Roughwater

1981Seafarer said:

I am currently looking at two Roughwater 41s, both with single-turbo (non-intercooled) Detroit 8.2Ls.

Does anyone have the actual experience on what the top speed should be?
I am also looking for actual fuel burn at hull speed (~8 knots) and cruise speed (~7 knots).

I am not a fan of the 8.2L at all, and one of the boats is cheap enough to consider repowering (if the structure is still good, I haven't been aboard yet to check for rot) if/when the engine dies. Is there enough room to squeeze a Cat 3208, DD 6-71, or Cummins 5.9L under the floors?

Does anyone know which model Twin-Disc gear was used behind the 8.2Ls, and what the ratio might be?

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A friend has this boat with a single 8.2. I'll ask him about top speed and fuel consumption.

On the 8.2 Detroit, much has been written on it at boatdiesel.com, mostly negative as I recall. In fairness, though, the owner I reference above likes the engine and has run it trouble-free for at least 20 years. Another boat on my dock has twin 8.2's and he likes them. So.....opinions very greatly on it. I can't help you on whether the other engines you mention would fit in its place. The DD and Cummins may be too long, being straight 6's.

1981Seafarer said:

I am currently looking at two Roughwater 41s, both with single-turbo (non-intercooled) Detroit 8.2Ls.

Does anyone have the actual experience on what the top speed should be?
I am also looking for actual fuel burn at hull speed (~8 knots) and cruise speed (~7 knots).

I am not a fan of the 8.2L at all, and one of the boats is cheap enough to consider repowering (if the structure is still good, I haven't been aboard yet to check for rot) if/when the engine dies. Is there enough room to squeeze a Cat 3208, DD 6-71, or Cummins 5.9L under the floors?

Does anyone know which model Twin-Disc gear was used behind the 8.2Ls, and what the ratio might be?

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Though I never owned one, a close friend has. First.... That 8.2 is ok.... initially see to it is healthy, after that, maintain it, put fresh oil coolers on both the borg warner trans and engine, keep the others for spares. Check your heat exchanger and elbow. Gonna be in BFE then also pull turbo and have rebuilt. Get a BFE spares if you want to be extra careful. A spare starter and alternator would not hurt.

Why worry about top end and fuel usage... no big deal. The hull is basically a very well built, 8-9-10 knot full displacement hull. That is what you are going to live with...ain’t bad. The 8.2 has some warts, but which engine does not? Repowering is a bitch and almost always not worth it. Certainly not for a 6-71 or a 3208. 5.9, Ford L, John Deere all would argue better than an 8.2 but by the time the re-engineering, shafting, propping takes place you and your pocketbook will be begging for that 8.2. Spend the money on refrigeration, solar, windows and best of all anchor and chain or dancing girls..... afterthought, the tanks can be an issue, still though you have a HUGE engine room, so Pretty easy compared to twins. No need to saw the side out of the boat or pull engine(s).

I have a Canoe Cove with 8.2s. Those were not my first choice but after a couple of years I have no complaints. Running at 1600 rpm I'm using about 3.5 gallons per hour for both. We are approaching 4000 hours on the engines with no indication of major problems. The one thing to watch is temperature. These engines don't tolerate overheating. Some parts are getting hard to source is the other issue.



My plan for repower, should it become necessary is Cummins 5.9s of equivalent or slightly more hp. Per a diagram I saw the Cummins 3 inches longer from the prop flange and 1/4 inch taller.



if the 8.2 in the Roughwater has been maintained and serviced it could be a good package. With a good service history and an engine survey you could end up with a reliable engine package for sometime.

Mule said:

The hull is basically a very well built, 8-9-10 knot full displacement hull.

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Exactly. Trying to push this boat significantly faster is only going to be an exercise in wasting fuel. Monk knew what he was doing when he designed this boat. He put a single, moderate-hp engine in it for a reason. If 8-9 knots is not fast enough for you, then the Roughwater 41 is not the boat you want.

