The “Full-Service” approach.

"I must say I’m truly jealous of those who can afford to just let the full service yard deal with all of this @#*%!"

Maybe,,,, having lived aboard for decades ,in working boat yards, the only way to get the best job done is to have one of the top 2 or 3 boats in the yard.

These boats standout by their superb condition , and the yard only assigns the work to their most skilled workers.

The rest of the boats are just work orders.

No one questions building a hotrod or rebuilding a classic sports car in the garage over a period of 5-10 years... and then when finished, drive it around a couple of times a year.

My boat is that for me.

I'm like AusCan, I enjoy working on my boat, as much or more than using it.

JDCAVE said:

So I’m envious ...not of your vessel but having the means to outsource to a Full Service Yard.

The spectrum of the replies on this thread range from total DIY to none:
1) DIY because of financial constraints.
2) mix of DIY and outsourcing (my situation) because of finanacil constraints tempered by a recognition of their own limitations.
3) Some can afford it but still DIY many projects because either they don’t trust the capabilities of professional workers and their own expertise exceeds that of many professionals.
4) Total Full Service Yard/professional approach.

I was frightened of shop teachers in high school and followed a professional career in science. Boat ownership has been a major learning curve for me. I have been fortunate in being able to pick the brains of professionals in the area and former associates from commercial fishing and their contacts. This forum has also been quite helpful for advice. My son is quite capable on things mechanical. But there are a couple of “pending” projects that are on hold because of uncertainty and availability of my limited availability of my preferred contractor.

I’ve enjoyed the learning WRT electronics and have saved considerably with DIY on those projects.

Right now, I’m cut polishing my large hull and preparing to put on 2 coats of paste wax as well as preparing for bottom paint. I home my rotator cuff repair is up to the challenge!

Jim

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I am with you on this one Jim! I don't have the means to hire out the cleaning, cut polishing, polishing, and waxing. So far I have spent the better part of 3 full days and I am not quite at the half way point. I hope the old body holds up. Yesterday I came home literally exhausted
I also do most of my preventive maintenance as well. Some for "money saving" some for feeling confident that I "know what is going on".
Our good friends from Seattle hire out most of their work. Many ways to "get er done".

There are plenty out there that can do a better job than I can do but we just flat out can’t afford it. We’ll always do what we can and what we can’t do we’ll save up the money and pay someone or it just won’t get done and we live with it. We’ve looked at each other more than once and said in harmony “it’s just an old boat it’ll be ok” .

BandB said:

Wifey B: .............. if boating had to be DIY, we'd likely not be boaters.

I have other passions to pursue instead of working on a boat. Things I'm truly passionate about. Now, also passionate about boating but not working on one.

There are many ways to be boaters. We each enjoy different aspects. Doesn't mean one way is better than another or one boater better than the other. While you're DIY'ing, I may well be pursuing some passion of mine.

Click to expand...

We're on the other side of that coin. If we had to pay to have everything done, we could never afford to be boaters. We do as much as we can reasonably do ourselves and often extend ourselves beyond the comfort level of our skill set. We only hire out as a last resort.

Our passion IS boating. In no way does this mean we get any satisfaction from scraping, painting, compounding and waxing, fixing, troubleshooting. In fact, we don't. We generally dislike it tremendously. However, we love to boat, so it is the only means to that end.

Unfortunately we DO have other passions as well and often find the boatwork impedes on the time to chase those other passions as much as we would like.

RT Firefly said:

I would be ECSTATIC if I could find someone, ANYONE or any company that I could rely on to have work done in a competent, efficient manner. They would most CERTAINLY have my trade and $$.

Click to expand...

Since 1995 I've owned 9 different boats. During that time I've hired several mechanics, 2 or three electronics companies. 5 different boat washers, 3 different divers, etc. Had quality problems with most of them. Now, my support consists of a super mechanic, an expert electronics company, a fantastic boat washer/ compounder/waxer, & a diver who is the best I've ever seen. I pay immediately upon their job completions. I's not cheap but the work done is excellent! Just the way I want it and worth every penny.


I thank God for my financial status that allows me to maintain a well cared for boat.

Codger2 said:

Since 1995 I've owned 9 different boats. During that time I've hired several mechanics, 2 or three electronics companies. 5 different boat washers, 3 different divers, etc. Had quality problems with most of them. Now, my support consists of a super mechanic, an expert electronics company, a fantastic boat washer/ compounder/waxer, & a diver who is the best I've ever seen. I pay immediately upon their job completions. I's not cheap but the work done is excellent! Just the way I want it and worth every penny.


