Simrad vs Furuno

Hi everyone, I'm doing a little research on behalf of my parents regarding their full electronic overhaul on board their 47 sabre. My father and I have boiled it down through various discussions with some industry experts and think either Simrad or Furuno would suit their needs. I'm reaching out to hopefully get some un-biased opinions (on an inherently subjective topic) on which product they should go with. It would be nice to hear from anyone who has installed either units to learn of their regrets, or success stories with either one.

I understand this is a loaded question, although would appreciate the insight!

Products looking to install:
GPS chartplotters (upper and lower helm (likely 12" and 9", respectively), AIS, Radar, autopilot, radios... the works!

Thanks, and happy boating!

Back when I didi this I already had some Furuno gear, old stuff but still functional as stand-alone. I ordered Simrad gear at a discount supplier online, who called me and asked if I really wanted Simrad. I asked why, and the answer was 'we are getting a lot of returns' (faults). Now that was 7 years ago, and probably is no longer true. However, in more recent times there have been complaints about Simrad not supporting older models, not sure if they have got their act together on that yet.

My Furuno 12" NN3D charplotter has been good, and I like that the Furuno radar connects to it simply - power and ethernet cable. The NavPilot has been excellent also. My AIS is Comnav, again, faultless, and integrated easily.

But for lower helm I prefer MaxSea (or Nobletec) navigator on a PC. Fully integrates with Furuno (they own 50% of MaxSea). Its really nice having a 24" screen at the helm! If doing it all again I would probably go Furuno BB for master and radar connection, and run PC screens as chartplotters at both upper and lower helms. Only the upper screen would need to be 'special' in terms of brightness and weather resistance, so it is a cost-effective solution.

Lots of good observations on TT's site. You might start here: Adventures of Tanglewood: Simrad Wall of Shame

Note the info is a few years old. No idea if things have changed since then.

Hulltruth electronics forum has a lot of good info. https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum-19/

willp said:

Hi everyone, I'm doing a little research on behalf of my parents regarding their full electronic overhaul on board their 47 sabre. My father and I have boiled it down through various discussions with some industry experts and think either Simrad or Furuno would suit their needs. I'm reaching out to hopefully get some un-biased opinions (on an inherently subjective topic) on which product they should go with. It would be nice to hear from anyone who has installed either units to learn of their regrets, or success stories with either one.

I understand this is a loaded question, although would appreciate the insight!

Products looking to install:
GPS chartplotters (upper and lower helm (likely 12" and 9", respectively), AIS, Radar, autopilot, radios... the works!

Thanks, and happy boating!

Click to expand...

Any reason you are not considering Raymarine? If you need everything I would consider Raymarine first. IMHO.

In 2009 we did a major refit. The boat came to us with a mixture of Furuno radar, Furuno "GPS Navigator" (sort of like a plotter but without the chart background), Cetrek greyscale (ugg!) chart plotter, Lowrance fishfinder, President (non-DSC) VHF, and Standard Horozin DSC VHF.

We started with a market survey to identify decent local installers, picked the best three, and then polled those for ideas about a more capable networked system, adding autopilot and AIS, standardizing the radios, and adding some redundancy for depth sensors. At the time, I mentioned I'd prefer a networking solution from (at least mostly) a single manufacturer, and I'd like to be able to keep the radar and existing "GPS Navigator" (for redundancy) if possible. All three installers zoomed in on a Furuno suite.

At the time, Furuno's NAVNet 3D was the greatest thing since sliced bread -- especially compared to the Cetrek's glacial redraw time... and MaxSea's Time Zero seemed a useful laptop counterpart to the plotter, more redundancy.

So we ended up with an all-Furuno system except for ICOM radios. Kept the old radar, kept the "GPS Navigator" (but moved it). Added NN3D plotter on an MFD-12, Autopilot, AIS, fishfinder (not networked) and separate DST sounder. And we run TimeZero on a laptop. Changed to two ICOM radios (so each radio works the same way); Standard Horizon was the other contender, and installer recommended ICOM for that particular year, sounded OK to me.

Even today, it's still a very decent system, can't think of anything more I'd really need.