New Roughwater 41 owner checking in

Hello swabbies!
Just purchased Voyager, a Roughwater 41 we'll keep in Anacortes for cruising the beautiful Pacific NW! The longtime owner (guy who loved his boat and took it to Alaska numerous times) I hope to meet one day to swap stories and learn all the nuances of Voyager.
He was the owner before the person I bought the boat from, who basically used her as a condo as he lived in Hawaii. Our plan is to cruise the heck out of her!
The more I learn of the class, the more I like them. She's a single screw, was repowered 20 years ago to the Perkins Sabre engine (225 hp turbo) but only has 2,500 hours on the engine. Boat's in great shape, just has some minor cosmetic concerns and I'll upgrade her electronics to newer as I sort out what exactly I want.
Hope to connect with other Roughwater owners while in the NW!

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

Hey Fellow Roughwater Owners

We purchased a 37 earlier this year and have been having a great time with it ever since. Boat has twin 8.2 Detroits and has been upgraded with some nice improvements from the prior owner. Nice to see everyone loves their boat, I know we do

Looking forward to lots of fun times with it!

Hello folks; I have been setting on the dock here for a few years and have decided to say a few words. I have owned a roughwater 29 for 11 years. We live in Nova Scotia and I think we have the only 29 on the east coast. We enjoy our boat very much and dread the day when we have to give her up because of age, not the boat but our age. Right now she is on the trailer in our yard waiting for the weather to improve and to have a survey done so we can put her in the water and enjoy her. Have a great day , Gary.

Looked at a Roughwater 42, 1987. It appears to have fiberglass fuel tanks. Was that orginal equipment or did someone fiberglass over the old tanks? Thanks in advance

I own a 1987 42' Roughwater. My tanks appear to be aluminum.

Wine Down said:

I own a 1987 42' Roughwater. My tanks appear to be aluminum.

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Thanks. I've seen several broker write ups where they mention tanks being replaced. This boat definitely has fiberglass tanks ( looking at it again today), just makes one wonder why and how?

Btw, your overall opinion of your 42'? Anything that surprised you after buying it?

Thanks

I really like the boat. Great use of space, headroom, lots of storage especially the inside closets in the aft stateroom. Handles well, great visibility from the pilothouse for docking etc. No negative surprises. Not everyone seems to be a fan of the 8.2 Detroit diesels, but they have given me no problem.

I was looking at an old ad for another RW 42 and it had Fiberglass tanks listed. The name of the boat was "Plan Sea"

Hope my rambling helps
Jim

My Roughwater is a 29 foot, and it has fiberglass fuel tanks but I have never seen another Roughwater. As near as I know I have the only one of any size in eastern Canada. The 29 was built in Korea and only 12 were built. We have owned Waymaker for 12 years and have done many upgrades. We have always been happy with her , usually getting questions and comments wherever we go. Gary.

Hi all - thanks for the very informative thread!

I'm likely going to be taking a look at a 1975 Roughwater 35 in Newport CA tomorrow - any comments on suitability for summer family SoCal coastal cruising? Wife and I in the v-berth, 3 girls (6,10,12) in the aft cabin is what I'm thinking. We're coming from a 40' sailboat. Has a re-built 1991 Perkins 6.354 and looks to be well loved.

Let me know if there's anything in particular I should look for. Bit worried about headroom as I'm 6'2" but it could be a great compact & efficient boat for the price. Love the way she looks too.

Nice boats! Previous owners care will dictate how well it surveys and overall condition. Be glad it has the Perkins engine rather than the Detroit 8.2's which they put in a lot of RW's.

socalrider said:

Hi all - thanks for the very informative thread!

I'm likely going to be taking a look at a 1975 Roughwater 35 in Newport CA tomorrow - any comments on suitability for summer family SoCal coastal cruising? Wife and I in the v-berth, 3 girls (6,10,12) in the aft cabin is what I'm thinking. We're coming from a 40' sailboat. Has a re-built 1991 Perkins 6.354 and looks to be well loved.