I thank God for my financial status that allows me to maintain a well cared for boat.

Click to expand...

Wifey B: Good for you in finding people you like and trust. I'm shocked at how many say they can't. I can only imagine price is involved and discount Dan doesn't save you in the long run.

I also often bring up nice boatyards and people are quick to say, "They just work on bigger boats" or "they don't work on boats the size of mine." I then ask "Have you asked them?" The answer is a blank stare and then I say "Well, how do you know then?" Seems to me an hour of work in an hour of work.

And I know for a fact some that I'm mentioned to work on smaller boats.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Good for you in finding people you like and trust. I'm shocked at how many say they can't. I can only imagine price is involved and discount Dan doesn't save you in the long run.

I also often bring up nice boatyards and people are quick to say, "They just work on bigger boats" or "they don't work on boats the size of mine." I then ask "Have you asked them?" The answer is a blank stare and then I say "Well, how do you know then?" Seems to me an hour of work in an hour of work.

And I know for a fact some that I'm mentioned to work on smaller boats.

Click to expand...

With all do respect Wifey B, your experience with boatyards is somewhat limited and your home area has a grossly disproportionately large percentage of large boats and yards to work on them. While you are financially able to pay for the work you desire, you are also located where you have a choice of boatyards that can do the work. Many members are located in areas where boating is seasonal, you may not have a choice of yards that can haul your boat, and do to the nature of seasonal boating many yards can't retain quality employees.

Ted

O C Diver said:

With all do respect Wifey B, your experience with boatyards is somewhat limited and your home area has a grossly disproportionately large percentage of large boats and yards to work on them. While you are financially able to pay for the work you desire, you are also located where you have a choice of boatyards that can do the work. Many members are located in areas where boating is seasonal, you may not have a choice of yards that can haul your boat, and do to the nature of seasonal boating many yards can't retain quality employees.

Ted

Click to expand...

Wifey B: 100% true. However, those I've heard make the comments are those in my area. They choose to use less reputable yards and mechanics and electricians because they think the large yards will not service them, without ever asking.

Where we are, we're obviously spoiled. A lot easier to run a successful yard here than in the frozen tundra lake of Green Bay or the Mistake on the Lake on Lake Erie.

Now while our seasons are 100% 70% rather than 100% 20%, we do still get discounts based on season. I know marina and yard life is rough in other places. At the same time I've been quite impressed by some I've seen elsewhere that have excellent reputations. As an example, what do you think of all the former Brewer yards?

O C Diver said:

With all do respect Wifey B, your experience with boatyards is somewhat limited and your home area has a grossly disproportionately large percentage of large boats and yards to work on them. While you are financially able to pay for the work you desire, you are also located where you have a choice of boatyards that can do the work. Many members are located in areas where boating is seasonal, you may not have a choice of yards that can haul your boat, and do to the nature of seasonal boating many yards can't retain quality employees.

Ted

Click to expand...

Ted, you're right on target in my case.

L

Greetings,
Ms. WB. I am one of those making disparaging comments about the service personnel in your area (Fort Lauderdale). The ONE issue I care to mention is the reputable firm I hired to service the injectors on our Onan generator.

Charged for parts NOT replaced. (Fuel shutoff solenoid).
Charged for items from an entirely different MAKE of generator: (Some sort of special sealant for a Yanmar engine @ $150/tube and for 2 tubes, no less), special "gaskets" (Yanmar), injection tube (Yanmar).


When I confronted the office with the "extras" all I got was "Uh, the mechanic must have made a mistake". At $120/hr? REALLY???? On top of all that, the generator would not run afterwards. I scoped out the problem with the help of Mr. Ski and now it runs quite well.



There are several other "reputable service firms" where I wasn't taken for quite so many $$. As I mentioned above I am QUITE able to cover expenses even @ $120/hr. but I insist on value for $$ which has been difficult for me to find in FLL. I have yet to have any negative experiences with stores (BOW, Lauderdale Speedometer, Sailorman etc.).



That being said, we DO have a good upholstery/canvas guy and an excellent yard (Lauderdale Marine) for hauling.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Ms. WB. I am one of those making disparaging comments about the service personnel in your area (Fort Lauderdale). The ONE issue I care to mention is the reputable firm I hired to service the injectors on our Onan generator.

Charged for parts NOT replaced. (Fuel shutoff solenoid).
Charged for items from an entirely different MAKE of generator: (Some sort of special sealant for a Yanmar engine @ $150/tube and for 2 tubes, no less), special "gaskets" (Yanmar), injection tube (Yanmar).


