To have or not to have a pilothouse?

In shopping for our boat we have put a pilot house at the top of our priority list but we have never had one or used one so my question is, what do you consider to be the advantages and disadvantages of a pilot house vs. a helm station off the salon. We are looking at 45' boats and we also like having a flybridge for outside piloting. Is is nice to have that separate "room" in the boat? do you find it moves a lot with wave action? Any opinions would be great.

I think the pilot house is a lonely place...

We have 3 stations- flybridge, salon, and starboard stern. I drive from the flybridge 95% of the time. A PH with a day bunk and double doors would be nice...

Just one person’s opinion
We are currently transitioning from a helm off the salon (Cutwater 30 cb) to a larger boat with a separate pilot house - Symbol 45 pilothouse. Both the Symbol and the Cutwater also have Fly Bridges. We did not make extensive use of the Fly Bridge while cruising the Cutwater for two years here in the Pacific NW and probably won’t use the one on the Symbol much more. Our first cruise on the new to us Symbol was from Baltimore to Fort Lauderdale where we loaded it on a transport ship that just passed thru the Panama Canal on the way to Victoria BC where we’ll reclaim it. The almost 2 week trip down the Intracoastal waterway started out in cold windy weather then transitioned to hot humid conditions that wusses like us aren’t comfortable in. So we spent most of our time inside enjoying the air conditioning (a new experience for us). The pilothouse gave us just what we wanted - more room and a chance to have separate spaces when we wanted them. There are many other pros and cons to the two experiences that everyone probably would experience differently, but so far it seems like a good move to us. This summer we’ll get even more important feedback when we introduce our two big standard poodles to all that room.
Take your time, try out both styles of boats and go the way that feels best.

IMO if you are planning any night cruising then you should have a separate PH that is light-box tight. Remember, your boat is a boat-first and a condo-second.

Also, there is the complete coolness factor to a PH. Your command post. It's like a guy with a workshop in his garage or a man cave in his basement.

This is our first powerboat. We have always had sailboats in the past. We wanted a PH design vs a helm in the salon. I really like the visibility from the PH. It is a very comfortable place, not only when underway, but it provides a nice spot to get away and read etc... when at anchor or at the dock. However, we are in the Salish Sea in Washington State. Like BobnDoc we find that we rarely use the flybridge. The PH is just such a great place to be. Out of the wind and chill (our water temps are always cold) and when it is hot and sunny we are out of the sun. In other parts of the country folks seem to use the flybridge almost exclusively so a PH may be redundant.

If you are looking at new boats, check out the North Pacific 45 Pilothouse. IMO it is the nicest layout for a 45’ PH design I’ve seen.

Personally we prefer a separate pilot house, because clearly separate zone between light (kitchen, saloon ) and navigation zone and normally better visibility aft, but if you don't navigate at night and keep a good visibility aft it could be interesting choice to get a feeling of bigger volume.
Also wheelhouse or pilot place need to have one door on each side don't need to cross the salon with wet salty suits (it happen rarely we are not masochists )

I do like a nice pilot house, good ones just have that feel. Makes you want to settle down and enjoy the trip.

That said, I also have a negative associated opinion. On boats say roughly less than about 55 feet, the trade offs in having a pilot house, well they ask too much of the boat. You wind up with a cramped salon/galley combo. I just don’t generally like the overall result. On boats over that size, generally not a problem.

Just my opinion.

I also think it has a lot to do with weather where you boat. If it is often extremely hot or wet I would choose a pilot house over salon helm or flybridge helm but in moderately dry climates with pleasant temperatures I much prefer a flybridge helm. Locking thru is another consideration as easy access to side decks makes life a lot easier if you intend to do many locks. I also love the North Pacific 43 or 45 if I were to do a pilothouse.

To my mind the PH should be bright airy and roomy as the crew will collect there in daytime , esp if the weather sucks.