Let me know if there's anything in particular I should look for. Bit worried about headroom as I'm 6'2" but it could be a great compact & efficient boat for the price. Love the way she looks too.

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Welcome aboard. Not familiar with that particular boat but they do seem to have a good reputation. Get a good survey and have a lot of fun.

Achilles heel or maintain-able?

My wife and I are considering our return to boating with a Roughwater 37 or 41. We had a Canoe Cove 41 for 8 years but we love the lines of a Roughwater and the simpler single engine to maintain. The one part that is holding us back are the rumors of trouble between the glass hull and the marine ply upper. Does anyone here have any experience with this? We would need to keep it outside but I am pretty on top of maintenance - assuming there are things I can do to avoid rot once it surveys well. All thoughts welcome and I am not sure if I should have started this as a new thread (couldn't figure that out) so advice welcome there too! Thanks,

Erik

These do have plywood deck houses that were reasonably well built. My Willard 36, like all pre-1980s Willards, has a plywood deck house with heavy glass over, more or less a female mold that was not removed. Willards have their faults, but rotting deck houses is not one of them.

A good friend and knowledgeable boater had a R37 for years. He always lamented selling her, so much so that he bought a replacement last year. He had it trucked from PNW to San Diego and had to remove the flybridge. He decided not to reinstall it and I have to say it's a great looking boat without the FB. Handles much better without the weight aloft. Lower helm station is very good.

I almost bought a R41 25 years ago. Unusual layout but functional. Those did seem to suffer more deck house rot than the R37, but thats only a passing observation of a few. Roughwater have a devoted following. I'm sure there are knowledgeable resources.

I like the R37. Not crazy about the larger twins in most, but I do like the boats traditional styling. Very nice for a couple. And very good hull design from Monk Sr

Peter

ErikWood said:

My wife and I are considering our return to boating with a Roughwater 37 or 41. We had a Canoe Cove 41 for 8 years but we love the lines of a Roughwater and the simpler single engine to maintain. The one part that is holding us back are the rumors of trouble between the glass hull and the marine ply upper. Does anyone here have any experience with this? We would need to keep it outside but I am pretty on top of maintenance - assuming there are things I can do to avoid rot once it surveys well. All thoughts welcome and I am not sure if I should have started this as a new thread (couldn't figure that out) so advice welcome there too! Thanks,

Erik

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I looked hard for a roughwater a few years back. I was after the 41 because I wanted a full time liveaboard / cruiser. All of the boats I looked at had lots of rot. If you're really serious I suggest you try to find one that's been kept under cover most of her life and be willing to pay a premium for that.

What I observed was the windows leak so a boat that has not been kept under cover is almost certain to have rot in the cabin sides. Pretty easy to spot leakers with the typical water stains and efforts to disguise same. A bit of gentle tapping with a smooth faced hammer will tell you if there is a lot of rot. I won't call myself a surveyor by any means but I've learned enough to determine on my own if it's worth a professional surveyor's cost.

Another issue is the way the cabin sides join deck. It looks to me like that is a joint asking for trouble. I've never pulled that joint apart but it looks like looks like the cabin side runs down past the deck edge, so leaks there and the both the cabin side and deck are saturated. More tappity-tap along that joint, both house and deck, is called for.

As you inspect the interior open all of the drawers, cabinets and slide outs you can to view the house to deck joint. On the Roughwater 41s I looked at it's a bunch of wood blocks used to fasten hull to deck. On one I could stick my finger into soft spongy wood on many of the blocks. I don't recall that joint on the 37s but it's probably the same.

That's all I can think of that in my experience is unique to Roughwaters. You'll still need to keep an eye out for all the old boat issues. Such as soft decks from improperly bedded hardware, old fuel tanks, old wiring and all the endless old boat stuff.

In the end I just couldn't find a Roughwater that wasn't going to be a huge expense to bring her back to shape for extensive cruising. Too bad because I love the looks and design. Especially the 37 though I was mostly after the 41 for living space.

Comments on doing you own pre-survey inspection looking for water damage.

