Wire size confusion

So I picked up a big hank of nice wire at the scrap yard. Welding cable type stuff. I thought it said 2/0 but after getting it home I see that it says #2 AWG. But I looked up the diameters of cable and 2 ga claims to be .257” and this is bigger than that, but I can’t tell if it’s .364” like 00 is. So, what the heck?

Is it tined, what’s he temp rating? There is more to wiring than just size.

Not not tinned. I’ll post pic of the specs it has on it.
It’s rated 105°C. It also has a section size of 35mm2 so that does appears to be closer to 2ga than 2/0.
Oh well, still good stuff and totally worth 20$.

Welding cable has no place in a marine application for the following reasons:
1. The ultra fine stranding in the cable has a propensity for wicking moisture. Once this starts, the strands corrode and fail.
2. The insulation is not oil resistant as is required for boat cable.
3. The AWG sizing is SAE AWG, not Boat Cable AWG; therefore there is, on average, about 12% less copper present in the SAE cable.

CharlieJ said:

Welding cable has no place in a marine application for the following reasons:
1. The ultra fine stranding in the cable has a propensity for wicking moisture. Once this starts, the strands corrode and fail.
2. The insulation is not oil resistant as is required for boat cable.
3. The AWG sizing is SAE AWG, not Boat Cable AWG; therefore there is, on average, about 12% less copper present in the SAE cable.

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Agree -
While welding cable "appears" to be "good" stuff it is not recommended for marine applications - very fine strands and not tinned

Wow okay that’s interesting. So what qualifies cable for marine use and where do we get it? Does west marine have 2/0 cable? I suppose they do.

I agree with what others have said. It’s costs more, to be sure, but good quality marine wire/cable pays for itself in the long run. Also, see CMS’s website where he goes over many dos and don’ts of marine wiring and crimping.

Some really good stuff on his site:

https://marinehowto.com

Edit: also, check out Nigel Calder’s book on marine electrical stuff.

Jim

While I agree for what have been mentioned I need to temper a bit... Cable is one thing, but where it is used in the boat, for what usage and the quality of the crimp AND protection around the crimp make a great difference.
I am in fresh water and will not have any issue using non marine cable for something like my thruster or my windlass where the cable run is not subject to oil mist if the cable is well crimped and protected.
Like many things it is more about how you use it than what you use...

I am in the process to replace a lot of cables, because they were badly crimped, badly protected and not used in the right place.

Of course the best of the best is always to use best quality materials, that is a certain.

L

Sea Word said:

Wow okay that’s interesting. So what qualifies cable for marine use and where do we get it? Does west marine have 2/0 cable? I suppose they do.

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Worth looking up ABYC E-11 that covers AC & DC Electrical reqm'ts including wire / insulation types etc.
Also as JDC recommended CM's Marine How To articles are very informative
Here's one on battery cables which I'm guessing should be applicable if you are considering welding cable. Also don't assume solder connections are "better" - CM has articles on terminations that debunks that myth as well
https://marinehowto.com/making-your-own-battery-cables/

I buy a lot of wire and cable from bestboatwire.com. No affiliation just happy customer. Much cheaper than WMP.

Comodave said:

I buy a lot of wire and cable from bestboatwire.com. No affiliation just happy customer. Much cheaper than WMP.

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And you can find some good deals sometimes on amazon for ancor wires, but need to check as prices are changing almost everyday.

L

Comodave said:

I buy a lot of wire and cable from bestboatwire.com. No affiliation just happy customer. Much cheaper than WMP.

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Everybody is less expensive than WM. Their wholesale division discounts are not as good as other distributors.

Here in the Northwest, we have Fisheries Supply. They are both retail and wholesale and discounts are based on volume and type of account.

Free shipping on orders over $100 depending on the type of account.

There are other marine cable and wire manufacturers less expensive than Ancor.

Alamo and Cobra come to mind .

Freshwater or salt, tinned marine cable should be used.

Labor, even if it's you own time, costs more than materials.

It's a boat, use the correct cable.

Who wants to redo a wiring job because water penetrated the insulation or wicked.

Wire is cheaper almost anywhere other than WM, but..... If you are making up battery cables, you can walk into most WM stores, buy the wire, terminal ends and shrink wrap and make up the cable with their crimper right there. Very few of us have our own cable crispers.

Funny though how many marine manufacturers don't use tinned wire in their products or even marinize the complete unit.

Greetings,
Mr. ps. "...don't use tinned wire..." Might it be that there is NO regulation requiring the use of tinned wire on board a vessel? Not a bad idea to use tinned wire but NOT a legal requirement.

According to the WM website. Every WM store in my vicinity has 2-0 in stock. I couldn't say the same for your location. It is worth a look.

psneeld said:

Funny though how many marine manufacturers don't use tinned wire in their products or even marinize the complete unit.

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Thanks for posting that.

I have looked at a lot of OEM battery plant installations on various brands and never seen a OEM tinned wire.

Yet if you do it somehow it’s unsafe....

ksanders said:

Thanks for posting that.

I have looked at a lot of OEM battery plant installations on various brands and never seen a OEM tinned wire.

Yet if you do it somehow it’s unsafe....

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Using untinned wire or cable is not unsafe. It reduce possibility of wire corrosion.