We have 2 stations. The upper helm and the pilot house. The separation of the salon and PH allow for 2 separate places for social interaction. The salon also offers media opportunities w/o disturbing the watch. The PH also offers room below for engine/mechanicals while allowing a lower design profile of the boat overall which to me is more aesthetically pleasing in a small boat while creating lower windage in docking situations. I agree with ghost that the PH does ask a lot of a small boat hence we do not have a 2nd cabin but on night passages the PH shines. At the upper station we have only a bimini with no side curtains so all watchkeeping is done from the PH. No one is allowed outside without another crew in visual contact. PH can be sealed from light interference and since you are standing on the engine room it is easier to monitor subtle changes in sounds.

Don

I like the elevation of the pilothouse. Better visibility forward and to to sides than a saloon without the excessive motion of the flybridge. Having all your displays at one helm is great. Heat, air conditioning, or great airflow for climate control is wonderful. Complete protection from inclement weather is a must. A few steps down to the galley and a few more to the head when single handing is convenient. It can be as quiet as you like with a greater distance from the engine and closing the side doors.

Having all those features and a comfortable bench seat for friends makes it extremely social.

Ted

Around here, crab pot visibility is an issue. We can see those from our flybridge, but would not be able to see 'em from a lower helm (if we had one) if it was not in a raised pilot house.

-Chris

For me, there are only two advantages to a pilot house: if you travel a lot a night and if you want to get out of the weather. We have helm stations on the flybridge and inside the salon. I drive 98% of the time from the flybridge. I much prefer being in the open air, plus visibility is better. When it’s cold, we just close an isinglass enclosure and we’re fine with temperatures in the low 40s. The only time I drive from below is when it gets really hot.

We don’t travel much at night, other than occasional trips offshore for a few days at a time. On those trips, I prefer driving from the flybridge, so not having a pilot house is no disadvantage.

I would prefer to have that space for living area.

Paul

Also I'd say that if you plan ocean cruising then that needs to be done from the PH. I remember climbing up to the flybridge when I was 30 miles offshore and it felt really insecure.

I favor a PH for many of the reasons mentioned. In our boat I also find it convenient that I can access the engine hatch in the PH sole and not disrupt activity in the saloon. The forward berth and head are still accessible as well. I don't have a fly bridge and don't really miss it. Perhaps if I were cruising in the Bahamas I might due to the better angle to visibly navigate shalliws and ariund coral

Once again, opinions all over the map with some being credible from lots of experience, others not so much



First and foremost, have yet to be in a pilothouse of anything from 26 feet to 399 feet that you can see anything at night through windows. You either go outside or stick your head outside or look through an open window for true night vision. That includes most aircraft too.


Are there a few vessels out there that you can see from the pilothouses clearly at night? Maybe, but out of hundreds I have driven, I haven't been aboard one.



Other than that, there are good and bad pilothouses for all different uses of a boat.


Many people never cruise at night while others overnight regularly. Some boats ARE more condo like than long range cruiser....what fits your boating style?


Opinions are great to verify what you might like, but to point you in the right direction is like using a compass with no magnetic properties....

We have a smaller boat (34.5 FT overall) with a pilot house, and we cannot see ever having another boat without one. While it does take up some space from the saloon, it is also a separate room we use all the time - for piloting, of course, but also to enjoy the view while having coffee at anchor. It has really extended our boating season, as well. When it is too cold, wet or hot to enjoy being outside, we love being one of the only boats out for a ride while enjoying our heated or cooled driving station. When we have a group on board with us, it also separates the driver from all the hubub (very helpful when driving at night). When it rains, we just close the windows and doors, no need to deal with canvas. And being out of the sun is probably good for our skin long term. We have excellent visibility, and with the side doors I can pull up to a dock very easily when just the two of us or even alone. I can step right from the steering station to the dock. Flybridges are nice on perfect days, but given the choice we'd take a pilothouse over a flybridge anytime. As an example, we have the smallest boat of all of our boating friends. While we often jump on one of the larger boats if the group wants to go for a cruise or to a restaurant, in the shoulder season everyone wants to take the tug even though it is smaller. One other benefit is that it breaks up the space between our forward berth and the saloon, which is nice when we have guests staying the night. We don't have a separate guest cabin, so they stay on the pull out in the saloon with nice separation.