Tap testing. Ask permission from the owner and broker before you start. And be sure to use a hammer that won't leave marks. I got a nylon hammer at Harbor Freight with no sharp edges. I'm sure a surveyor would rather use a metal faced hammer but as I said I'm trying to eliminate boats that are too far gone to be worth the cost of a survey.

You can use a moisture meter as well but without a lot of experience the results may not be accurate. Here are 3 links to well written pieces on the use of moisture meters.

Understanding the Moisture Meter on Marine How To a well respected source of information. This article is very positive on the use of moisture meters.

Next up is Moisture Meter Mythology from another highly regarded source. The author is not as positive about the value of moisture meters.

Quite a difference of opinion between these two experts. In the for what it's worth column I purchased the meter discussed in Understanding the Moisture Meter and used it on several boats I rejected. Then one day I wanted to see a boat but my meter was not at hand. So I dashed off to Home Depot and purchased a meter similar to the one discussed in Moisture Meter Mythology.

I have since compared the results from both meters used side by side. My recommendation is to buy the less expensive one. Keeping in mind that unless you are an experienced surveyor you may not really know how to interpret the readings.

And finally The Use and Misuse of Moisture Meters where you will find this "A major benefit of the moisture meter is in its use for locating moisture penetration areas around through-hull fittings and deck hardware. A quick check with the meter can find evidence of moisture around fittings with good assurance that there is a potential problem unless the item in question is pulled and at least rebedded with a marine grade sealant." So I keep my miosture meter to do annual checks on deck hardware bedding.

Roughwater (reply to Portage_Bay)

Thank you Portage_Bay. Great info. I always wondered on those glass to ply house connections why there wasn't some type of reverse lip in the glass (like a bath tub install where the bottom row of tile overlaps the tub so that last row is irrelevant in terms of sealing). Roughwaters are great looking boats but covered moorage is not an option for me so I am going to come up with another plan. Island Gypsy maybe or mvweebles (replied to me also) has a Willard 36... they look nice. The joy of kicking hypothetical tires. Thanks again.

Erik

I’d like to find out if anyone knows of a surveyor who has experience with Roughwater boats? I’d like to find a 1984 or newer Roughwater 41 somewhere on the Loop. I realize it is more likely to find expertise with this manufacturer on the West coast and I am willing to pay extra travel expenses for an expert I’d be comfortable with. Plan is to try and find a R41 that would need no or little work in order to be a half time live aboard while slowly traveling the loop. If I can’t find a RW41 that fits the bill before Winter of 2022, I plan to widen search to include Monk 36 trawlers. I have owned small boats most of my life. The thought of purchasing a trawler built in the 1980’s is a little overwhelming and any help with pointing to expertise is appreciated. Thank you.

Hiya John Newbie - check the post by Portage_Bay above - some good general things to look at on RW boats, and most late 70’s early 80’s Taiwanese made trawlers.
Finding a RW “expert” surveyor, or even one very familiar is tough anywhere. The good thing is the RW is fairly typical of the era Taiwan was cranking out fiberglass trawlers. So the fiberglass hull issues, cabin sides (cored) rot under windows, electrical issues and the Perkins Diesel engines are all pretty darn similar across the board. I’d look for a surveyor who has a lot of experience/expertise in the era/type rather than RW specific IMO.
My 1980 RW41 has a solid hull, topsides are in good shape and is mechanically sound. The rest (a long list of mostly electrical upgrades, rewiring, cosmetic maintenance inside & out and plumbing) are all things I do as time & money permit. The rest of the time my wife & I live aboard, cruise the Channel Islands (California) and enjoy the heck out of her.
Best wishes in your search!
Ed

Thank you Ed and Portage_Bay; Your information makes since and if a RW shows up in East half of US that appears survey worthy, I’ll find a surveyor with Taiwanese trawler experience. Good luck with your RW41 repair/upgrades, I appreciate your insight.

Rw41

Rw41

Nice looking boat, thanks again.