Every time I take old wire and cable out of boats, I strip insulation off and examine the wire and often the untinned wire strands are black from water intrusion. And the black extend into the crimped terminal which is not good.

OEM is not a guarantee of proper installation practices. Many boat manufacturers utilize improper materials and equipment to reduce manufacturing cost.

Sea Word said:

Wow okay that’s interesting. So what qualifies cable for marine use and where do we get it? Does west marine have 2/0 cable? I suppose they do.

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I have purchased custom made-to-order battery cables from these guys. The prices have been good and the service excellent.


https://www.genuinedealz.com/

Welding cable DOES make great jumper cables. Also useful around boats. I have been on both sides of that equation.

FWIW. When I repowered Spy, I removed some welding cable from the battery to the starter. It was in fine and dandy shape for being in service for 27 years. Yes. I replaced it with tinned as I needed a longer cable. Didn't have a proper crimper, so I bought them online.

Based on what I have observed on my boat, in industry, and in the US Navy, I would have little worries using non-tinned wire onboard.

Tempest in a teapot.

dhays said:

I have purchased custom made-to-order battery cables from these guys. The prices have been good and the service excellent.


https://www.genuinedealz.com/

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Genuinedealz & Bestboatwire are identical websites except most prices are better on bestboatwire site. Very strange.
They are located in Brunswick , Ga and I have had excellent service.

"There are other marine cable and wire manufacturers less expensive than Ancor."

This is true , but Anchor used to brag their wire was 10% larger in each rating.

I have yet to hear "that DC part burnt up because the voltage was too good".

Usually (hopefully) you get what you pay for.

syjos said:

Using untinned wire or cable is not unsafe. It reduce possibility of wire corrosion.

Every time I take old wire and cable out of boats, I strip insulation off and examine the wire and often the untinned wire strands are black from water intrusion. And the black extend into the crimped terminal which is not good.

OEM is not a guarantee of proper installation practices. Many boat manufacturers utilize improper materials and equipment to reduce manufacturing cost.

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My point is if you use tinned wire for say 20 feet or so...only to connect it to an appliance pigtail of untinned wire, ultimately what have you accomplished? Or not?


As a marine installer I know, but want others to think about it rather than just accept internet banter.

Bacchus said:

Worth looking up ABYC E-11 that covers AC & DC Electrical reqm'ts including wire / insulation types etc.
Also as JDC recommended CM's Marine How To articles are very informative
Here's one on battery cables which I'm guessing should be applicable if you are considering welding cable. Also don't assume solder connections are "better" - CM has articles on terminations that debunks that myth as well
https://marinehowto.com/making-your-own-battery-cables/

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All good information but not always applicable to the situation. Tied up at the dock near sources of wire, crimpers, expert advice (sometimes costly) yes it makes sense to follow all the rules that you can. Out in the boonies miles from everything, we sometimes have to make do. For instance crimping a terminal on a cable or wire can also be done with a vice grip. I wouldn't do that if it was for an aircraft, but a boat is a little different, and if you are just repairing the wiring to the head, it is not quite as critical.
It takes a little testing and skill to get crimping right with a vice grip.
They may not recommend soldering connections, but I always solder my crimped connections. I was originally trained by the USAF to repair aircraft Radar sets. Over the many years since, I have had many other positions involving electronics repair. I have seen a lot of so called professional crimps fail. When I crimp a terminal. I first tin the wire and use
solder paste inside the crimp. (Of course tinned stranded wire is best because over time it holds up better to corrosion and vibration) then crimp the wire firmly but not so tight as to crush the wire strands. Just a firm physical connection. Then I solder the wire and the crimp by flowing the solder into the crimp until I can see it has fully flowed around the wire and the crimp. I then clean the connection with alcohol. Then as an additional repair I will have put shrink wrap over the connection area. Or lacking that, wrap several turns of electrical tape around the connection. Not finished yet, I then use nylon lacing tape around the taped connection with a restrictor knot, as electrical tape over time tends to unwind.
Sometimes soldering crimps can't be done if the metal used for the terminal is not easily soldered, and then I can only crimp it. The right sized wire and
terminal for the application is also important, but that is a different issue.

I know what you mean. Sometimes the way you know is still the best for you because you can have faith in an aspect of it through experience. For example soldering a swage connection, I’ve seen solder fail, and I’ve seen crimps fail, but I’ve seen crimps fail at about 1000% higher rate than any solder joint.

I like using those silicon filled cramps and splices. Also nice to know the manufacture specs for the number of crimps per connector.

Agree, best practice is the one you have repeatedly done over and over... as i strives for perfection.

I don’t like to solder connections because it creates a hard spot in the wire where the stranded wire can’t bend. If it flexes enough it will break at the end of the solder. I always carry a quality racheting crimper on the boat so I can always make a proper crimp. I don’t always carry my big crimper for battery cable but battery cables properly installed don’t often need replacing. I have gone through almost all of my battery cables so the chances of having a problem in a remote area are small.

I have dual heavy welding cables that are about 50 years old. I have a long boat and a PO installed it for a long run from the 12v house batteries to a distribution panel in the wheel house. The cable ends are sealed and appear to be in excellent shape, no breaks in the cover and almost no voltage drop under full load.