I've had both. My previous Nordic Tug had the pilothouse and I loved it. I had excellent visibility at night. There was proper room for all of my electronics and then some. It was a very nice place to be for long stretches of time. However, the pilothouse is a considerable percentage of overall space and it's got a pretty dedicated use.

My current boat has a helm station in the salon. I've never used it. I drive 100% of the time from the fly bridge. I find the visibility from the salon pretty bad. Plus there's not a lot of room for electronics. If I would try to install the full suite of electronics I'd want, it would reduce visibility for people in the salon and take up space that can be used for other things.

In short, pluses and minuses for both options.

psneeld said:

Once again, opinions all over the map with some being credible from lots of experience, others not so much



First and foremost, have yet to be in a pilothouse of anything from 26 feet to 399 feet that you can see anything at night through windows. You either go outside or stick your head outside or look through an open window for true night vision. That includes most aircraft too.


Are there a few vessels out there that you can see from the pilothouses clearly at night? Maybe, but out of hundreds I have driven, I haven't been aboard one.



Other than that, there are good and bad pilothouses for all different uses of a boat.


Many people never cruise at night while others overnight regularly. Some boats ARE more condo like than long range cruiser....what fits your boating style?


Opinions are great to verify what you might like, but to point you in the right direction is like using a compass with no magnetic properties....

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I have never had any problem seeing everything - let alone anything at night, but then my window is raked back. I don't suffer from instrument glare bouncing around either. Maybe that's why boats that spend serious amounts of time underway at night ie. trawlers and naval craft have raked windows.

As usual, depends on the boat.



I drive 99 percent of the time from the salon.


More advxntages then disadvantages....On my boat...to me.....


Hard to make a sweeingconclusion across a huge selection of boats, captains and cruising styles.


Pick a particular boat and..... current owners and experienced boaters can give specifics that may or may not apply.

bogranjac1 said:

I have never had any problem seeing everything - let alone anything at night, but then my window is raked back. I don't suffer from instrument glare bouncing around either. Maybe that's why boats that spend serious amounts of time underway at night ie. trawlers and naval craft have raked windows.

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Been on plenty of raked window boats and any amount of light inside usually inhibits night vision.


The pros generally agree and why lookouts are often outside when conditions permit.

On several designs, a pilot house gets you just a few degrees higher enough to see that log in the water in front of your bow. I've got one and love it but I also have pilot house doors on both sides, which I highly recommend.
Again its personal choice but I've never had or wanted a fly bridge because it's either too hot, too cold, bugs, and i'd prefer to limit the number of trips i take to a dermatologist.
In addition to the other manufacturers mentioned, I'd suggest the OP look at Nordic 42, or American Tug 41/435.

psneeld said:

Been on plenty of raked window boats and any amount of light inside usually inhibits night vision.


The pros generally agree and why lookouts are often outside when conditions permit.

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yes of course, but hey I can only speak of my experiences.

This is easy to check out if you have a marina with a Nordic Tug roughly around 30 feet and a Ranger Tug, roughly around 30 feet. So before I begin, my bias for the waters around me is for an Express Cruiser, not a trawler - sometimes I want speed, i can always slow down.

To me the Ranger Tug is an express cruiser in drag. I mean how fast can it go and how fast can a true tug go, no contest. But the Ranger has a layout I like, the inside helm is open to the rest of the cabin. You have no isolation so that when guest are with you or your partner is present, you are part of the social group.