When I confronted the office with the "extras" all I got was "Uh, the mechanic must have made a mistake". At $120/hr? REALLY???? On top of all that, the generator would not run afterwards. I scoped out the problem with the help of Mr. Ski and now it runs quite well.



There are several other "reputable service firms" where I wasn't taken for quite so many $$. As I mentioned above I am QUITE able to cover expenses even @ $120/hr. but I insist on value for $$ which has been difficult for me to find in FLL. I have yet to have any negative experiences with stores (BOW, Lauderdale Speedometer, Sailorman etc.).



That being said, we DO have a good upholstery/canvas guy and an excellent yard (Lauderdale Marine) for hauling.

Click to expand...

We get our work done in West Palm, but some in Fort Lauderdale our employees and builders have spoken well of:

Rolly
Pipewelders
Cable
Royale Palm
Roscioli
Bradford
Scott Marine Power
Diesel Services of America
Marine Diesel Specialists
Apex

Now, I wouldn't claim any are 100% dependable, but in general good I believe.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
... but I insist on value for $$ which has been difficult for me to find in FLL.

Click to expand...

This is very important to me too - value for the money. I have received quotes for work from yards who do good work, but the numbers are stratospheric compared to what I think it's worth. But sometimes I pay because I want to off-load some projects.


What completely boils my ass is when I pay the crazy price and they end up doing it wrong, or breaking something else. Then I have to chase them down and get them to fix it. One of my rules of thumb is that the person who messed something up isn't really the person who you want to call in to correct it, since they obviously don't know right from wrong in the first place. Inevitably in these situations I find myself spending more time working with the service provider that if I had just done the work myself. I hire people to save me time, not to consume it and fill it with frustration.


With service people and product manufacturers, I've adopted a one strike rule. If the work isn't right, or the product doesn't work, or someone doesn't show up when they said they would, I'll give them one get-out-of-jail card. But after that they are dead to me, technicians get sent home, and products get returned. I think the only way to ever change the BS we all encounter is to just not accept it and push the problem back on them. And write reviews for the good and the bad. It's pretty hard for the schmucks to hide these days. If they are good, tell other people. If they suck, tell other people.

My Dad instilled in me the same ethic that he got from his father "why pay someone else to do what you can do yourself?"



In general, I am still haunted by that. However, I have also started to come to terms with the idea that there are some things that I want done, but I don't want to do it myself anymore. Drywall is a big one that list but I don't even mow my own lawn anymore. I pay someone to do it now. Yeah, I suffer in inordinate amount of guilt from it as well.


On the boat it is a same. Most stuff I do myself unless I simply don't have the time to learn to do it or have the time to do it myself. I typically will pay a guy to wash my boat a couple times a year when I simply don't have the time to do it myself. I always feel guilty about it however. I also have decided that I just don't care all that much if my boat is shiny. I'm too busy/lazy to wax it myself and too cheap to pay someone to wax it for me. So I end up paying to have it done every few years and live with a non-shiny boat most of the time. I'm OK with that.

BandB said:

Wifey B: As an example, what do you think of all the former Brewer yards?

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of them as "Brewer yards" until your post. I have no personal experience with any of them. While the 3 in Maryland may be good, they don't seem to have the "if you want the best, go here" reputation. Do you have experience with them as they seem quite a bit out of your area?

Ted

O C Diver said:

I wasn't aware of them as "Brewer yards" until your post. I have no personal experience with any of them. While the 3 in Maryland may be good, they don't seem to have the "if you want the best, go here" reputation. Do you have experience with them as they seem quite a bit out of your area?

Ted

Click to expand...

Wifey B: We've docked at quite a few of them and we talked to others there who were very pleased with the work they did. Also, we are friends with a Captain out of Newport RI who has used them regularly for years. I haven't heard anything negative although I'm sure some have had bad experiences.

"I'm like AusCan, I enjoy working on my boat, as much or more than using it."

You don't need a boat !!!

There are dozens on this board that would love you to visit ,,,often.!

I can afford to pay someone to work on my boat, but I'd rather do so myself so that I can use the money to retire earlier and/or afford more adventures before I die. I also enjoy being self-reliant and I think there's a tremendous peace of mind that come from having the skills, the tools, the knowledge, and the confidence to address almost any issue that pops up, wherever I am.



I think every boating day is precious and if I can salvage a day of boating by spending a few minutes of my time fixing something immediately, that's a huge win.