Can't overlay the old radar output onto the plotter, though. Would have needed a new compatible radar for that and I was already pushing the budget, a lot. I usually prefer a separate radar display anyway, and I didn't want to give up screen real estate (by splitting) on the MFD so that's not a big detraction. OTOH, if I were starting from scratch, I might consider overlaying radar on the plotter and saving some helm space for all the various displays. Same with the fishfinder; at the time I didn't really want to clutter up the plotter... but since then then I've about decided I could live with that in order to arrive at a slightly less cluttered helm. (We only fish during a ~25 day season per year anyway, maybe 10-15 outings, more for shakedown after winter than anything else.)

At the time, networking needed a serious mixture of NMEA0183 and NMEA2000 protocols. Now, that might have migrated more toward NMEA2000, if so, probably a slightly simpler install.

We don't have "touch" screens (I would only abide that if accompanied by hard keys/knobs/buttons anyway) and we don't have any Wifi feeds. We don't have engine displays on the plotter; could do, but with mechanical engines, it'd take new sensors and wire runs (pain in the neck), and real estate on the plotter... We didn't do the Sirius weather sensor, no loss, for me. We didn't do a camera installation, ditto no loss.

If I had it to do over again, I think I'd be very satisfied with a Furuno installation. We've had Raymarine components in in earlier boat; would have been OK with that, maybe, but the installers suggested networking all the Furuno stuff together (and given our legacy equipment) would be easier. Can't speak to Simrad, though; no experience.

I've had to read the Furuno manuals to learn how to work everything. Folks talk about how "intuitive" Garmin systems are... but I'm about as intuitive as a rock, so when I've yutzed around with boat neighbors' Garmin systems, I haven't seen any magic there. They couldn't figure something out on their system "intuitively" and I couldn't either, had to get their manual out to figure out (for them) how to do something. And complex systems usually come with complex operating regimes. IOW, I don't see the Furuno operating instructions as being a factor one way or the other. For me.

Edit: I'll add a comment about Furuno USA support too... Good! I've only had a few questions over the years, but the combination of direct support and forum have been very positive. Most recent example was about replacing the old "GPS Navigator" GP-36 DGPS unit, since the 17 year old monochrome display -- with 9871 NM under its belt -- is losing some pixels. I wondered if the GP-39 WAAS-corrected unit would be a drop-in replacement, overnight answer was yes, all good.

-Chris

danderer said:

Lots of good observations on TT's site. You might start here: Adventures of Tanglewood: Simrad Wall of Shame

Note the info is a few years old. No idea if things have changed since then.

Click to expand...

The owner of Tanglewood, a TF regular, is one of the brightest marine electronics users out there. He will soon be outfitting a new vessel. His electronic choices and why will be a great read.

For whatever it's worth, my Furuno gear has performed well. My instrument guy stays on this stuff regularly. He prefers Furuno to Simrad. His focus is ease of install, dealer support, legacy support and call backs.

On commercial boats Furuno seems to be winner.

A totally unbiased method is to go down to the commercial docks and see what the guys that make their living on the water use... Predominately what I see are Furuno Radars, Depth finders, a computer based nav system, Comnav autopilots, Icom VHFs, and Morad antennas.

Ka_sea_ta said:

A totally unbiased method is to go down to the commercial docks and see what the guys that make their living on the water use... Predominately what I see are Furuno Radars, Depth finders, a computer based nav system, Comnav autopilots, Icom VHFs, and Morad antennas.

Click to expand...

I'm ex commercial,

sunchaser said:

The owner of Tanglewood, a TF regular, is one of the brightest marine electronics users out there. He will soon be outfitting a new vessel. His electronic choices and why will be a great read.

Click to expand...

I would trust what TT had to say about electronics...I have followed his posts for some time and to me he's a TF authority. The most telling at the link above is the picture of the big box filled with Simrad gear to be returned.

As stated, most all commercial and fish boats in the PNW use Furuno equipment. My setup is all Furuno except for Comnav autopilot and AIS.

I grew up on fishing boats in the 70’ and they all had Furono so I have been biased from a young age and knew I would chose Furono if I ever got the opportunity.

A majority of the long range cruisers and commercial vessels (people who travel much farther than me) have Furono and that includes newer boats as well.

I inherited An older Raymarine and a newer Gen Simrad on the past two boats. Both were fine, and no major complaints.

With the new build last year, I could have chosen anything. Went with Furono and it has worked very well and that includes quite a few overnight runs to the island last Summer when I could “test” it throughout the night.

With that said, I think all of the newer solid state systems by all of the manufacturers are reliable and work well based on the research I did, and poking around other forums. In particular, the forums frequented by sport fisherman who tend to have newer electronics gear.