Now if you look at a Nordic Tug, you are isolated from the your guests. Its kind of like the new open concept in kitchens. Most don't want to be isolated in a kitchen when guests come over, the cook still wants to be part of the socializing; hence the removal of walls if you watch those renovation shows. Usually the first thing to go is the wall between the living room and kitchen.

I also feel, especially on smaller boats such as my 29 foot express cruiser, the salon area feels and is bigger when the inside helm is part of and not separated from the salon. So the salon on the Ranger Tug will feel larger than the salon on the Nordic Tug.

Now for the suggestion you need isolation to properly and safely maneuver a boat, this of course just doesn't hold water, so to speak. Driving a car is much more dangerous than boating ever will be, every time we pass a car, a car passes us, we turn, back up, and park we put ourselves at risk far more often than boating. Yet we have passengers in a car frequently in the "salon."

For night boating, you just need to ensure you have proper night lighting while under way. I'm putting a new LED, four little rectangle jobbie with both blue and white light, the blue for night time piloting. You will lose your night time vision if a bright light comes on but use an infantry trick. If you have to have a light on for a short period of time for whatever reason, close one eye and leave it closed, it will retain night vision, you'll probably only need one eye to complete your task, like get a pop out of the fridge.

We really dig our raised pilothouse. It's where everyone gathers when underway (it has a big L-shaped Settee and a watch berth), we have great visibility, it's protected and warm in the winter and it doubles as a "room/office" when not underway.

makobuilders said:

Also I'd say that if you plan ocean cruising then that needs to be done from the PH. I remember climbing up to the flybridge when I was 30 miles offshore and it felt really insecure.

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I agree, especially at night and or in rough seas. Our pilot house also has a "watch berth" which allows the person off watch to sleep yet be readily available.

READY said:

I favor a PH for many of the reasons mentioned. In our boat I also find it convenient that I can access the engine hatch in the PH sole and not disrupt activity in the saloon. The forward berth and head are still accessible as well. I don't have a fly bridge and don't really miss it. Perhaps if I were cruising in the Bahamas I might due to the better angle to visibly navigate shalliws and ariund coral

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Agree. Also, having both port and starboard doors and stern-facing windows provide good visibility and environmental awareness.

psneeld said:

have yet to be in a pilothouse of anything from 26 feet to 399 feet that you can see anything at night through windows. You either go outside or stick your head outside or look through an open window for true night vision.

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For those who do long passages, it is not practical to stand watch with your head out the window. Hence I believe either having bridge wings or a Portuguese bridge is really helpful.

It's also not practical to actually stand watch from the bridge wing or Portuguese bridge if you are the sole watch stander. And they are not all that practical on ldsx than 40 foot vessels.


So "seeing" stuff in the water on dark, choppy nights is almost a joke except occasionally....... small boats and their operations are usually a compromisd in many ways.

As usual on TF, we chime in supporting our own choices supporting anchors, engines, sedan, pilot house, sun deck yada yada. If the OP were to be a bit more revealing on things like cruising grounds, desired boat speed, budget, boat appliances, number of berths, ER access etc possibly some different answers would spring forth.

My top of the list ocean traveler is a non pilot house FPB. When I was younger it was a Hinckley sail boat. Today, the cruising grounds are inhabited with motoring sail boats. Grand Banks made their name on thousands of non PH cruise worthy vessels.

Discussions about night vision just don't apply in many cruisers game plan for a variety of reasons in the PNW. Right now I'm in Petersburg AK with 18 hours of daylight. Probably 99.9% of most cruisers' miles are daylight only. I can't imagine why a sane person (commercial fishermen excepted) would consider a night time cruise in BC given the debris.

So what is it for the OP? A top shelf PH Nordhavn for crossing oceans, a coastal PH Selene, a hot selling Ranger Tug, a very nice older Grand Banks, a flush deck Hatteras, an Elling, Sea Ray, Aspen power cat, Albin, or Ocean Alexander sedan?

All of the aforementioned are great boats IMHO. So many choices, hopefully intended use is taken into account.