Hello everyone. I hope this thread isn't dead just yet. My wife and I just purchased a 1984 41' Roughwater. It has an 8.2L Detroit and i'd like to redo all my electrical including the engine. I was hoping someone on here had some info on this engine and possibly a wiring diagram. Thanks for any help.

dirtdiver1977 said:

Hello everyone. I hope this thread isn't dead just yet. My wife and I just purchased a 1984 41' Roughwater. It has an 8.2L Detroit and i'd like to redo all my electrical including the engine. I was hoping someone on here had some info on this engine and possibly a wiring diagram. Thanks for any help.

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Congrats on your new boat. You might find an engine wiring diagram on boatdiesel.com. You have to pay to join but it isn’t much. Good luck with a wiring diagram for your boat. We got one for our current boat from Formula but this is the first boat we have had one. If you don’t have them already buy some quality electrical tools, not cheap junk. You will appreciate the good tools if you have much wiring to do.

Comodave said:

Congrats on your new boat. You might find an engine wiring diagram on boatdiesel.com. You have to pay to join but it isn’t much. Good luck with a wiring diagram for your boat. We got one for our current boat from Formula but this is the first boat we have had one. If you don’t have them already buy some quality electrical tools, not cheap junk. You will appreciate the good tools if you have much wiring to do.

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Ok thank you for the info on the site. When it comes to tools I don’t do cheap…. Nothing but Klien for me when it comes to electrical. I currently work in the commercial solar industry so it’s much needed that my tools last.

dirtdiver1977 said:

Ok thank you for the info on the site. When it comes to tools I don’t do cheap…. Nothing but Klien for me when it comes to electrical. I currently work in the commercial solar industry so it’s much needed that my tools last.

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Congrats & welcome to the Roughwater world!!

1st, glad you are in the industry, quality & doing things right shouldn’t be an issue!

Wiring diagram for the Detroit should be easy to find, but, it’s a diesel! With no EPA crap or computers. So it’s wiring consists of the alternator, starter and sender leads for oil pressure, water temp & tach.

The boat itself? Yeah, I live on a 41’ RW and have a 35’ RW as a side project. I’m 99.99% sure there’s no original wiring diagram for these boats.

There might not have even been an original wiring plan…

Plus, a 40+ year old boat has likely been through a number of prior owners (rare exceptions I’m sure), each who’ve (often poorly with substandard wiring & connections) upgraded/added/removed electrical components, leaving a metric ton of unused legacy wiring to grow into an unrecognizable rat’s nest over the years.

So you get to reset the electrical service and make your own diagram!

Harmony805 said:

Congrats & welcome to the Roughwater world!!

1st, glad you are in the industry, quality & doing things right shouldn’t be an issue!

Wiring diagram for the Detroit should be easy to find, but, it’s a diesel! With no EPA crap or computers. So it’s wiring consists of the alternator, starter and sender leads for oil pressure, water temp & tach.

The boat itself? Yeah, I live on a 41’ RW and have a 35’ RW as a side project. I’m 99.99% sure there’s no original wiring diagram for these boats.

There might not have even been an original wiring plan…

Plus, a 40+ year old boat has likely been through a number of prior owners (rare exceptions I’m sure), each who’ve (often poorly with substandard wiring & connections) upgraded/added/removed electrical components, leaving a metric ton of unused legacy wiring to grow into an unrecognizable rat’s nest over the years.

So you get to reset the electrical service and make your own diagram!

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A rats nest is right when it comes to the wiring. I replaced a bilge pump and switch two weeks ago and the wires were all corroded throughout as they used plain copper stranded wire. From looking at other 41's I have noticed the electrical panels were behind the doors or where the wheel cables comes through. And that's what i'll be doing as well. Currently they are located on the side of the cabinet coming down the stairs of the pilot house. My 12yr old son has Autism and loves playing with switches so i have to find a way to secure them out of sight...lol. New Batteries will need to be bought as they are using 4 6v golf cart batteries and the main 12v starter battery.

The wife loves your 41' though.