props, service everything back to the transmissions, installed a new diesel furnace and repair the potable water tank. I did the work myself and am in for about five boat bucks. I bought the boat for 15-20k under the market sale value and will end up in the 10k range when I have it to the comparable condition. However, I can do 95% of the work myself. My insurance is less than my previous gasoline powered boat and the fuel burn is surprisingly less.
The comment about surprises and above average maintenance years is absolutely accurate. One thing for sure. If I couldn’t do the work myself, something I thoroughly enjoy, I couldn’t afford the boat. Let me restate that, I’d refuse to afford the boat. Paying over $100 an hour for a semi skilled laborer or as a shop standard rate for a skilled tech to change the oil and filters is just not going to happen. Service the injectors or pump, sure.
Years ago when we were deciding on a family recreation I looked at the cost of camping, owning a motor home, road trips with motels, the big annual trip, chartering a boat and owning a boat and found the costs to be really close enough that it didn’t matter. We have had a boat for about 40 years, raised our four kids and are enjoying our grandkids boating. The trick is, just like buying a used car, understanding the known, recognizing there will be known unknowns and unknown unknowns.

Here's a thought.

This boat sold for $4,000. It took a year and a half to restore, with costs probably double that of the sale.



But look at the results, and no mooring costs!



So for less than 20k you have a coastal cruiser with all the comforts of home that you can also launch at any inland lake and use as a guest house when parked in the back yard.

Mine was in substantially better shape at 10k and I put about 10k into it.
We sleep 7, she has generator to power her rooftop air conditioning, hot water stand up shower, full - double sink galley, 4 burner stove, microwave, and a freezer on the aft deck.
https://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2012/09/houseboat-2000-miles-to-lake-powell.html

If you want a 'jewelry boat' these obviously aren't for you, but if you want a coastal liveaboard at an affordable price with negligible maintenance, it might be an option?

My breakdown. 150k boat
31’ single 2mpg . I do all my own work, dock at my house, haul out 1 a year.
It doesn’t get much cheaper boating then that. I still spend +10k a year
I do constantly upgrade so boat is in as new condition.

jovial_cynic said:

Fair point. Here's the actual line of questioning:

Assuming equal high quality of boat condition, I'm trying to figure out if a $400k 1999 navigator 5800 is going to cost twice as much as a $200k 1996 bayliner 4788 on an annual basis. Assuming everything else being equal.

I've already penciled "pleasure" into the equation.

Click to expand...

The 10% formula makes no sense. Consider a boat that has reached the age where it would sell for half the original price. Would selling that boat instantly cut annual costs in half, as compared to what the original owner was paying? Moreover, wouldn't many of the maintenance costs be increasing at that point? Things like slip fees, bottom cleaning costs and even insurance very tremendously from one region to the next. Maintenance costs depend quite a bit on the make/model of boat. Some engines are notoriously more expensive to maintain than others. Some boats have lots of brightwork (which is pricey to keep in tip top condition, if you don't do it yourself). Moreover, if you blow up an engine/transmission, it could easily cost 10% (or, if you bought used, quite a bit more) of the boat's original cost.

I have never budgeted boat costs, but have never owned a boat for which that cost is material. My first boat cost (used) $3,500 and I probably spend $700 per year on it. I could comfortably afford that at the time. To really enjoy a boat, I think that is the necessary approach.

This from Traveler:

I have never budgeted boat costs, but have never owned a boat for which that cost is material. My first boat cost (used) $3,500 and I probably spend $700 per year on it. I could comfortably afford that at the time. To really enjoy a boat, I think that is the necessary approach.

I also hold the view that this is the winning strategy. Give yourself a chance to have fun with all of the liberty that that must entail. Don't stretch to the point that this could become tyranny. A lot of fun can be had for very little money in both purchase and care costs. Own boats that are unlikely to add strife to your life. If that means small and simple, then that is an excellent choice. I still own a 1958 Thornes 14 footer and when I walk by that boat I am always flooded by memories of the incredible fun I have had with that boat. It is unlikely that anything I currently own can exceed that amount of fun on many levels. I enjoy the boats I have now and they cause me no strife. Same as that old Thornes in her day.

MYTraveler said:

I have never budgeted boat costs, but have never owned a boat for which that cost is material. My first boat cost (used) $3,500 and I probably spend $700 per year on it. I could comfortably afford that at the time. To really enjoy a boat, I think that is the necessary approach.

Click to expand...

I do budget but not as a matter of restricting myself, just as a matter of forecasting and comparing. I budget everything. However, otherwise I totally follow your approach. I will not buy anything, boat or otherwise that will cause me stress. That's the opposite of enjoyment to me. I see people overextend themselves at all levels. Some fall victim to friends who find it easy to spend their money with lines like "get this one. You can afford it." There are different levels of affording and if it's going to cause me stress, I don't want it. There are people with $40 million boats worrying because they don't have enough charter bookings. There are people with $5000 boats worrying about fuel costs. It's not worth it.

My first boat was likely many years after yours but it purchased new for somewhere between $13000 and $15000. Annual maintenance about $1000. Storage about $2400 a year. First boat I had to pay for myself (not parents) was about 10 years later and about double that.

Jovial Cynic,
As others have stated, costs depend greatly on a number of factors:
Region - moorage, fuel, even labour vary
Age of boat - older boats usually cost more in terms of maintenance, repair, and upgrades.
Condition of boat - has it been well maintained and also documented so you know what was done and what was not done?
For example, when we purchased Pilitak, the surveyor stated that it was in the best condition of any boat of that age (14 years old) that he had surveyed. We still spent over $35,000 on repairs, maintenance, and some upgrades in the first 1.5 years!!! That does not factor in moorage, insurance, fuel, etc. etc. and we still have 15 year old electronics.

Make all your estimates, double it. That’s if you do the work yourself. Don’t sweat the cost of fuel, it pales in significance with insurance, mooring, haulouts etc. A gallon of bottom paint is $350 and will be applied by a high school kid that the yard charges $50/ hour for.

“Boating is the best time you can buy.” Seriously. But you have to love working on your boat, polishing and painting and mechanical work and replacing or repairing things. It must, however, be your hobby. If you have no time except weekends because you work and you must pay someone to change your oil, rent one when you want to float and put your money in an RRSP. All those green boats covered in bird sh!t and swinging on buoys are boats in which the owners lost interest in any aspect of the boat thing. In my 6 years of ownership and with the exception of haulouts I do my own work and conservatively estimate that I have tripled the purchase price without any outside labour costs. 6 years