My last boating trip of the season in 2018 started off with a failed raw water pump impeller 5 minutes in due to a plastic bag blocking the water inlet on a stern drive. I had the tools, the skills and the spare parts on hand to get us underway again in 40 minutes, and we had a fantastic day making great memories on the water with friends who had never been on our boat before. If I had not been able to fix the boat then and there, the day would have been a huge disappointment. Incidentally, the friends that were aboard our boat that day are now fully vested into boating themselves, due to fun we had despite the breakdown.

twistedtree said:

This is very important to me too - value for the money. I have received quotes for work from yards who do good work, but the numbers are stratospheric compared to what I think it's worth. But sometimes I pay because I want to off-load some projects.


What completely boils my ass is when I pay the crazy price and they end up doing it wrong, or breaking something else. Then I have to chase them down and get them to fix it. One of my rules of thumb is that the person who messed something up isn't really the person who you want to call in to correct it, since they obviously don't know right from wrong in the first place. Inevitably in these situations I find myself spending more time working with the service provider that if I had just done the work myself. I hire people to save me time, not to consume it and fill it with frustration.


With service people and product manufacturers, I've adopted a one strike rule. If the work isn't right, or the product doesn't work, or someone doesn't show up when they said they would, I'll give them one get-out-of-jail card. But after that they are dead to me, technicians get sent home, and products get returned. I think the only way to ever change the BS we all encounter is to just not accept it and push the problem back on them. And write reviews for the good and the bad. It's pretty hard for the schmucks to hide these days. If they are good, tell other people. If they suck, tell other people.

Click to expand...

I am with Peter here. There are very few times I need to hire a pro. I enjoy the challenge and certainly save a great deal of money doing the work myself. However, the argument can be made that is does add a great deal of pressure and anxiety to boating as I try not to mess it up and impede the actual boating.


Anyway, My issue is that 100% of the time I am disappointed in major aspects (or many small ones) of the job the tech(s) are doing. I spend countless hours going behind them, often forcing them to undo stuff to get it right, and generally being worried that if I object too much, he will just mess it up out of spite or walk off the job halfway through. There is balance there for sure, but it is hard to find.


Then, as is always the case, they seem to either find something ELSE wrong, or we fall into the endless pit of "well, while you are doing this, we should go ahead and do this too". Thus, raising the cost and my blood pressure.


To me it is a no-win. Especially in Eastern NC where it is really hard to get good people to do good work. I WANT to help the small businesses and get a more personalized experience, but that is turning out so poorly for me. Unanswered emails... unreturned phone messages... no-shows... wildly inaccurate estimates... It make me want to scream sometimes. I may just have to either stop trying to do these projects, or open my wallet further than I would like and get big businesses like Jarrett Bay to do all the work I am unable to do... generally just fiberglass work.. (although I don't know they won't just follow the same model).

/rant

Tom.B said:

To me it is a no-win. Especially in Eastern NC where it is really hard to get good people to do good work. I WANT to help the small businesses and get a more personalized experience, but that is turning out so poorly for me. Unanswered emails... unreturned phone messages... no-shows... wildly inaccurate estimates... It make me want to scream sometimes. I may just have to either stop trying to do these projects, or open my wallet further than I would like and get big businesses like Jarrett Bay to do all the work I am unable to do... generally just fiberglass work.. (although I don't know they won't just follow the same model).

/rant

Click to expand...

I think that's part of the problem many are having, jumping from one small vendor to another, rather than going to those who have the people and the skills and the structure. As I read your first three paragraphs and then the first sentence of the one i quoted above, the first name that came to my mind was Jarrett Bay. I'm sure there are others, but if I was needing service in NC, the first two I'd think of would be Jarrett Bay and Bennett Brothers. Now, I have heard criticism of Jarrett Bay and the waiting time if not a regular customer of theirs. Still, fiberglass work is a great off season job I'd think they or anyone would love to have.

One difference I believe exists in the larger yards versus the small independent is in warranty of their work. With the small independent, if you have an issue, it's the same guy back to fix it. The one who messed up to start. With larger yards, they can escalate it to someone different and often more experienced. They also have the financial resources to allow them to stand behind their work.

As to opening the wallet wider, does it really require doing so? When you go with the types you outline, are you really saving money? Saving in labor rate only is beneficial if you don't require more labor or return trips and aren't deprived of the use of the boat.

I understand why many of you are frustrated with the service you get and as Diver pointed out to my wife, it's far more difficult in many areas. However, selection of yards remains critical wherever you are, if you choose to do one. Definitely, if a yard you choose does a lousy job then DIY looks even more necessary.