Personal experience: Simrad has crap customer service. Furuno was a delight to work with.

I've got older Furuno gear on my boat; Navnet3D. Their support is indeed quite good. From what I hear their current models are likewise well-supported.

As for commercial use, yes they're popular in that segment. But bear in mind a commercial operator is going to have a lot of time to get familiar with how to use the gear. This may translate into a steeper learning curve for casual recreational users.

Raymarine and Garmin have had some trouble in recent years, what with various mergers and discontinuations of products. Are those rough times over? I'm not making any bets on that. But Garmin does have a good entry-level ease of use.

Your starting point is radar (and fish-finders/sonar). Because each vendor's system is proprietary. If you want Furuno radar, you're using Furuno chart plotters. Likewise with any other vendor.

As for dual helm stations, I like having the same setup on both. This avoids any mental adjusting when switching stations. Some folks are more adept at this than others but I personally don't like to an added layer of confusion.

But if you want features present on different vendor products and you have helm space (and budget) there's nothing preventing you from installing displays from different vendors. Chart/Radar from Furuno, Charter/Sonar from Simrad with both of them sharing all other sensors (depth, gps, engines, etc).

I should also mention that if you want Sirius satellite weather those modules are also specific to chart plotter brands. These days with smart phones and cell data coverage there's less reason to go with satellite weather. But if you're outside of areas with solid cell data coverage it's something to consider.

Sealife said:

Personal experience: Simrad has crap customer service. Furuno was a delight to work with.

Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think the functionality of Furuno is "all that". But their after the sale service/advice, and I mean WAY after the sale, is superb, and has been for a long time. So count me as a customer for life on all the basic gear. About the only places I might go non-Furuno would be Comnav for autopilot and Standard Horizon for VHF, both also have great product and service.

Go ask your local West Marine which units are getting returned for not working. Ours told me a few months ago that they were getting a whole lot of Go7’s and Go9’s brought back after just a few months. Furuno’s rep was good.

danderer said:

Lots of good observations on TT's site. You might start here: Adventures of Tanglewood: Simrad Wall of Shame

Note the info is a few years old. No idea if things have changed since then.

Click to expand...

I've been watching Simrad's updates and I don't think they have fixed ANY of the problems that I had. They did make some improvements in their MARPA performance, but only in new models. The products I had were abandoned by them with respect to support and updates, even though only a few years old.


So had I kept the equipment, I would still have all the same problems today. Ripping it all out was the right thing to do, in hind sight.


I'd also suggest you read CruisersFourum and TheHullTruth, and look at what happened when Simrad issues software updates. I have seem who suites of equipment rendered inoperable, or major components like depth sounders rendered inoperable. This goes on for months while they trickle out fixes.


The latest update rendered their wifi device brain-dead in some B&G systems, requiring that the devices be removed and sent back to Simrad for repair. They pulled the update, and I don't think have re-issued a corrected version.


And here's another clue. Look at which vendor is always selling "factory refurbished" units. Those are customer returns that were repaired, or were "no trouble found". This gives you some critical insight into their overall quality.

Vadim said:

Any reason you are not considering Raymarine? If you need everything I would consider Raymarine first. IMHO.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the question- like I said I was sort of doing this on behalf my father. We went to the Vancouver boat show, and spoke to some of the vendors (who are are furiously competing with each other), and got the sense that Raymarine was not at robust as some of the competitors. It seemed as though Raymarine lacked in other areas such as tech support, longevity, and overall hardiness. From these experiences, and chatting to other people in the field, his gut was leading him away from Raymarine. In my OP I touched on the subjectivity of this topic, which what I have just described is a perfect example of such.
Thanks a lot!

Ka_sea_ta said:

A totally unbiased method is to go down to the commercial docks and see what the guys that make their living on the water use... Predominately what I see are Furuno Radars, Depth finders, a computer based nav system, Comnav autopilots, Icom VHFs, and Morad antennas.

Click to expand...

I would agree, most commercial vessels are outfitted with Furuno. For a seasonal boater on a 1998 47' Sabre, don't you think full retrofit with Furuno is overkill? At least that was my initial reaction when he told me he was considering Furuno, so curious to hear what others thought..

Thanks to everyone who has posted. Quite overwhelming how considerate and generous everyone is with their wealth of knowledge and time to share their thoughts with me and the community.

What do you perceive as “overkill” about Furuno? If it’s cost, I think you will find all the vendors within spitting distance of each other for a system.

I think one reason people gravitate towards other than Furuno is for whiz bank new features. Furuno is slow to add such stuff, on only does so when it actually aids navigation.

If you want to run a boat, go Furuno. If you want the latest is stereo control, internet browsing, and flying your drone, consider one of the others

In the last 4 years I have had four new systems. The first two were Raymarine - fantastic did what they said on the box and great customer service. The last two are Simrad and Lowrance (same company). Fantastic did what they said on the box. Great customer service. The only minor problem with the Simrad system was the need to update the AIS using a windows laptop (especially as I am mac based) and updating the autopilot using a memory stick. Everything else was done using wifi. The simrad came with Icom - I would always go with them - the only thing they make are radios.

Little difference between the two. As to Furono - no experience so can't say.

willp said:

Hi everyone, I'm doing a little research on behalf of my parents regarding their full electronic overhaul on board their 47 sabre. My father and I have boiled it down through various discussions with some industry experts and think either Simrad or Furuno would suit their needs. I'm reaching out to hopefully get some un-biased opinions (on an inherently subjective topic) on which product they should go with. It would be nice to hear from anyone who has installed either units to learn of their regrets, or success stories with either one.

I understand this is a loaded question, although would appreciate the insight!

Products looking to install:
GPS chartplotters (upper and lower helm (likely 12" and 9", respectively), AIS, Radar, autopilot, radios... the works!

Thanks, and happy boating!

Click to expand...

===


We purchased a Furuno Navnet Radar/Chartplotter/Depth Sounder for our Grand Banks 49 about 15 years ago. I installed everything myself. It has been totally trouble free, and a truly excellent piece of gear. I chose Furuno because the vast majority of commercial boats have it and I know they value reliability. So do I. For VHF and AIS I'd probably go with ICOM. Our auto pilot is an old Robertson AP35 that came with the boat. It has not been completely trouble free but I've learned how to service it myself. It is basically a good unit but no longer available new.

I have Furuno TZTouch 2 15 inch in the pilot house, 12 inch on the fly, and wouldn’t go any smaller with my 60 year old eyes. The Furuno has been great, although they were slow to bring out some features, and I had trouble adjusting to the new cartography.

My vote goes for Garmin. Three boats ago I purchased my first Garmin unit and since then I’ve bought nothing else. Why? Ease of use and learning operation (made for dummies), no problems, great customer support when updating charts. Plus my dealer sells all the brands mentioned and the owner (he’s a friend for 30 years) told me to buy Garmin.

If I bought a new boat tomorrow I would go with Garmin again.

FURUNO hands down.
International support if you venture to foreign lands, and rock solid performance to begin with.

If I had to choose one integrated suite, it would be Furuno. In part because of TT’s extensive experience and review of the comparison between the two, but also because of Furuno’s support for their legacy products. And...there is considerable resale value in older Furuno products.

WRT legacy support: if I wanted to I could add MARPA to my 20 year old Furuno 1942 radar and/or I can replace the older CRT with an newer LED screen setup. And...a local supplier would give me a good trade-in on the old unit because of the resale to commercial fishermen for older units that they are comfortable with.

Furuno has terrific support

Several years ago, I managed to destroy the expensive antenna on a Furuno differential GPS for no reason other than my own stupidity. I sent it back to the service center, telling them it was my problem, not theirs and asked if I could purchase a replacement. They sent me a new one, at no charge!

I have been a fan ever since. Their stuff is very reliable and, as I said, their support is just first rate

Ex-commercial with Furuno sounder & radar, PC-based Plotter, Icom VHF and TMQ pilot. Vessel originally had 3 x Furuno sounders for serious fishing!

I've had no problems with any of the gear in 15 years so cannot comment on support. Both the sounder and radar are long discontinued models but work just fine.

Furuno's level of service is designed for those who depend on their product for their livelihood. We all benefit.

To me, it's really as simple as that. Their service is just above the others, while Simrad's trails the others.

We love Furuno's products and have never had a moment of disappointment. We did get Garmin in a Sunseeker, but only because the builder offered only Garmin, Raymarine and Simrad. For inland boating such as the loop, Garmin charts actually are a little better. However, when your choice is between the best versus everyone else, I'd go with the best, Furuno.

Other areas I feel they excel on top of customer service. They're so use to integrating with other products, they have ready answers. They don't tell you "the problem is so and so" but they're quick to say "oh, you need to change your settings in so and so to this and it will work fine."